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Round 1, Pick #11: Samuel Morin, Defense, Rimouski (QMJHL)

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Old
09-01-2013, 08:45 PM
  #526
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i think he become a top 10 defenceman 40-50 point season

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09-01-2013, 09:33 PM
  #527
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I know people have said, this but his absolute best case scenario is that he ends up top be a player like Chris Pronger. And I think the worst case is a Luke Schenn type player. Defensively he is solid and could be a total shutdown defenseman, but unlike Pronger, Morin's offensive are almost non-existant. Pronger was a PPG player in Juniors, Morin is not.

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09-01-2013, 09:39 PM
  #528
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Originally Posted by Tpinheiro4 View Post
I know people have said, this but his absolute best case scenario is that he ends up top be a player like Chris Pronger. And I think the worst case is a Luke Schenn type player. Defensively he is solid and could be a total shutdown defenseman, but unlike Pronger, Morin's offensive are almost non-existant. Pronger was a PPG player in Juniors, Morin is not.
I don't get how anyone could say that worse case scenario Morin turns into a very good top 4 d-man.

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09-01-2013, 10:17 PM
  #529
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I don't get how anyone could say that worse case scenario Morin turns into a very good top 4 d-man.
Indeed. The worst case scenario (even if you exclude injury) is complete bust. Every prospect has that kind of floor.

That said, a mix of floor and probability would likely say Morin is reasonably likely to be an NHL defenseman given the tools he already is advancing. If he continues to develop everything he already has at a solid rate, develops his physical tools more, and mentally keeps it together, a solid top 4 guy is certainly reasonable. From there, its all hopes and speculations. He has A LOT of development to be a top pairing guy, though just as the floor should include bust, the ceiling also needs to include number 1 defenseman at this stage.

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09-02-2013, 03:43 PM
  #530
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To use the HF methodology I think Morin reads as an 8.5D

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09-02-2013, 04:23 PM
  #531
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He got into a scrap the other night & then got thrown out for a cross checking major later in the 2nd period. The game in general was pretty wild going by the penalty summary.

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09-02-2013, 04:50 PM
  #532
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To use the HF methodology I think Morin reads as an 8.5D
That's exactly where I'd put him at. He has enormous potential, but he's such a raw player.

Honestly, I'm more interested in observing Morin's offensive development this season than I am about most players who are actually on the Flyers.

If his offensive game comes around, he will become a really hot prospect really quickly.

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09-02-2013, 08:49 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by Tpinheiro4 View Post
I know people have said, this but his absolute best case scenario is that he ends up top be a player like Chris Pronger. And I think the worst case is a Luke Schenn type player. Defensively he is solid and could be a total shutdown defenseman, but unlike Pronger, Morin's offensive are almost non-existant. Pronger was a PPG player in Juniors, Morin is not.
This is just not true. He may be developing more slowly than Pronger, who is a generational talent, but he scored a lot of points in the playoffs - which was a lot of pressure given he knew all the scouts were there to watch him. His game blossomed late this year, after a collarbone fracture. If you watch the U-18 highlights, he jumps into the rush, and is very comfortable playing give and go at the points on the PP.

I don't expect Morin to be a top point getter, but if he continues to grow his game, he will be big, fast and strong enough, along with talented enough, to play big minutes as an NHL Dman - which means top 4 minimum to me, hopefully top pair.

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09-02-2013, 09:17 PM
  #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tpinheiro4 View Post
I know people have said, this but his absolute best case scenario is that he ends up top be a player like Chris Pronger. And I think the worst case is a Luke Schenn type player. Defensively he is solid and could be a total shutdown defenseman, but unlike Pronger, Morin's offensive are almost non-existant. Pronger was a PPG player in Juniors, Morin is not.
The Pronger comparisons really need to stop. The dummies in the media here started it with really no basing (other than Morin being big & physical) & the fans ran with it. Even with the best case scenario Morin won't turn into another Pronger (which isn't meant as a slight).

If his puck handling & skating improves (to add on to his heavy shot which has improved greatly since his first year to last year) he could turn into a physical Tyler Myers type assuming every thing goes great in his offensive development.

His defense is further along in his development but even that needs some work. His footwork & positioning need work.

He's so raw right now (the scouts opinions are all over the place when it comes to his potential) that I'm not too sure you can say he's a lock to make the NHL even at a bottom pairing right now.

We should get a little bit better of an idea as to where he stands after this season. He's likely going to finish out his junior eligibility next year as well so it shouldn't be the end all of end alls this season if he doesn't make a crazy jump in his numbers but I'm hoping for at least an improvement even if its moderate.


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09-02-2013, 10:50 PM
  #535
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
The Pronger comparisons really need to stop. The dummies in the media here started it with really no basing (other than Morin being big & physical) & the fans ran with it. Even with the best case scenario Morin won't turn into another Pronger (which isn't meant as a slight)
It really is shameful that the local media did that. It is not fair to Morin or the fans. They don't care, though. They got a nice flashy headline for the newspaper.

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09-02-2013, 11:06 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
The Pronger comparisons really need to stop. The dummies in the media here started it with really no basing (other than Morin being big & physical) & the fans ran with it.
I know, but let's face it, the kid LOOKS just like Pronger on the ice. Same bearing, same skating style. He's more a ginger than blond Prongs, but he really does resemble him, so I completely get the comparison, and I think most fans realize Morin is never going to be THAT good....but I'm willing to be wrong on that.

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09-02-2013, 11:23 PM
  #537
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I know, but let's face it, the kid LOOKS just like Pronger on the ice. Same bearing, same skating style. He's more a ginger than blond Prongs, but he really does resemble him, so I completely get the comparison, and I think most fans realize Morin is never going to be THAT good....but I'm willing to be wrong on that.
I would love to be wrong as well but Pronger was arguably the best defensemen of his generation (either him or Lidstrom). It's setting the kid up for failure when writing articles with that comparison especially in this fanbase. It shouldn't be something thrown around loosely.

I see people on here throw it around & I'm not so certain if they mean style (which you could argue since Pronger was much more of a complete player at 17 than Morin was) or expectations?

I would honestly be happy if Morin turns into a top 4 defender who plays 20+ minutes a night with good defense & racks up 20-25 points a year.

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09-03-2013, 12:09 AM
  #538
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I see none of Pronger in Morin. His skating is much more fluid, but he doesn't dictate the game like Pronger did. That was what made Pronger great. Without that, you have nothing resembling Pronger.

Absolute best case scenario, you get a hybrid of angry Coburn and Tyler Myers. That's a hell of a combo, and I really think that could be his ceiling. His realistic projection though is something in between normal Coburn and angry Coburn. His low end potential is a Keaton Ellerby type. It's a wide range, but there's no denying the upside there. That doesn't mean he's anything like Pronger, though.

EDIT: Also, Pronger was a master of reading the game. Morin, from what I've seen, seems to be simply reacting to the play. He's going to have to fix that in order to be a top pairing guy.

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09-03-2013, 07:47 AM
  #539
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If you are going to compare Morin's upside to a future hall of famer, Pronger isn't the one. Zdeno Chara should be it. Chara's offense didn't develop until his mid-20's. Even now I wouldn't label Chara an offensive defenseman but he is productive. If Morin hits his absolute ceiling, I see more Chara than Pronger.

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09-03-2013, 08:08 AM
  #540
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I agree with LoD about the Pronger comparisons being an unnecessary anchor around Morin's neck. The upside of his defensive play is that he has the physical tools already, particularly fluid skating and good speed for such a big specimen, and is needy in the most teachable areas (footwork, positioning).

I'm glad, though, that Pronger is Morin's idol and mentor so Morin can set himself towards Pronger's all-ice vision and playmaking. Like hockeyfreak7 said, reading the play as it develops rather than trying to react will be an important goal and would result in Morin attaining a much higher overall game. Pronger can hopefully help Morin with intelligent stickwork (the legal kind) to interfere with rushes and block passing lanes.

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09-03-2013, 09:08 AM
  #541
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The Pronger comparions have never made sense at all. Pronger was one of the most heralded minor players ever and is a first ballot hall of fame defense man. While some players may be able to match or exceed his physical attributes as well as his skill level no one will ever be able to exceed the depth of intelligence on the ice. Pronger is the smartest player I've ever seen play the game.


If we are looking for a more realistic comparison for Morin, I'd say a more mobile Derian Hatcher. Morin is huge loves to fight and is a tough customer. I'll take that all day.

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09-03-2013, 09:16 AM
  #542
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The Pronger comparions have never made sense at all. Pronger was one of the most heralded minor players ever and is a first ballot hall of fame defense man. While some players may be able to match or exceed his physical attributes as well as his skill level no one will ever be able to exceed the depth of intelligence on the ice. Pronger is the smartest player I've ever seen play the game.


If we are looking for a more realistic comparison for Morin, I'd say a more mobile Derian Hatcher. Morin is huge loves to fight and is a tough customer. I'll take that all day.
Maybe the size of Derian and the hands of Kevin?

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09-03-2013, 09:51 AM
  #543
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For a young player I have to say I do like his attitude and for his size he has some decent skill although he'll need to hone those offensive skills. He should be a pretty good NHL player from the looks of it but who knows how good. Flyers need to develop him properly and not rush him. They should follow Nashville's example..

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09-03-2013, 10:33 AM
  #544
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For a young player I have to say I do like his attitude and for his size he has some decent skill although he'll need to hone those offensive skills. He should be a pretty good NHL player from the looks of it but who knows how good. Flyers need to develop him properly and not rush him. They should follow Nashville's example..
Well they have been pretty patient with their young defensemen as of late. Granted there hasn't been much to work with outside of Gus but even with him they've been patient, maybe even too patient.

Gostisbehere is another one, he probably could have been offered a contract this summer & assigned to Adirondack for this season but the Flyers opted to leave him in College by not offering him a contract.

I'm fairly confident they'll give Morin the time he needs just going by their comments on how raw he is. I think at the very minimum he finishes out his junior eligibility next year & then heads to the AHL for a season or two. He'll have to really wow people to make it in the NHL within the next 3-4 years IMO.

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09-03-2013, 11:47 AM
  #545
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Well they have been pretty patient with their young defensemen as of late. Granted there hasn't been much to work with outside of Gus but even with him they've been patient, maybe even too patient.

Gostisbehere is another one, he probably could have been offered a contract this summer & assigned to Adirondack for this season but the Flyers opted to leave him in College by not offering him a contract.

I'm fairly confident they'll give Morin the time he needs just going by their comments on how raw he is. I think at the very minimum he finishes out his junior eligibility next year & then heads to the AHL for a season or two. He'll have to really wow people to make it in the NHL within the next 3-4 years IMO.
Ghost has said he wants to finish all four years of college, and he might need that to fill out. Either way, I don't think there's a need to rush him with Streit signed.

I think Morin has two years of Jr. eligibility left before he's eligible to play for the Phantoms, he just turned 18 in July. Don't you have to be 20 before the AHL season starts to play? Happy for confirmation by someone who knows.

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09-03-2013, 12:22 PM
  #546
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Definitely let Morin develop for a couple years. Let his body mature into a man's body, right now it's still a growing, lanky, teenage body.

He definitely looks like Pronger in the games I've watched with him though, at least in the defensive end. He uses his stick and his body well and he has good positioning. He seems comfortable with the puck on his stick imo. All this will continue to improve and I can't wait.

I think Morin is the top pairing defenseman we've been waiting for. Hopefully our organization doesnt trade him away for a veteran rental in a year or two

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09-03-2013, 01:27 PM
  #547
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Don't you have to be 20 before the AHL season starts to play? Happy for confirmation by someone who knows.
That's what is (was?) in the NHL-CHL transfer agreement. I recall reading serval articles suggesting that the transfer agreement had expired, but see nothing recent on the issue. Absent anything specific and certainly based on observation, I would imagine that those rules are still in effect.

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09-03-2013, 01:48 PM
  #548
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my thoughts on morin

i think he will be a pre injury mark staal type dman, with prongers toughness-nastiness.30-40 point guy, 100 pm.

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09-03-2013, 04:18 PM
  #549
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Pronger is the smartest player I've ever seen play the game.


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09-03-2013, 05:05 PM
  #550
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Ghost has said he wants to finish all four years of college, and he might need that to fill out. Either way, I don't think there's a need to rush him with Streit signed.

I think Morin has two years of Jr. eligibility left before he's eligible to play for the Phantoms, he just turned 18 in July. Don't you have to be 20 before the AHL season starts to play? Happy for confirmation by someone who knows.
I'm talking about after this upcoming season & Gostisbehere also said if the Flyers approached him with an offer he would consider it but the Flyers haven't done that yet. I'll also take the Phantoms' strength & conditioning programs over Union's. He would likely spend the 2014-15 & 2015-16 seasons in the AHL if he left after this year so filling out wouldn't be a problem. I also don't see what Streit has to do with Gostisbehere playing in the AHL the next few years over College.

Morin will be AHL eligible for the 2015-16 season. After the 2014-15 season it will be his forth completed season in the QMJHL making him AHL eligible regardless of his age. He has two years left (2013-14 & 2014-15 seasons) in the QMJHL. That's what I meant originally but I guess I didn't do a good job of fully explaining it.

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