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09-03-2013, 03:12 PM
  #501
joestevens29
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Originally Posted by Gord View Post
I don't understand why anyone would pick a player as captain that hasn't even been on the ice or in the dressing room with the players. not even for one minute.
how can he be qualified to be the captain of the team? because he was a winner somewhere else?
please explain.
Tough to say, would anyone have been pissed off if Pronger was the captain when here? Ference has spent a lot of time here this summer and has gotten to know some of the guys, add a training camp and who knows

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09-03-2013, 03:15 PM
  #502
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Sam has finished 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 2nd in scoring over the last 4 years. Dont think that makes him the 6th best offensive forward.
Well stated Oilerman. I suspect these truths won't stop sparrow boy from continuing on with his made up "facts" though.

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09-03-2013, 03:30 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Tough to say, would anyone have been pissed off if Pronger was the captain when here? Ference has spent a lot of time here this summer and has gotten to know some of the guys, add a training camp and who knows
Ference would get my vote, Mature, has won, trains diligently, mentors, respected around the league, can lead on the ice with physical play and fighting if need be. What else would you want from a captain?



Yep, I'd want this guy leading my team considering what the other options are.

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09-03-2013, 03:51 PM
  #504
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Tough to say, would anyone have been pissed off if Pronger was the captain when here? Ference has spent a lot of time here this summer and has gotten to know some of the guys, add a training camp and who knows
I don't know. The Pronger type personality is the reason why many people don't want Hall to be captain.

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09-03-2013, 05:05 PM
  #505
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
Ference would get my vote, Mature, has won, trains diligently, mentors, respected around the league, can lead on the ice with physical play and fighting if need be. What else would you want from a captain?



Yep, I'd want this guy leading my team considering what the other options are.
Thanks for posting. I'm ready for hockey to start now! Ference would be an infinetly times better Captain than Gagner. If not Hall then Ference please.

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09-03-2013, 05:38 PM
  #506
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Jimmi Jenkins.

If reading wasn't a requirement for writing I would say you can't read.

Are you just trolling, or u serious bro?

"I'm not though. To equate the Gagner detractors to the people who are supporting him by suggesting the arguments they're crafting are on them same level is frankly just an out and out lie. It's a lie on it's face. The people who are supporting him are suggesting reasonable things, maybe of the post of detraction aren't of the same realm, it's Not close."

So your saying your right and everyone else is wrong. In that people who think Gagner stink are terribly wrong and people who think Gagner is awesome are perfectly right?

Gagner is not elite. He has obvious holes to his game. Just because someone else notices these faults, and dislikes his play disproportionally because of them, does not make them wrong. No more so than people who see Gagner's strengths, and love his play disproportionally, makes them stupid.

"Yes Hall is a better player on the ice, but you Assume a lot of the rest. So your own preconceived notions create this narrative, which may or may not actually exist. It's a flaw in your personal bias."

My quote you just somehow read and reposted without understanding: "We can only guess and speculate at the rest of the intangibles."

We as fans can only see the on ice product for which Hall is obviously very very very very superior. If you are suggesting Gagner would make a better captain because of the intangibles that you are assuming he possesses... Well then, I think we should all bow down to your wisdom and intimate knowledge of the situation. That is sarcasm btw.

And if you are assuming that the Islanders organization does not have a player besides Tavares of the captain type quality level of Gagner... You are one of the more biased homer/gagner posters on this board. Which is saying a lot.

There are literally well over 100 captains that have been picked over the years to be captain primarily but not solely because of their on ice leadership/production.

I would rather we took that route than going off the board and hoping for the best.

This is a preference.

I also think Smid, Eberle, and Ferrence would all make better captains than Gagner. But if Gagner was picked as I have stated before I would think he would be an ok captain as well.

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09-03-2013, 06:31 PM
  #507
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A very heathy debate, nothing real negative going on here (exceptions of course). This thread reminds me of the "Horcoff for 1st line" thread a couple years back. I argued that Horc was being put in a position to fail. Thier were many posters who defended Horc endlessly.... Lets not do the same to Sam.

It seems that some posters will support anything that comes out of the front office of the team (not that this rumour did). Missing the Playoffs for countless years and down right sucking as a team should allow us to voice our concerns.

From what I see on the ice, Hall and it's not even close. I don't know what goes on in the dressing room or lifestyle etc, so I'm willing to support somebody else but there really isn't anybody that sticks out like Hall, and he sticks out as a leader...

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09-03-2013, 06:38 PM
  #508
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Originally Posted by oilexport View Post
A very heathy debate, nothing real negative going on here (exceptions of course). This thread reminds me of the "Horcoff for 1st line" thread a couple years back. I argued that Horc was being put in a position to fail. Thier were many posters who defended Horc endlessly.... Lets not do the same to Sam.

It seems that some posters will support anything that comes out of the front office of the team (not that this rumour did). Missing the Playoffs for countless years and down right sucking as a team should allow us to voice our concerns.

From what I see on the ice, Hall and it's not even close. I don't know what goes on in the dressing room or lifestyle etc, so I'm willing to support somebody else but there really isn't anybody that sticks out like Hall, and he sticks out as a leader...
Don't get me wrong, and I'm a big Hall fan, but the org has expressed continual concern about players offseason habits and whether they come into camp entirely ready and prepared with healthy offseason training and lifestyle.

To this end the team has even hired a fitness guru coach who will lead by example and is already been communicating with guys on the team getting in their ear about their fitness regimen. It is my take that some players "felt their way into last season" and are not reknowned heavy trainers. I think the club has grown tired of this. Gagner, who trained hard in the offseason, and the results clearly showed, exemplifies in this regard what the team wants in terms of commitment. Its why they singled him out for praised multiple times last year and gave him extra assignments, trust and toi(more than any other forward) last season.

Its not just hockey talent, or what takes place on the ice. In management you reward those employees willing to go the extra mile and that will exemplify the direction that you want to go in as an org. What player is doing that more than Gagner?

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09-03-2013, 06:52 PM
  #509
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Originally Posted by oilexport View Post
[I]A very heathy debate, nothing real negative going on here[/I] (exceptions of course). This thread reminds me of the "Horcoff for 1st line" thread a couple years back. I argued that Horc was being put in a position to fail. Thier were many posters who defended Horc endlessly.... Lets not do the same to Sam.

It seems that some posters will support anything that comes out of the front office of the team (not that this rumour did). Missing the Playoffs for countless years and down right sucking as a team should allow us to voice our concerns.

From what I see on the ice, Hall and it's not even close. I don't know what goes on in the dressing room or lifestyle etc, so I'm willing to support somebody else but there really isn't anybody that sticks out like Hall, and he sticks out as a leader...
To the bolded: This is far from a healthy debate.

It's just a bunch of garbage comparing Gagner to Tebow, Calling him SS, stupid gifs, and some of the most inane ******** I've read.

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09-03-2013, 06:55 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by Tad Mikowsky View Post
To the Italicized: This is far from a healthy debate.

It's just a bunch of garbage comparing Gagner to Tebow, Calling him SS, stupid gifs, and some of the most inane ******** I've read.
Are you helping the dialogue. Are you offering anything?

People can join in a discussion, and effect a better discussion, or add to the noise. Each persons choice in each thread. We all get it wrong at times, just saying.

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09-03-2013, 07:09 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Don't get me wrong, and I'm a big Hall fan, but the org has expressed continual concern about players offseason habits and whether they come into camp entirely ready and prepared with healthy offseason training and lifestyle.

To this end the team has even hired a fitness guru coach who will lead by example and is already been communicating with guys on the team getting in their ear about their fitness regimen. It is my take that some players "felt their way into last season" and are not reknowned heavy trainers. I think the club has grown tired of this. Gagner, who trained hard in the offseason, and the results clearly showed, exemplifies in this regard what the team wants in terms of commitment. Its why they singled him out for praised multiple times last year and gave him extra assignments, trust and toi(more than any other forward) last season.

Its not just hockey talent, or what takes place on the ice. In management you reward those employees willing to go the extra mile and that will exemplify the direction that you want to go in as an org. What player is doing that more than Gagner?
Are there clear maturity issues with Hall ? I have heard of some (nightlife) stuff but ya don't like to knock a 20 year old who's just being that. It must be a muturity issue if Hall is not picked ?

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09-03-2013, 07:17 PM
  #512
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Are there clear maturity issues with Hall ? I have heard of some (nightlife) stuff but ya don't like to knock a 20 year old who's just being that. It must be a muturity issue if Hall is not picked ?
I wasn't referencing that. I'm just saying game ready shape. I'll be straight up here. Eberle is the worst for it. But I don't know that either RNH or Hall have been in peak condition and using best possible work out regimen either. Krueger hinted at it last year and singled Gagner for praise multiple times and using him as an example in so many words of what the club wanted the core players to be doing. Why would a club be stating that unless there WAS an issue?

ALL of our top picks need to be playing better, even including Hall. These are top draftpicks in the world playing together. They should fairly quickly be owning. They weren't even owning the AHL for the first month last year as they worked their way into shape. I would imagine the org thinks this isn't enough and expects more. I would say that the best players in the world should motivate to be the best. A tad bit of resting on laurels has gone on. Theres 3 forwards on this club that are obviously more talented than Gagner. But so far only one of them, Hall, is showing the same tenacity.

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09-03-2013, 07:18 PM
  #513
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Originally Posted by Tad Mikowsky View Post
To the bolded: This is far from a healthy debate.

It's just a bunch of garbage comparing Gagner to Tebow, Calling him SS, stupid gifs, and some of the most inane ******** I've read.
Not a bunch of garbage, there will always be garbage in any thread but most of this debate is rational. People will always have a little fun with posting...

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09-03-2013, 07:23 PM
  #514
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I think that a player who has difficulties fulfilling his role on the ice shouldn't be named captain.

Jason Smith didn't produce many points, but that wasn't his role.
Horcoff didn't produce many points, and that was his role - like it or not.

If a player doesn't fulfill his role, it causes distractions, and a captain shouldn't have those. I highly doubt Taylor Hall goes into a scoring funk, while the jury is still out on Gagner.

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09-03-2013, 07:31 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I wasn't referencing that. I'm just saying game ready shape. I'll be straight up here. Eberle is the worst for it. But I don't know that either RNH or Hall have been in peak condition and using best possible work out regimen either. Krueger hinted at it last year and singled Gagner for praise multiple times and using him as an example in so many words of what the club wanted the core players to be doing. Why would a club be stating that unless there WAS an issue?

ALL of our top picks need to be playing better, even including Hall. These are top draftpicks in the world playing together. They should fairly quickly be owning. They weren't even owning the AHL for the first month last year as they worked their way into shape. I would imagine the org thinks this isn't enough and expects more. I would say that the best players in the world should motivate to be the best. A tad bit of resting on laurels has gone on. Theres 3 forwards on this club that are obviously more talented than Gagner. But so far only one of them, Hall, is showing the same tenacity.
Thanks, I understand. The one thing that jumps out is as a captain you must do something well "on the ice". I don't think Sam does anything really well...Many Captains that lead must do this, rock solid Defence, Character guy, Offensive machine, nothing sticks out with Sam. Sam is average for a 2nd line Center...

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09-03-2013, 07:35 PM
  #516
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I wasn't referencing that. I'm just saying game ready shape. I'll be straight up here. Eberle is the worst for it. But I don't know that either RNH or Hall have been in peak condition and using best possible work out regimen either. Krueger hinted at it last year and singled Gagner for praise multiple times and using him as an example in so many words of what the club wanted the core players to be doing. Why would a club be stating that unless there WAS an issue?

ALL of our top picks need to be playing better, even including Hall. These are top draftpicks in the world playing together. They should fairly quickly be owning. They weren't even owning the AHL for the first month last year as they worked their way into shape. I would imagine the org thinks this isn't enough and expects more. I would say that the best players in the world should motivate to be the best. A tad bit of resting on laurels has gone on. Theres 3 forwards on this club that are obviously more talented than Gagner. But so far only one of them, Hall, is showing the same tenacity.
If Hall wasn't in optimum shape it probably had more to do with his shoulder surgery preventing him from training than a slacked training regime. This will be the first real healthy summer that he's had as a pro and I think he will take another massive step forward as a player next year.

Now onto the topic at hand I don't think Gagner would be a bad choice but I think I'd rather give it to Hall as it really is his team. If Hall isn't ready than I wouldn't be opposed to Ference taking it in the interim.

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09-03-2013, 08:15 PM
  #517
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Are you helping the dialogue. Are you offering anything?

People can join in a discussion, and effect a better discussion, or add to the noise. Each persons choice in each thread. We all get it wrong at times, just saying.
Hard to disagree with Mr. Kennedy here.

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09-03-2013, 08:52 PM
  #518
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Not sure if that was directed to me, but i don't really care cause I have that specific user on ignore.

I haven't attacked a poster, just the posts. I think most of the Anti Gagner arguments are just terrible.

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09-03-2013, 09:20 PM
  #519
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None of which is really relevant to whether or not he'd be a good captain.
Sure it is. If he isnt considered part of the core he has no business being the on and off ice leader of the team

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09-03-2013, 09:35 PM
  #520
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Sure it is. If he isnt considered part of the core he has no business being the on and off ice leader of the team
Thats not true. . Not at all.
But he is part of the core anyways.

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09-03-2013, 09:48 PM
  #521
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Thats not true. . Not at all.
But he is part of the core anyways.
Yes it is true, very true.

Is that all the SS fanboys can come up with.

"you're wrong, because I say so"

If he was seen as part of the core now or moving forward he would have been locked up long term at somepoint in the last 3 years. He wasnt. He is a poor mans version of our #1C, that is it.

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09-03-2013, 10:00 PM
  #522
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Yes it is true, very true.

Is that all the SS fanboys can come up with.

"you're wrong, because I say so"

If he was seen as part of the core now or moving forward he would have been locked up long term at somepoint in the last 3 years. He wasnt. He is a poor mans version of our #1C, that is it.
Whats actually funnier is the kids who use the infantile "SS", & "fanboys" and say stuff like hes not part of the core as if its a fact, and saying that if your not part of the core you cant be a captain.
Now thats funny.
To say nothing of the fact to suggest signing him for about 15 mil over the next 3 years doesnt suggest hes part of the core.
But thats funny.
But not as funny as the "SS" moniker& "fanboys".

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09-03-2013, 10:22 PM
  #523
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Whats actually funnier is the kids who use the infantile "SS", & "fanboys" and say stuff like hes not part of the core as if its a fact, and saying that if your not part of the core you cant be a captain.
Now thats funny.
To say nothing of the fact to suggest signing him for about 15 mil over the next 3 years doesnt suggest hes part of the core.
But thats funny.
But not as funny as the "SS" moniker& "fanboys".
You mean the deal that was signed at the last minute before arbitration? Ya core players do that all the time . Core players sign 6 and 7 year deals. RNH, Schultz and Yak will all do the same by the time they sign either their 2nd or 3rd contracts. Gagner just signed his 4th contract, and is entering his 7th season.

He is not a part of the core. He is a complimentary player to the core pieces of the team, and isnt a very good compliment to RNH as a #2C.

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09-03-2013, 10:41 PM
  #524
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You mean the deal that was signed at the last minute before arbitration? Ya core players do that all the time . Core players sign 6 and 7 year deals. RNH, Schultz and Yak will all do the same by the time they sign either their 2nd or 3rd contracts. Gagner just signed his 4th contract, and is entering his 7th season.

He is not a part of the core. He is a complimentary player to the core pieces of the team, and isnt a very good compliment to RNH as a #2C.
This is a great point. Boston signs Krecji and Lucic to 3 year contracts but their not part of the core.TB does a 4 year with St Louis.No core or him.
Numerous other examples.
Great point.

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09-03-2013, 10:44 PM
  #525
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This is a great point. Boston signs Krecji and Lucic to 3 year contracts but their not part of the core.TB does a 4 year with St Louis.No core or him.
Numerous other examples.
Great point.
How long would you expect Tampa to sign a 37 old player like St.Louis for. He had just finished his previous 6 year contract...


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