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The hesitant role of Tomas Plekanec

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Old
08-30-2013, 03:23 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
Just because you don't think of Plekanec doesn't mean he's not doing good work. Simply put he was more effective on the PP than any other forward last year. In fact he had more points per PP minute then Markov did.

I don't think anyone has said he's the lynchpin of the PP. He's just an effective player that contributes to it. I know you want to see more Galchenyuk & Eller, so do I, but please explain to me why they should take Plekanec's minutes and not DD's.
I've explained it several times...but here we go again

1. This is a thread about Plekanec, not Desharnais
2. If you remove Desharnais PP minutes, then he might as well not dress at all

Desharnais to me is irrelevant...

All i'm saying is that I think Plekanec's minutes should be reduced, not eliminated, just to improve his efficiency over the length of a season. There's a reason why he always wears down towards the second half of the year and playoffs.

Now he's too valuable on the PK to reduce his minutes there, on the PK, it's CLEAR he's our best forward because no one has the sense of anticipation like he does nor the smarts...but on the PP, the Habs can afford to tick down his minutes (assuming someone else earns it) and spread it out among other more creative forwards.


Last edited by 417: 08-30-2013 at 03:32 PM.
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08-30-2013, 05:29 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I've explained it several times...but here we go again

1. This is a thread about Plekanec, not Desharnais
2. If you remove Desharnais PP minutes, then he might as well not dress at all

Desharnais to me is irrelevant...

All i'm saying is that I think Plekanec's minutes should be reduced, not eliminated, just to improve his efficiency over the length of a season. There's a reason why he always wears down towards the second half of the year and playoffs.

Now he's too valuable on the PK to reduce his minutes there, on the PK, it's CLEAR he's our best forward because no one has the sense of anticipation like he does nor the smarts...but on the PP, the Habs can afford to tick down his minutes (assuming someone else earns it) and spread it out among other more creative forwards.
I can't believe you've had to explain this about 27 times in this thread...

Plekanec's a great asset to this team, but he's not the guy you want centering your first PP unit or your 1st offensive line for that matter. What you want is a legitimate 1st line center and Galchenyuk should pan out to be just that. Plek's PP time might not be affected that much this year, but his offensive responsibilities should move to Chuckie eventually and then we'll be a contender.

Does anyone on here actually think we'll win anything with Plekanec as our #1?

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08-31-2013, 10:51 AM
  #78
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Plekanec's numbers last year compared to all Centers in the league:

Goals: 14, tied 11th
Assists: 19, tied 15th
Points: 33, tied 17th
+/-: +3, tied 18th
Faceoff %: 50.6, tied 59th
TOI Game: 19:12, 24th
Short Handed TOI: 98:42, 16th
Special Teams Pts: 15, tied 6th

Except for that faceoff stat, he sure looks like a legitimate top line center. Arguably one of the best 2 way centers in the league. Just because he's not a "sexy" pick like Stamkos doesn't mean he isn't the real deal.

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08-31-2013, 11:25 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by MsChanandlerBong View Post
I KNOW EH!? It's like 50% of faceoffs he does that and loses, obviously, and when he really tries to win them, he does much more often than not. I don't get it either.
I don't know what's up with that. I'm sure his coaches would have told him to buckle down on the draws. It's like he's been told to let them win the draw.

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08-31-2013, 11:46 AM
  #80
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Why do people assume DD is a PP specialist? His PP numbers aren't fantastic. Put him in 3rd line or 2nd line or whatever. Only use him ES and occasional PP and you'll get 40 points anyway.

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08-31-2013, 01:57 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
The day Tomas Plekanec becomes our 3rd line center, we'll be Stanley cup contenders.
agreed

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08-31-2013, 01:59 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by BadHabit View Post
Plekanec's numbers last year compared to all Centers in the league:

Goals: 14, tied 11th
Assists: 19, tied 15th
Points: 33, tied 17th
+/-: +3, tied 18th
Faceoff %: 50.6, tied 59th
TOI Game: 19:12, 24th
Short Handed TOI: 98:42, 16th
Special Teams Pts: 15, tied 6th

Except for that faceoff stat, he sure looks like a legitimate top line center. Arguably one of the best 2 way centers in the league. Just because he's not a "sexy" pick like Stamkos doesn't mean he isn't the real deal.
he is not a legitimate top line center and never was

he is a solid reliable center , as long as you dont want him to carry you anywhere he is fine but its GALCHY TIME TO TAKE OVER

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08-31-2013, 02:08 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Strik_IX View Post
I can't believe you've had to explain this about 27 times in this thread...

Plekanec's a great asset to this team, but he's not the guy you want centering your first PP unit or your 1st offensive line for that matter. What you want is a legitimate 1st line center and Galchenyuk should pan out to be just that. Plek's PP time might not be affected that much this year, but his offensive responsibilities should move to Chuckie eventually and then we'll be a contender.

Does anyone on here actually think we'll win anything with Plekanec as our #1?
agreed and Pleks is Pleks , what u c is what you get , he is a better Bolland , nothing wrong with that

Bottom line .... ITS TIME FOR THE GALCHY AND ELLER 1-2 PUNCH

this team is going nowhere this year as contructed , too soft upfront and our D is old , and has too many misfits

but upfront the Eller , Galchy era must start now at center

enough of this sheltering crap , or babying them in the lineup

DD is junk on the top 6 and no game for the bottom six and lets stop praising this guy who has no role on a good team , Pleks is fine but its like eating a happy meal for 8 years every day , you need a new menu

we have arguably the best 1-2 punch potentailly in years and with Pleks as a shut down 3 , we finally have a 1-3 as good as most teams

TO TO RELEASE THE HOUNDS

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08-31-2013, 02:29 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
agreed and Pleks is Pleks , what u c is what you get , he is a better Bolland , nothing wrong with that

Bottom line .... ITS TIME FOR THE GALCHY AND ELLER 1-2 PUNCH

this team is going nowhere this year as contructed , too soft upfront and our D is old , and has too many misfits

but upfront the Eller , Galchy era must start now at center

enough of this sheltering crap , or babying them in the lineup

DD is junk on the top 6 and no game for the bottom six and lets stop praising this guy who has no role on a good team , Pleks is fine but its like eating a happy meal for 8 years every day , you need a new menu

we have arguably the best 1-2 punch potentailly in years and with Pleks as a shut down 3 , we finally have a 1-3 as good as most teams

TO TO RELEASE THE HOUNDS
It'll be up to Eller and Galchenyuk to do that. Can't just put them there because we think they should be based on potential.
Eller was definitely turning it up toward the end of the season but I think he's getting a bit overrated here over the off season. Still needs to clean some things up. He's prone to some bonehead giveaways and penalties, needs to know when to hog the puck and when to pass..
Pleks is just better in every single aspect of the game except for hitting and shootouts, its that simple IMO. I hope that Eller will be better at some point but he's not yet. Who knows how much Galchenyuk will improve this year.

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08-31-2013, 04:01 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Dagistitsyn View Post
It'll be up to Eller and Galchenyuk to do that. Can't just put them there because we think they should be based on potential.
Eller was definitely turning it up toward the end of the season but I think he's getting a bit overrated here over the off season. Still needs to clean some things up. He's prone to some bonehead giveaways and penalties, needs to know when to hog the puck and when to pass..
Pleks is just better in every single aspect of the game except for hitting and shootouts, its that simple IMO. I hope that Eller will be better at some point but he's not yet. Who knows how much Galchenyuk will improve this year.
BOTTOM LINE IS THIS

right now DD cant carry both their jock straps , he doesnt belong as a top 2 center and we all know it

but these 2 look to have arrived so play them to their abilities , thats all I ask

give them some pp time and stop this DD first wave , where he was embarrasing last year and he is nothing more than a marginal overal player

Pleks is fine but he is what he is a 50-55 point player but he is 31 , make him the the shut down d , but Galchy and Eller have to be top 6

these guys outplayed the rest of our forwards last year in limited minutes

I would much rather have a 50-70 point each Eller /Galchy combo knowing they have 10 years left than hoping Pleks has upside which he doesnt

he is fine but those 2 bring more to the upside table

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08-31-2013, 09:45 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Exactly what makes him good on the powerplay, and why so many different wingers (and different kinds of wingers) still end up productive beside him.

And please, stop contorting the posts of those trying to explain Plekanec's worth to you into attempts to make him look "perfect", with "no flaws".
I've never used the words perfect or flawless. You've been around long enough to know he's been one of the Habs' most dependable players for a decade. As I remember, he was the Habs' top scoring center in the seasons he played on a line with Kovalev and A. Kostitstyn and hasn't been outdone since. Unfortunately for him, he's been saddled with less talented wingers.

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08-31-2013, 10:01 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by BadHabit View Post
Plekanec's numbers last year compared to all Centers in the league:

Goals: 14, tied 11th
Assists: 19, tied 15th
Points: 33, tied 17th
+/-: +3, tied 18th
Faceoff %: 50.6, tied 59th
TOI Game: 19:12, 24th
Short Handed TOI: 98:42, 16th
Special Teams Pts: 15, tied 6th

Except for that faceoff stat, he sure looks like a legitimate top line center. Arguably one of the best 2 way centers in the league. Just because he's not a "sexy" pick like Stamkos doesn't mean he isn't the real deal.
He'd be an elite 2C if we had a real 1C
He'd be a top 2-way C if his FO% was higher

He is a capable 1C if we had someone else who can take some of the defensive work load off him.

He's so valuable to this team, I don't get why he doesn't get more love.
His attitude is also to be praised for, he is such a hard worker, and never complains when he gets put in horrible situation such as no real wingers all season long.

How can we not love this guy

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08-31-2013, 10:02 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
How do you measure that? his production on the PP last year is one thing, but doesn't paint the entire picture. How many of those points could of been secondary assists?

I don't find Plekanec a particularily effective PP player, he's not the most creative player and there isn't a particular facet from his skill set that opposing teams have to take into account (shot, playmaking ability, etc) while on their PK.

The Habs, IMO, would be better served if one of their more creative players...say Galchenyuk benefited from additional icetime on the PP because he DOES bring a skill set that opposing PK units have to account for.

passing the puck to Markov who then tees up Subban for a one-timer, doesn't make Plekanec a PP specialist.

Plekanec is many things, but I continue to say he's very much overrated by Habs fans.
I think you're missing the point...there are 6 forward positions on the 1st and 2nd PP units. Plekanec year after year is either the most or 2nd most productive forward on the PP on the team. Whether you find him creative or not, or how much you question his offensive skill set, that is the truth.

If you are going to replace someone, as I pointed out before, there are plenty who as much worse on the PP than Plekanec getting 1st unit PP minutes that Galchenyuk could replace. I fail to see the logic in taking out one of the only working parts to improve a PP while ignoring all the broken ones.

Plekanec continues to be underrated, even by Habs fans. I imagine Eller will have the same treatment once he starts inheriting tougher ES minutes.

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08-31-2013, 10:31 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I think you're missing the point...there are 6 forward positions on the 1st and 2nd PP units. Plekanec year after year is either the most or 2nd most productive forward on the PP on the team. Whether you find him creative or not, or how much you question his offensive skill set, that is the truth.

If you are going to replace someone, as I pointed out before, there are plenty who as much worse on the PP than Plekanec getting 1st unit PP minutes that Galchenyuk could replace. I fail to see the logic in taking out one of the only working parts to improve a PP while ignoring all the broken ones.

Plekanec continues to be underrated, even by Habs fans. I imagine Eller will have the same treatment once he starts inheriting tougher ES minutes.
Great post!!

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08-31-2013, 10:42 PM
  #90
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Great post!!
I agree. Pleks get **** on so much because of the team's overall mediocrity the past 10 years. I treated Koivu the same way. I admittedly am not a fan of that generation of Habs though. I tuned out hockey around 96 until the lockout.

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09-01-2013, 12:22 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I've explained it several times...but here we go again

1. This is a thread about Plekanec, not Desharnais
2. If you remove Desharnais PP minutes, then he might as well not dress at all

Desharnais to me is irrelevant...

All i'm saying is that I think Plekanec's minutes should be reduced, not eliminated, just to improve his efficiency over the length of a season. There's a reason why he always wears down towards the second half of the year and playoffs.

Now he's too valuable on the PK to reduce his minutes there, on the PK, it's CLEAR he's our best forward because no one has the sense of anticipation like he does nor the smarts...but on the PP, the Habs can afford to tick down his minutes (assuming someone else earns it) and spread it out among other more creative forwards.
Plekanec seems to tire out by season's end because he's always carrying weaker linemates and handling the tougher minutes. He's had to drag along a declining Gionta, weaker defensive players or even grinders like Moen and Darche. Playing on the PP is not what wears him off.

It doesn't make much sense to take him off when he's one of our better players on the PP. You want to reduce his minutes, then do so by giving Eller more responsibilities at ES.

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09-01-2013, 12:35 AM
  #92
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One of the great things about Plekanec is that he is extremely competent in every role (PK, PP, shutdown role, offensive centre, etc.) so he could slot anywhere in the lineup at anytime. That being said, he should be our number one centre, with him and Eller slotting in as our number one and 2 PK and PP centres.

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09-01-2013, 07:19 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Plekanec seems to tire out by season's end because he's always carrying weaker linemates and handling the tougher minutes. He's had to drag along a declining Gionta, weaker defensive players or even grinders like Moen and Darche. Playing on the PP is not what wears him off.

It doesn't make much sense to take him off when he's one of our better players on the PP. You want to reduce his minutes, then do so by giving Eller more responsibilities at ES.
I wouldn't say he's 'dragging along' gionta, since he's the winger pleks produces most with and defends best with. In fact, pleks might be slowing down during the season because he only gets Gionta as his one good possession driving winger, which is why I'm in favor of playing maxpac with him. Keeping the puck in the offensive zone more would help pleks a lot, imo.

but you hit it on the nail in your last sentence. If pleks gets tired, it's because how this team decides to bend over backwards to give soft minutes out, thus leaving all the really tough ones for him. Dude's a ****ing trooper. Time to start giving Eller some of those tougher minutes to see how he handles it. Matchups are twice as easy when you have two lines you're confident in like that.

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09-01-2013, 10:08 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
agreed and Pleks is Pleks , what u c is what you get , he is a better Bolland , nothing wrong with that

Bottom line .... ITS TIME FOR THE GALCHY AND ELLER 1-2 PUNCH

this team is going nowhere this year as contructed , too soft upfront and our D is old , and has too many misfits

but upfront the Eller , Galchy era must start now at center

enough of this sheltering crap , or babying them in the lineup

DD is junk on the top 6 and no game for the bottom six and lets stop praising this guy who has no role on a good team , Pleks is fine but its like eating a happy meal for 8 years every day , you need a new menu

we have arguably the best 1-2 punch potentailly in years and with Pleks as a shut down 3 , we finally have a 1-3 as good as most teams

TO TO RELEASE THE HOUNDS
They have yet to show me they are ready to play against other teams top lines, Galchenyuk especially. As much as you'd like them to be, they aren't Stamkos, Crosby, Toews, Tavares, or Malkin.

They need more time to develop and the things they need to work on is what they can learn by watching Plekanec play. He is still by far the best 1C option we have.

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09-01-2013, 03:49 PM
  #95
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They have yet to show me they are ready to play against other teams top lines, Galchenyuk especially. As much as you'd like them to be, they aren't Stamkos, Crosby, Toews, Tavares, or Malkin.

They need more time to develop and the things they need to work on is what they can learn by watching Plekanec play. He is still by far the best 1C option we have.
he wont by years end

our star will shine # 27

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09-01-2013, 06:04 PM
  #96
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he wont by years end

our star will shine # 27
I seriously doubt he takes over the #1 center spot this year. You shouldn't expect it.

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09-01-2013, 07:17 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I've explained it several times...but here we go again

1. This is a thread about Plekanec, not Desharnais
2. If you remove Desharnais PP minutes, then he might as well not dress at all

Desharnais to me is irrelevant...

All i'm saying is that I think Plekanec's minutes should be reduced, not eliminated, just to improve his efficiency over the length of a season. There's a reason why he always wears down towards the second half of the year and playoffs.

Now he's too valuable on the PK to reduce his minutes there, on the PK, it's CLEAR he's our best forward because no one has the sense of anticipation like he does nor the smarts...but on the PP, the Habs can afford to tick down his minutes (assuming someone else earns it) and spread it out among other more creative forwards.
I'd actually like to see the opposite done, reduce his role on the PK, this is where he is wearing down, you don't wear down from playing PP minutes, your point is silly and contradicts itself. If your concern is limiting pleks icetime to keep him fresh for the entire season, your statement, not mine, then reducing pp time isn't going to change a thing.

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09-01-2013, 07:20 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Plekanec seems to tire out by season's end because he's always carrying weaker linemates and handling the tougher minutes. He's had to drag along a declining Gionta, weaker defensive players or even grinders like Moen and Darche. Playing on the PP is not what wears him off.

It doesn't make much sense to take him off when he's one of our better players on the PP. You want to reduce his minutes, then do so by giving Eller more responsibilities at ES.
Wish I would have read this before I replied, exactly this.

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09-01-2013, 08:41 PM
  #99
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Wish I would have read this before I replied, exactly this.
I agree, the Nucks getting Maholtra was what elevated Kessler from the league's best 3rd line center to a premiere 2nd line center. Pleks hasn't really been given the shaft and never complained.

He could have been putting up 10-20 points more a year in strictly an offensive role.

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09-02-2013, 11:18 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I've explained it several times...but here we go again

1. This is a thread about Plekanec, not Desharnais
2. If you remove Desharnais PP minutes, then he might as well not dress at all

Desharnais to me is irrelevant...

All i'm saying is that I think Plekanec's minutes should be reduced, not eliminated, just to improve his efficiency over the length of a season. There's a reason why he always wears down towards the second half of the year and playoffs.

Now he's too valuable on the PK to reduce his minutes there, on the PK, it's CLEAR he's our best forward because no one has the sense of anticipation like he does nor the smarts...but on the PP, the Habs can afford to tick down his minutes (assuming someone else earns it) and spread it out among other more creative forwards.
You seem to have everything backwards.

First, if you want a player to be more efficient and not wear down then you reduce the hard minutes not the soft ones.

Second, the PP is about skill, the PK is about commitment and communication. Anyone can be effective on the PK but not everyone can be a good PP player. In reality the drop off from Plekanec to a guy like Halpern on the PK is not very much.

Third, the Plekanec has consistently been one of our most productive forwards. You get reliable offensive production, by taking away offensive time from him you are either playing a worse player (Desharnais) or an unkown (Galchenyuk/Eller).

Fourth, if you take away Plekanec's PP time he'll score less. Doesn't that mean he'll be less effective? His totals will go down, his pts/min will go down, and he'll get just as tired because he's still doing all the legwork defensively.

You haven't explained once how Plekanec will be more effective with less PP time.

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