HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New Jersey Devils
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Kovalchuk: Would you accept him back? (Mod Note Post 293)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-01-2013, 10:21 AM
  #76
Bleedred
Ruutu means 2 MPH
 
Bleedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sign Tallinder!!!!!!
Country: United States
Posts: 54,258
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balance View Post
lol? I would love you to try to justify that since Kovalchuk was much better than Elias and Parise.
He wasn't very good last year. The 2013 Kovalchuk sucked a big one compared to the one we saw the year before. More posts and glass than the back of the net, and was a joke at even strength.

I don't think that's cause he sucked though. I think it's cause he didn't wanna be here.

Bleedred is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2013, 10:30 AM
  #77
Just Win
Registered User
 
Just Win's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: Germany
Posts: 11,771
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balance View Post
lol? I would love you to try to justify that since Kovalchuk was much better than Elias and Parise.
His point-per game average is barely higher than Elias in his time here despite playing way more minutes. And Elias didn't constantly lead the league in giveaways and plays good in all 3 zones.

Just Win is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2013, 10:33 AM
  #78
Aethon
12 Axes
 
Aethon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 34,258
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Win View Post
His point-per game average is barely higher than Elias in his time here despite playing way more minutes. And Elias didn't constantly lead the league in giveaways and plays good in all 3 zones.
Excellent synopsis

Aethon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2013, 10:39 AM
  #79
StvBroDan
vPLAY WITH HEARTv
 
StvBroDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 18,535
vCash: 500
Not a chance would I except the Russian back to the Devils, nor would the new ownership.

Edit:Ownership may if the price is way low,but we all know that would never happen.

StvBroDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2013, 10:40 AM
  #80
Basement Cat
Frank Drebin
 
Basement Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA!!!
Country: Poland
Posts: 11,477
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
The competition is not that great over there. He'll have to readjust to the NHL pace. Have you ever watched a KHL game?

Kovalchuk will likely be the best player in the KHL for a while, but I don't see him being as good as he was if he returns. Not saying he won't be any good, but I don't think he'll be worth taking back.
Yes I have watched many KHL games and I will tell you, it is still quality hockey. It is way above the AHL. He is not going to be playing with scrubs. The pace will be different but if he ever comes back, I have no doubt that a supremely skilled and gifted player like Kovalchuk will adjust without any issue.

And I never said that he would be as good as he once was when he comes back.

Basement Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2013, 10:48 AM
  #81
Hockey Sports Fan
:panic:
 
Hockey Sports Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 7,799
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Hockey Sports Fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Win View Post
His point-per game average is barely higher than Elias in his time here despite playing way more minutes. And Elias didn't constantly lead the league in giveaways and plays good in all 3 zones.
Giveaways have nothing to do with good or bad players or responsible/less responsible players. The guys who carry the puck most give it away most often, go figure. Until the league starts talking about giveaways in relation to overall puck touches, it's a number that is essentially meaningless, and lots of giveaways usually correlate with the best players/teams in the league that are relied-upon to carry the puck up the ice. Note that the NHL's giveaways stat doesn't differentiate between powerplay/PK/ES.

The rest of that's all pretty much spot on, though. Kovalchuk's not gonna get any more productive as he ages and he's never gonna be worth that caphit ever again.

Hockey Sports Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2013, 10:51 AM
  #82
Richer's Ghost
Moderator
McCleod is here
 
Richer's Ghost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: photoshop labor camp
Country: United States
Posts: 51,955
vCash: 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
You have to ask yourself though, what will his game be like after 4 years in the KHL?

I know a lot of people were in awe over his supreme set of raw talents, but the honest truth is he wasn't a very good hockey player in all facets of the game.

I can only imagine what 4 years in the KHL will do to his overall game but suspect it won't be conducive to any progress he's made in New Jersey.
Val Kilmer

Top Gun - Atlanta Kovy
Red Planet - NJ Kovy
7 Below - Post KHL Kovy

__________________


Richer's Ghost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2013, 11:25 AM
  #83
fortheloveof666
Resident soothsayer
 
fortheloveof666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dirty Jerz
Country: Angola
Posts: 14,316
vCash: 500
Arranged, not arranged, the dude has no heart. His own country wouldn't even send him to war, which not ironically, would probably be one of few times in his life he'd retreat to the defensive zone with any kind of determination.

fortheloveof666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2013, 11:45 AM
  #84
Aethon
12 Axes
 
Aethon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 34,258
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggers View Post
Giveaways have nothing to do with good or bad players or responsible/less responsible players. The guys who carry the puck most give it away most often, go figure. Until the league starts talking about giveaways in relation to overall puck touches, it's a number that is essentially meaningless, and lots of giveaways usually correlate with the best players/teams in the league that are relied-upon to carry the puck up the ice. Note that the NHL's giveaways stat doesn't differentiate between powerplay/PK/ES.

The rest of that's all pretty much spot on, though. Kovalchuk's not gonna get any more productive as he ages and he's never gonna be worth that caphit ever again.
Point on give aways is valid but it doesn't change the fact that Kovalchuk was turnover machine that made risky plays 5 or 6 times a game. His specialty was that cross ice pass high around the offensive blue line that led to nothing but trouble and put undue pressure on the defense. And the worst part about it was he usually just dropped his shoulders and sulked over his bad pass while the play was going the other way.

It always amazed how fans could watch this happen 5 or 6 times a game and then have their memory almost erased by a wicked shot in the top corner. During Kovalchuk's worst times in New Jersey his plays were responsible for far more chances against than chances for...and from my perspective that is not ever going to be a winning formula.

Aethon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2013, 11:59 AM
  #85
glenwo2
PATTY'S BETTER!!!
 
glenwo2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Jersey(No Fanz!)
Country: United States
Posts: 24,629
vCash: 500
I'd accept him back only to tie him up to a goal-post and shoot pucks at him.


Aside from that......NO.

glenwo2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2013, 12:19 PM
  #86
Aethon
12 Axes
 
Aethon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 34,258
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richer's Ghost View Post
Val Kilmer

Top Gun - Atlanta Kovy
Red Planet - NJ Kovy
7 Below - Post KHL Kovy
I didn't see the bottom two but I get it...

Was there ever a Tombstone Kovalchuk? Because I'd like to see that one.

Aethon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2013, 12:21 PM
  #87
Balance
Jesus is Lord
 
Balance's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,219
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Win View Post
His point-per game average is barely higher than Elias in his time here despite playing way more minutes. And Elias didn't constantly lead the league in giveaways and plays good in all 3 zones.
If you ignore the Maclean era Kovalchuk has a significantly higher PPG than Elias and by the way in the playoffs Kovalchuk doubled Elias' totals plus 3 points.

People always try to rewrite history when something happens and its just so common and I won't let that happen. Nobody, and I mean nobody, that understood the game well ever was saying that Kovalchuk was worse than any player here. Then, Kovalchuk leaves and history seems to somehow be totally re-written. Same thing happened to Scott Gomez and the same thing happened to Scott Niedermayer who somehow didn't deserve to have his number retired even though he was our best D-man for all those years.

Balance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2013, 12:24 PM
  #88
KaossKing
Pacing Well
 
KaossKing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Country: Scotland
Posts: 18,008
vCash: 500
any Era Kovalchuk = Heat

KaossKing is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2013, 12:33 PM
  #89
Balance
Jesus is Lord
 
Balance's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,219
vCash: 500
And by the way with the Elias thing, there a huge factor for their point production that the average fan overlooks. Elias benefits heavily in terms of points because of Kovalchuk. The 11 games that Kovalchuk was injured and Elias was given the top line spot he only had 1g 1a = 2 points in 11 games. Miraculously after Kovalchuk returned, Elias scored 5 pts in 5 games and Kovalchuk had 4 pts in those 5 games obviously meaning in the mind of an average fan that Elias was better during that span.

Yet if you really analyze it, you would understand that Kovalchuk plays a ton of minutes and faces the other team's top D-men and top lines. Why did Kovalchuk play so much? Deboer would throw Kovalchuk against the top lines so that even if he didn't score he would achieve in shutting them down with great puck possession. Then, Elias would directly benefit with secondary lines that played against him or the fact that the other team's D-men were worn down from defending Kovalchuk. As soon as Kovalchuk was injured and Elias had to do that, his point production severely dropped and the team lost a good second line to fill in the scoring. Everyone wasn't prepared in the lineup to make the jump and it hurt the team.

People criticize Kovalchuk's minutes and production, but it's actually quite amazing and helpful for the team as a whole. In those 11 games Elias was averaging 20-21 minutes a game and had 2 points. In 5 games with Kovalchuk, Elias averaged 16-17 minutes and scored at a 1.0 PPG rate.

Balance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2013, 12:34 PM
  #90
Aethon
12 Axes
 
Aethon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 34,258
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balance View Post
If you ignore the Maclean era Kovalchuk has a significantly higher PPG than Elias and by the way in the playoffs Kovalchuk doubled Elias' totals plus 3 points.

People always try to rewrite history when something happens and its just so common and I won't let that happen.
You know what is rewriting history, this whole "MacLean Era" nonsense. He was the head coach here for about 30 games....30 games that he had to start the season short of forwards, a roster full of rookies and scrubs and a defense that had only 2 returning player from the previous year....the roster was joke solely due to Kovalchuk's contract putting the devils over the cap.

30 games is the MacLean era...now explain how Elias out scored him this season playing around 100 less minutes. Maclean's fault?


Last edited by Aethon: 09-01-2013 at 12:40 PM.
Aethon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2013, 12:42 PM
  #91
fortheloveof666
Resident soothsayer
 
fortheloveof666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dirty Jerz
Country: Angola
Posts: 14,316
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
You know what is rewriting history, this whole "MacLean Era" nonsense. He was the head coach here for about 30 games....30 games that he had to start the season short of forwards, a roster full of rookies and scrubs and a defense that had only 2 returning player from the previous year....the roster was joke solely due to Kovalchuk's contract putting the devils over the cap.

30 games is the MacLean era...now explain how Elias out scored him this season playing almost 200 less minutes. Maclean's fault?


Ooohh, ohhh. MAClean. Bah, it's all relative.

fortheloveof666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2013, 12:43 PM
  #92
KaossKing
Pacing Well
 
KaossKing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Country: Scotland
Posts: 18,008
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fortheloveof666 View Post


Ooohh, ohhh. MAClean. Bah, it's all relative.
Gruber: "Zidlicky, shoot the glass!"

KaossKing is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2013, 12:47 PM
  #93
fortheloveof666
Resident soothsayer
 
fortheloveof666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dirty Jerz
Country: Angola
Posts: 14,316
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaossKing View Post
Gruber: "Zidlicky, shoot the glass!"


I was going to make the sandwich board reference with John MacLean but decided I'd probably get banned for that.

The Diehard references could go all day on this subject. haha

fortheloveof666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2013, 12:52 PM
  #94
Balance
Jesus is Lord
 
Balance's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,219
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
You know what is rewriting history, this whole "MacLean Era" nonsense. He was the head coach here for about 30 games....30 games that he had to start the season short of forwards, a roster full of rookies and scrubs and a defense that had only 1 returning player from the previous year....the roster was joke solely due to Kovalchuk's contract putting the devils over the cap.

30 games is the MacLean era...now explain how Elias out scored him this season playing almost 200 less minutes. Maclean's fault?
Another revision of history again. Let me explain to you what actually did happen:

Before the season, the 2010-2011 season was touted by people as the season where the Devils were a huge force in the league. Prior to that season I've never seen a time where a ton of newspapers/blogs were writing about the might of the Devils before then. There was 2 reasons behind it: The Devils were seen as a contender with the Kovalchuk trade but when they were eliminated by the Flyers it slowed down a bit even though the Flyers did make it to the SCF. However, the acquisition of Arnott created a great buzz because it stabilized a great 1st/2nd line for the Devils since the center position was always a problem. The resigning of Kovalchuk solidified it and the Devils were being ranked everywhere to easily be a cup contender and having the strongest lineup in years. This was true because in terms of the lineup the Devils had the strongest offense they had in a while. It was even to the point that Brodeur called it the best line up and when they had that initial bad start within the 1st 5 games he said it was time for "the machine to get going".

The best lineup in years somehow created one of the worst starts for a team in NHL history. How was that possible? The team only gained and did not lose anyone vital and with Lemaire as coach won the division title. The answer was simple: John Maclean. If you actually watched the games, you saw that Maclean employed no system. Every team in the entire league has a fundamental system and Maclean looked like a high school hockey coach out there. The team absolutely fell apart and had the worst beginning ever. This, coupled in with Maclean having no respect to his fundamental players (Scratching Kovalchuk), literally turned the locker room apart and had Langenbrunner traded to Dallas.

Somehow, Lemaire returned and the Devils not only stopped playing that bad but did a total 360! The team somehow won at a rate that they never won before, and the question was how is this possible? The Devils lost not only Parise due to injury, but they lost Langenbrunner to and it looked literally impossible that the team would have the ambition to play because a playoff spot was virtually impossible to get. Yet somehow, and someway the team put on the best record they ever had in a huge span of games and were 5 pts away from a playoff spot.

This was simple: The lineup was really good, and Lemaire gave them a system to win with. Miraculously, Kovalchuk scored more under a defensive system with Lemaire then he did with Maclean. So why do you not include the Maclean era? Simple: the guy was completely incompetent as a head coach. He took a really stacked team, and made them absolutely awful. Lemaire caused the team to show how good it was and Deboer did the exact same thing by sending them to the SCF.

If your calling the Devils team that put on the best record in their history in the 2nd half and the one that later went to the SCF the next year a bunch of scrubs, then you sir are not only rewriting history but embarrassing it too.

Balance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2013, 01:00 PM
  #95
Balance
Jesus is Lord
 
Balance's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,219
vCash: 500
I get that some people here aren't serious at all and try to post thing to be funny or create a reaction, but there was people here that read here because they are serious about the actual game itself.

I'm one of those people, and I don't adjust my opinions because of emotional reactions to players or coaches. I see it how it is, and only write a serious truth no matter who it attacks or promotes. I think people, who want to discuss hockey, want the truth about it? Kind of makes sense.

If someone in a few years is reading this (or reading this now) and reads the thing that some people post about years back, they would seriously believe in something that is unbelievably stupid. I think I do the right thing in not only writing what is true, but giving reasons back with facts and statistics. Thus, anyone could read what I write and understand the simple truth. That's at least what I do when I read things, I want to know why that is and to give me every single point. What separates me and others that aren't wrong is that those people post things with no evidence whatsoever to back anything up. You can give me the greatest and most true thing in the world, but at least back it up. You know why you don't see that though? It's because it's easy to back up the truth with good points.

Balance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2013, 01:01 PM
  #96
Bleedred
Ruutu means 2 MPH
 
Bleedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sign Tallinder!!!!!!
Country: United States
Posts: 54,258
vCash: 500
I agree, Maclean was the biggest joke of a coach I've ever seen in the NHL. When Lemaire came back he said the players were out of shape and that conditioning was not where it needed to be. The team was getting killed every night, and regularly spotting the other team a couple goals only minutes into a game. You also had embarrassing efforts like the Eric Boulton hat trick, and a few other embarrassing games like the game against the Canadiens in early December. The one when Hedberg was pulled after 2 minutes. John Maclean was an idiot coach, and he had no system at all. He was WORTHLESS as a power play coach as well. IMO he should have never even gotten that job. Having no system, and letting the players get out of shape is completely on the coach.

Now you can argue that it wasn't his fault, but the players just didn't answer for him. That they just wouldn't play for him, and it wasn't neccessarily his fault, but the players just didn't wanna play. In my opinion he was a worthless coach.

Big difference between the Devils team that regularly lost under Maclean (In embarrassing fashion) and the one that regularly lost last year.

Bleedred is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2013, 01:09 PM
  #97
Balance
Jesus is Lord
 
Balance's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,219
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
I agree, Maclean was the biggest joke of a coach I've ever seen in the NHL. When Lemaire came back he said the players were out of shape and that conditioning was not where it needed to be. The team was getting killed every night, and regularly spotting the other team a couple goals only minutes into a game. You also had embarrassing efforts like the Eric Boulton hat trick, and a few other embarrassing games like the game against the Canadiens in early December. The one when Hedberg was pulled after 2 minutes. John Maclean was an idiot coach, and he had no system at all. He was WORTHLESS as a power play coach as well. IMO he should have never even gotten that job. Having no system, and letting the players get out of shape is completely on the coach.

Now you can argue that it wasn't his fault, but the players just didn't answer for him. That they just wouldn't play for him, and it wasn't neccessarily his fault, but the players just didn't wanna play. In my opinion he was a worthless coach.

Big difference between the Devils team that regularly lost under Maclean (In embarrassing fashion) and the one that regularly lost last year.
When I watched the games I remember me just being frustrated the whole time not because they were losing but I would literally yell "WHERE THE **** IS THE TACTIC, WHERE IS THE SYSTEM?" Never had I ever done that for the Devils before, the team literally only played a system and I didn't get what was going on. Why was every line doing different things, why were guys never in the right place at all? I told people after the 5th game that Maclean is the worst coach I had ever seen and that Lou would get rid of him like he always did. I don't know what Lou was thinking, the guy literally fired coaches when the team still looked pretty good, and somehow he just let it keep going. I really can't understand it besides a connection Lou had with Maclean or something.

I really liked Lemaire but Deboer to me is a tactical master. Lemaire was really outclassing other teams with the system he employed and then the team played Florida and lost those games even though Florida had one of the worst lineups in the league. When Florida fired Deboer I couldn't help think that some divine force was helping the Devils and I just knew that Lou would pick him up and I know that a ton of people online who get good coaching were calling for Deboer here.

Balance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2013, 01:12 PM
  #98
fortheloveof666
Resident soothsayer
 
fortheloveof666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dirty Jerz
Country: Angola
Posts: 14,316
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balance View Post
I get that some people here aren't serious at all and try to post thing to be funny or create a reaction, but there was people here that read here because they are serious about the actual game itself.

I'm one of those people, and I don't adjust my opinions because of emotional reactions to players or coaches. I see it how it is, and only write a serious truth no matter who it attacks or promotes. I think people, who want to discuss hockey, want the truth about it? Kind of makes sense.

If someone in a few years is reading this (or reading this now) and reads the thing that some people post about years back, they would seriously believe in something that is unbelievably stupid. I think I do the right thing in not only writing what is true, but giving reasons back with facts and statistics. Thus, anyone could read what I write and understand the simple truth. That's at least what I do when I read things, I want to know why that is and to give me every single point. What separates me and others that aren't wrong is that those people post things with no evidence whatsoever to back anything up. You can give me the greatest and most true thing in the world, but at least back it up. You know why you don't see that though? It's because it's easy to back up the truth with good points.
Jesus christ, long-winded whining whilst putting yourself on a pedestal? Get the **** over yourself dude. And stop taking the internet so seriously.

In the grandest of schemes, if YOUR opinion - above all others - is so invaluable and important, you wouldn't be posting it for free, ad lib, on a ****ing hockey forum. I can only imagine how many times you slammed your fist on the keyboard with indignity because to you, the greatest point/truth sayer in internet history, didn't get taken seriously enough to satiate your clearly suffering ego.

Roll up that inferiority complex of yours and stuff it in your bleeding vagina and maybe you'll feel better.

PS- **** the Po-lice!

fortheloveof666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2013, 01:23 PM
  #99
Just Win
Registered User
 
Just Win's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: Germany
Posts: 11,771
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balance View Post
I get that some people here aren't serious at all and try to post thing to be funny or create a reaction, but there was people here that read here because they are serious about the actual game itself.

I'm one of those people, and I don't adjust my opinions because of emotional reactions to players or coaches. I see it how it is, and only write a serious truth no matter who it attacks or promotes. I think people, who want to discuss hockey, want the truth about it? Kind of makes sense.

If someone in a few years is reading this (or reading this now) and reads the thing that some people post about years back, they would seriously believe in something that is unbelievably stupid. I think I do the right thing in not only writing what is true, but giving reasons back with facts and statistics. Thus, anyone could read what I write and understand the simple truth. That's at least what I do when I read things, I want to know why that is and to give me every single point. What separates me and others that aren't wrong is that those people post things with no evidence whatsoever to back anything up. You can give me the greatest and most true thing in the world, but at least back it up. You know why you don't see that though? It's because it's easy to back up the truth with good points.
A ******** of words to say only your opinion and everyone who agrees is correct and everyone else is wrong.

And what facts and statistics are you talking about? I see none in here.

Just Win is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2013, 01:25 PM
  #100
CerebralGenesis
Registered User
 
CerebralGenesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 24,181
vCash: 500
you can be serious and not know what you're talking about... that would be worst than the people here for fun and posting for giggles.


CerebralGenesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:41 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.