HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Can this Team as built go farther than 11-12

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-02-2013, 08:21 AM
  #26
UAGoalieGuy
Registered User
 
UAGoalieGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Long Island,New York
Country: United States
Posts: 9,317
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by free0717 View Post
Can't help it. 6'3" tall, 230# all muscle. Fastest player in the league. Laser beam shot.

I believe he gets it and scores 20+ this year.
He is also just 22 years old and very raw. Still has some developing to do. He has the physical attributes but he still has to put everything together.

UAGoalieGuy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2013, 08:33 AM
  #27
White Plains Batman
Faceoffs? Faceoffs!!
 
White Plains Batman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Westchester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 2,919
vCash: 500
It's a very deep team that is lacking any real size on the wings other than Nash and Boyle. That will need to be addressed and might be if this team is a real contender. First they HAVE to play consistent or they may not even make the playoffs with this stupid new division/realignment format.

If Staal is healthy the D should be better this year than 11-12 and the depth has Falk, Syvret, McLIrath, Allen, Noreau, etc. all who are better than Bickell and can play 12-15 minutes if needed.

The offense and depth should be so much better. Just having Kristo, Lindberg, Fast, St. Croix, Miller, Hrivik all around is impressive and if some can win spots or fill in and can keep it up once Cally and Hagelin come back. Four very good lines. Dom Moore will help a lot and be used in many situations.

White Plains Batman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2013, 09:34 AM
  #28
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 16,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
the 2012 team had a LOT of luck go their way though. The injury bug stayed away for the most part, Lundqvist was out of this stratosphere from December to February where they won a lot of games, etc. I think this team playing to their strengths will be definitely a better team than 2012, our depth was **** then and it's better now. But again, like every SC winner, luck really has to go their way. So yes, I think this team can be better, but will it?.
You dont know this. Quite frankly nobody will until the season is in full stride.

I also find the downgrading of the '11-12 team in this thread to be awfully ignorant.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2013, 09:37 AM
  #29
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 16,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
I was waiting in line at the bank on Saturday. The guy in front of me noticed I was wearing a Rangers t-shirt. He looks at me and says Kreider is scoring 30 goals this season. I told him if Kreider scores 30 goals,the Rangers are winning the eastern conference. #1 seed in the conference. I would take 15-20 and be very happy.

The Rangers biggest bugaboo is goal scoring. They will need Stepan to continue his 13 play over an 82 game season. 75 point center. Nash to score 40. Callahan to score 20-22 when he returns after missing the first few weeks with the shoulder. Richards was on a 60 point pace in 13 and he looked terrible. He had 66 points in 11-12. Hagelin to chip in with 15. Zuccarello. Kreider. Hopefully JT Miller gets an opportunity.
...and they'll need to do that without sacrificing much of the defensive foundation they've built over these past few years. I have no doubt this team can score more, my worry is if it will come via a heavy sacrifice on the other side of the puck.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2013, 10:24 AM
  #30
Blue Blooded
Registered User
 
Blue Blooded's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,810
vCash: 500
I really like the look of this team to be honest. I'd go as far as saying that they are one of the most complete teams in the league, because their strengths mask their flaws.

First of all we (seem) have the perhaps most important ingredient of all, a great 1st line. A line that can be put out against any opposition and be expected to dominate both scoring and possession. Because they can handle everything that is thrown at them, the lower lines get a much easier ride. A guy like Benoit Pouliot has scored a ton from a depth role during his career. He could probably not handle top matchups, but because of our top line he can get the type of opposition that he has historically feasted on.

I did some analysis work on the 1st lines in the NHL last year and I'd put our line joint 2nd with Marchand-Bergeron-Seguin behind Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis, that's how good they were.

One would have qualms sending out a Kreider-Richards-Zuccarello or Pouliot-Brassard-Callahan line vs top oppposition, but with Hagelin-Stepan-Nash they won't have to worry about that and will get to play lesser matchups that they should be able to beat. With a worse top line our middle-6 could be a problem, but with such a strong top line it becomes a strength instead IMO.

Secondly, a deep and solid defence. We have guys who can handle the difficult matchups (McDonagh, Staal, Girardi), and we also have guys who can move the puck efficiently and put pressure on the opposition (McDonagh, Strålman). We have a guy who can play decently enough in a depth role who is great in the O-zone when he gets there, while his transitional game is lacking (Del Zotto). Our 6th D shows promise, but is a bit of an unknown at this point (Moore).

All in all, that should be a top team in the NHL concerning territorial play.

Then we add on Lundqvist, the top goalie in the league. With Hank in net we should only have to play the opposition evenly to win most games, as he should be counted on to put up a superior Sv% than the opposing goalie on average. Considering that our skaters finally should be capable of outplaying the opposition on a regular basis, things look bright indeed.

Our special teams are an issue though. Our PP sucks (despite having the best net-front guy in the league), and our PK has become mediocre after losing Prust, Dubinsky, Anisimov, and Fedotenko. Vigneault seems to understand that a functional PP is highly dependent on the handedness of the payers in the different roles and not just putting the best 5 guys out there, so I'm optimistic regarding improvement there. The PK should also improve with the acquisition of Moore and a healthy Dorsett. Calahan and Hagelin out to start the year will likely hurt though.

All-in-all, I think we will win the division and at worst place 3rd. We were 6th in the conference last year with some incredibly poor shooting luck at the worst of times. There is no way but up from there.

Plus, I don't think our possession game will disappear completely in the Playoffs with AV as it did under Torts.


Last edited by Blue Blooded: 09-02-2013 at 10:35 AM.
Blue Blooded is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2013, 10:55 AM
  #31
Raspewtin
NYR Stats Geek
 
Raspewtin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Howard Beach, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 22,073
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
You dont know this. Quite frankly nobody will until the season is in full stride.

I also find the downgrading of the '11-12 team in this thread to be awfully ignorant.
I don't, it was more of a prediction. And come on, who here actually thinks the 11-12 team was deep? Feds, Mitchell, Prust, Boyle, Rupp, and Dubinsky/Anisimov is not a good bottom 6 by any means. This year's blows them out of the water in terms of bottom 6.

Raspewtin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2013, 11:46 AM
  #32
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 16,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
I don't, it was more of a prediction. And come on, who here actually thinks the 11-12 team was deep? Feds, Mitchell, Prust, Boyle, Rupp, and Dubinsky/Anisimov is not a good bottom 6 by any means. This year's blows them out of the water in terms of bottom 6.
I dont agree until I get to see them play. Especially when it comes to the bottom 6, the look of things on paper dont mean much to me. It comes down to how the coach wants to deploy those guys and if those players are willing to accept and excel in those specific roles. We really dont know what AV is going to do, but we'll see.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2013, 11:57 AM
  #33
Hire Sather
4 MORE YEARS!
 
Hire Sather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 22,909
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Hire Sather
That bottom 6 played to their roles well. They got the job done.

Hire Sather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2013, 12:55 PM
  #34
OverTheCap
Registered User
 
OverTheCap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,045
vCash: 500
Tough to tell having not seen them play yet. Not many people predicted that the 2011-12 team would be as good as they ended up.

However, on paper alone, the team doesn't strike me as one that is championship caliber. Too many question marks offensively and there isn't much sandpaper up and down the lineup.

OverTheCap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2013, 01:32 PM
  #35
Bardof425*
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
This will be a good team. When you start with Hank and this D corp, you are on solid ground. It is up to AV to figure out how to get the PP going and how to use a team full of 2nd/3rd line tweeners. If he goes with Step, Hags and Nash as the first line, then he needs to find chemistry with

Brass and Richie as his next two centers.

I think Dom Moore will bring skill, smarts and sand paper. We forget how much he pissed us off when playing against us both because of his pestiness and his skating and skill. The wings are the question mark along with Richie. But there's alot to choose from.

If AV can figure out early who mans the second and third line wing positions and those lines produce we will be near the top of the league.

If nobody steps up then we will struggle to score and Hank will get us in as a 7th or 8th seed.

Bardof425* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2013, 01:34 PM
  #36
DMPD
Offseasons Greetings
 
DMPD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mysidia
Country: United States
Posts: 21,383
vCash: 500
Anything can happen. (TM) (R)

__________________
DMPD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2013, 01:48 PM
  #37
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 14,210
vCash: 500
Short answer: yes
Long answer: Of course

Right now, I'd say the same answers hold true if you ask "could this team miss the playoffs?"

Tawnos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2013, 02:00 PM
  #38
HatTrick Swayze
Tomato Potato
 
HatTrick Swayze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 10,336
vCash: 500
Lot of question marks. Really think the range of outcomes for this season is pretty wide.

Could see them winning the President's trophy - with Hank anything is possible. I also would be surprised, but not 100% shocked if they missed the POs.

Personally, I think we will be talking about team toughness in April/May again.

__________________
"Here we can see the agression of american people. They love fighting and guns. when they wont win they try to kill us all." -HalfOfFame
HatTrick Swayze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2013, 02:29 PM
  #39
nyrpassion
Vetted.
 
nyrpassion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Washington DC
Country: United States
Posts: 4,874
vCash: 500
damn, i still can't believe we got that close to a Cup Finals.

nyrpassion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2013, 02:30 PM
  #40
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 14,174
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Lot of question marks. Really think the range of outcomes for this season is pretty wide.

Could see them winning the President's trophy - with Hank anything is possible. I also would be surprised, but not 100% shocked if they missed the POs.

Personally, I think we will be talking about team toughness in April/May again.
As of now this is not a particularly nasty group. I think there's more quality depth which should help. There seems to be some more rounded types than last year. If all of Staal, Girardi and McDonagh are back in form and not injured--the D should be very good.

Last two playoffs have more or less ended the same way. Outmatched physically by the time it came to the end. 4th lines of Gionta, Bernier, Carter and Campbell, Paille, Thornton just ripping us apart. Rangers do need more edge IMO. They also need a pwp that makes the other team pay at least once in a while. But the team that starts the season usually isn't the same team at the end. There are going to be some trades before it's over.

eco's bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2013, 02:36 PM
  #41
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 14,174
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
I really like the look of this team to be honest. I'd go as far as saying that they are one of the most complete teams in the league, because their strengths mask their flaws.

First of all we (seem) have the perhaps most important ingredient of all, a great 1st line. A line that can be put out against any opposition and be expected to dominate both scoring and possession. Because they can handle everything that is thrown at them, the lower lines get a much easier ride. A guy like Benoit Pouliot has scored a ton from a depth role during his career. He could probably not handle top matchups, but because of our top line he can get the type of opposition that he has historically feasted on.

I did some analysis work on the 1st lines in the NHL last year and I'd put our line joint 2nd with Marchand-Bergeron-Seguin behind Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis, that's how good they were.

One would have qualms sending out a Kreider-Richards-Zuccarello or Pouliot-Brassard-Callahan line vs top oppposition, but with Hagelin-Stepan-Nash they won't have to worry about that and will get to play lesser matchups that they should be able to beat. With a worse top line our middle-6 could be a problem, but with such a strong top line it becomes a strength instead IMO.

Secondly, a deep and solid defence. We have guys who can handle the difficult matchups (McDonagh, Staal, Girardi), and we also have guys who can move the puck efficiently and put pressure on the opposition (McDonagh, Strålman). We have a guy who can play decently enough in a depth role who is great in the O-zone when he gets there, while his transitional game is lacking (Del Zotto). Our 6th D shows promise, but is a bit of an unknown at this point (Moore).

All in all, that should be a top team in the NHL concerning territorial play.

Then we add on Lundqvist, the top goalie in the league. With Hank in net we should only have to play the opposition evenly to win most games, as he should be counted on to put up a superior Sv% than the opposing goalie on average. Considering that our skaters finally should be capable of outplaying the opposition on a regular basis, things look bright indeed.

Our special teams are an issue though. Our PP sucks (despite having the best net-front guy in the league), and our PK has become mediocre after losing Prust, Dubinsky, Anisimov, and Fedotenko. Vigneault seems to understand that a functional PP is highly dependent on the handedness of the payers in the different roles and not just putting the best 5 guys out there, so I'm optimistic regarding improvement there. The PK should also improve with the acquisition of Moore and a healthy Dorsett. Calahan and Hagelin out to start the year will likely hurt though.

All-in-all, I think we will win the division and at worst place 3rd. We were 6th in the conference last year with some incredibly poor shooting luck at the worst of times. There is no way but up from there.

Plus, I don't think our possession game will disappear completely in the Playoffs with AV as it did under Torts.
Nash is the only legit 1st liner on the team--Stepan's knocking on the door. Hagelin is probably our best LW'er but to me he is a 2nd-3rd line tweener. IMO it's not as impressive as you're making out.

eco's bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2013, 02:38 PM
  #42
Barbara Underhill
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuke
 
Barbara Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montana
Country: United States
Posts: 13,352
vCash: 500
Aside from being the softest team in NHL history, I think they have a solid chance to improve upon last year, which equates to a finish similar to '11-'12.

Barbara Underhill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2013, 02:38 PM
  #43
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 16,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Nash is the only legit 1st liner on the team--Stepan's knocking on the door. Hagelin is probably our best LW'er but to me he is a 2nd-3rd line tweener. IMO it's not as impressive as you're making out.
Agreed.

But that de-facto first line is a minor worry compared to the next 6 spots at forward, which seem pretty messy.

Defense and goaltending look good though, as they have in recent years. How long until AV starts playing to his strengths as well?

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2013, 02:54 PM
  #44
KreidertheGlider
MDZ for NYR Blueline
 
KreidertheGlider's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 473
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
Secondly, a deep and solid defence. We have guys who can handle the difficult matchups (McDonagh, Staal, Girardi), and we also have guys who can move the puck efficiently and put pressure on the opposition (McDonagh, Strålman). We have a guy who can play decently enough in a depth role who is great in the O-zone when he gets there, while his transitional game is lacking (Del Zotto). Our 6th D shows promise, but is a bit of an unknown at this point (Moore).
You make it sound like Stralman is better than MDZ.

KreidertheGlider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2013, 04:14 PM
  #45
Blue Blooded
Registered User
 
Blue Blooded's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,810
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Nash is the only legit 1st liner on the team--Stepan's knocking on the door. Hagelin is probably our best LW'er but to me he is a 2nd-3rd line tweener. IMO it's not as impressive as you're making out.
I'm talking bout how they performed together as a line. Each individual may not be elite, but together they dominated last year.

hockeyanalysis.com has WOWY charts that lets you see how a certain player performed with and without each teammate. If we aggregate the pairings: Stepan-Nash, Stepan-Hagelin, and Nash-Hagelin, we get a pretty good estimate for how they performed as a line.

I did an analysis of the 30 top lines in the league 5v5 adjusted for zone starts, with the categories: Goals per 20 minutes (GF20), percentage of goals scored when on the ice (GF%), and percentage of shots attempted when on the ice (CF%).

Hags-Step-Nash had - GF20: 1.401 (2nd in the league), GF%: 81.885 (1st), CF%: 56.359 (10th).

Since it has been argued that forwards can control their on-ice shooting percentage but not their on-ice save percentage, I value GF20 the highest of the categories. Crosby's line blew everyone away with 1.804 GF20. We were 2nd with 1.401, Desharnais' line came in 3rd with 1.308 against soft competition, and a group of 6 came after in the low 1.2's.

So they were elite offensively, defensively, and good (for a 1st line) possession-wise.

Even if all the players were labeled with numbers and the teams with letters I'd come to the same conclusion: Hagelin-Stepan-Nash was a top-3 line in the league last year.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KreidertheGlider View Post
You make it sound like Stralman is better than MDZ.
Strålman was better than MDZ last year, at least in the transition game. Their situational use was almost identical (QoC and zone starts) and Strålman had a Corsi Rel. of +15.8, while MDZ managed -7.4. Del Zotto played more minutes, but Strålman performed a lot better in his.

Blue Blooded is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2013, 04:16 PM
  #46
ColonialsHockey10
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,041
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KreidertheGlider View Post
You make it sound like Stralman is better than MDZ.
As if he's the only one.

The flack MDZ gets on here is amongst the worst I've seen.

ColonialsHockey10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2013, 04:44 PM
  #47
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 14,174
vCash: 500
If we're ranking d-men DZ is above Anton but Stralman is a better right side defenseman that DZ--at least in his own end.

eco's bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2013, 04:52 PM
  #48
Hockeyplayer99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Country:
Posts: 357
vCash: 500
Rangers won't be close to that team from 2 years ago. They lack any sort of toughness now. IN the playoffs you need grinders, guys who will play physical. We have none, we are to soft to go anywhere in the playoffs. As the rounds go on, the physical play becomes more and more evident. Even the Ice Capades have more physical play then the Rangers. Get some big bodies willing to take the hit and willing to throw hits and then we have a chance.

Hockeyplayer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2013, 04:57 PM
  #49
Callagraves
Block shots
 
Callagraves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 6,373
vCash: 500
'11-'12 team had ALOT of things go right for them.

Potentially, this team could do as well, or even better.

But they need just as many bounces to go the right way.

Callagraves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2013, 05:56 PM
  #50
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 14,210
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
That bottom 6 played to their roles well. They got the job done.
No they didn't.

Tawnos is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:19 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.