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Old
09-03-2013, 04:39 PM
  #851
VinnyC
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To be fair to Bergevin I don't think anyone thought Subban would even finish Top 5 in Norris voting, let alone win the trophy. Plus, the Habs were handcuffed by some bad deals at the time of the signing (Gomez, Gionta, uncertain Markov, etc.) so it's not like locking him up early would've been a good idea either.

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09-03-2013, 04:42 PM
  #852
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Here's some quotes!

Quote:
TSN Radio ‏@TSN1050Radio 25 Jul

Nonis: The 48 game season was a large sample. "I don't think we would have stumbled down the stretch"

Here's a quote two months later!

Quote:
Jonas Siegel ‏@jonasTSN1050 17m

Leafs want greater track record from Kadri before they commit significant dollars long-term. 48-game sample size won't cut it.
Go Kadri! Go Franson! Accept nothing less!

After what the Leafs did to us at the deadline, God I hope we can benefit from this clusterfauk some how.

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09-03-2013, 04:45 PM
  #853
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Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
To be fair to Bergevin I don't think anyone thought Subban would even finish Top 5 in Norris voting, let alone win the trophy. Plus, the Habs were handcuffed by some bad deals at the time of the signing (Gomez, Gionta, uncertain Markov, etc.) so it's not like locking him up early would've been a good idea either.
It's a tough call. Buffalo locked up Myers and the jury is still out as to whether he can live up to the contract. Montreal will undoubtedly pay a huge price for not locking up Subban. I suppose though that it does send a message to other young players that the team is serious about making young players prove themselves before handing out the big dollars. It also doesn't appear to have soured the club's relationship with Subban which is always a risk when players sit out part of the season and are forced to take a low short term contract.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Kadri in Toronto who will likely be forced to take a bridge deal as well. He may not take it as well as Subban did. Another guy to watch may be Hodgson in Buffalo.

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Old
09-03-2013, 04:46 PM
  #854
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Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
As with any bridge contract, you gotta see what the next one looks like before you can judge the deal itself.

Subban's might get really ugly, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest he'll want Doughty money (or better).
The real difference is Subban was coming off a decent year with depressed offensive numbers, so giving him a bridge contract was just $*&#ing stupid beyond belief. They probably could have had him for 4.5/5 a year on a 5 year deal. Screwing around with a highly talented offensive defenseman is just asking to get reamed on a contract.

Kadri is coming off an incredibly lucky season where he probably outproduced his play by 15 points in 48 games. Signing him long term to a Tavares contract would be really questionable in my books, but Nonis has backed himself into a redonkulous corner here. Love it.

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09-03-2013, 04:46 PM
  #855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
To be fair to Bergevin I don't think anyone thought Subban would even finish Top 5 in Norris voting, let alone win the trophy. Plus, the Habs were handcuffed by some bad deals at the time of the signing (Gomez, Gionta, uncertain Markov, etc.) so it's not like locking him up early would've been a good idea either.
That would be fair had he not handed out a $3.5M/4yrs contract to Deharnais after one good season, in essence completely contradicting himself. Subban's demands were also quite reasonable - rumored to be in $5-5.5M/5yrs bracket. Basically he wanted Edler's contract and now Montreal could be looking to pay him upwards of $8M. That is a horrible lack of foresight.

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Old
09-03-2013, 04:47 PM
  #856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
Here's some quotes!




Here's a quote two months later!



Go Kadri! Go Franson! Accept nothing less!

After what the Leafs did to us at the deadline, God I hope we can benefit from this clusterfauk some how.
Booth + pick for Kadri?

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09-03-2013, 04:52 PM
  #857
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Apparently, on the TSN 1050, Dreger said Jonathan Bernier could play his way onto Team Canada and many believe this as a realistic option.
I just about choked on my coffee I laughed so hard at this.

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09-03-2013, 04:52 PM
  #858
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Booth + pick for Kadri?
I was thinking more of an indirect benefit, like how we got Ehrhoff because of the domino affect of Heatly wanting out of Ottawa. But I'd love to turn Tanev + something into Franson, however unlikely that is.


Last edited by Wisp: 09-03-2013 at 04:59 PM.
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Old
09-03-2013, 05:02 PM
  #859
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Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
To be fair to Bergevin I don't think anyone thought Subban would even finish Top 5 in Norris voting, let alone win the trophy. Plus, the Habs were handcuffed by some bad deals at the time of the signing (Gomez, Gionta, uncertain Markov, etc.) so it's not like locking him up early would've been a good idea either.
Maybe. But you're playing with fire if you take a talented guy like that and give him a chance to make you pay through the nose. PK Subban looks like he might be a 6+% shooter from the blue line (no kidding -- look at his shot?), which is relatively rare. Shea Weber doesn't play like that from the blue line. Subban is a great skater, in ridiculously good shape, and, most importantly, he has a one-timer that you very rarely see. That last one is important because it means he's going to feast on the PP. Heck, the year before he didn't have much luck shooting, but he was still around a .5PPG guy.

Not only that, but they signed that deal before a shortened season, where it's far more likely that a player might outperform his peripheral numbers. I didn't get that contract at all when it was signed, and to me it was a potentially crippling rookie mistake for Bergevin. That could cost the Habs 10+ million dollars on a 5 year deal. Heck, Subban will probably want an 8 year 64 million dollar contract if he has another good season.

Edit: I never understood any of the negativity around Subban and his apparently brashness. I think if the... situation was different, he'd just be seen as a good Canadian kid having some fun and making waves. He was treated like an honorary Russian... for some reason


Last edited by Proto: 09-03-2013 at 05:08 PM.
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Old
09-03-2013, 05:03 PM
  #860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
I just about choked on my coffee I laughed so hard at this.
You and me both. Saw it on the Leafs board while scrolling down and nearly fell off my chair.

I know Dreger is a shill for the Leafs, but come on.

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Old
09-03-2013, 05:09 PM
  #861
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
You and me both. Saw it on the Leafs board while scrolling down and nearly fell off my chair.

I know Dreger is a shill for the Leafs, but come on.
You have to love the Toronto media, especially in September before the Leafs start to fall.
I'm not sure that Bernier even takes the top job from Reimer in Toronto.
Olympics? Not a chance.

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Old
09-03-2013, 05:16 PM
  #862
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You have to love the Toronto media, especially in September before the Leafs start to fall.
I'm not sure that Bernier even takes the top job from Reimer in Toronto.
Olympics? Not a chance.
Inb4 Reimer has a realistic chance to start for Team Canada

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09-03-2013, 05:35 PM
  #863
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Leafs just don't know when to close their mouths and develop goalies. After Reimer's decent season fans start calling him 'Optimus Reim' and the team annoints him the starter. Even at their post season press conference they called him the starter for the next season. Tell an early 20s goaltender, 'don't worry kid, it may be April, but you're our starter in October!" Should have left him hungry and brought in a veteran to battle him in camp. They didn't. They brought their saviour (Reimer) into camp after an offseason of being the man, and he was hurt 5 games in and didn't really play well after that. Which led to them trading for Jonathan Bernier... Whom before their first skate, is being talked about as the starter for team Canada? These guys really need some work on handling goaltenders. Reimer is an average goalie, with a great attitude. Should have brought in a vet and groomed him into a really good back-up. Instead they set him up to fail and when he does bring in a completley unproven, over-hyped youngster to battle him. It's madness...

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Old
09-03-2013, 06:39 PM
  #864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
You and me both. Saw it on the Leafs board while scrolling down and nearly fell off my chair.

I know Dreger is a shill for the Leafs, but come on.
Since Nonis' hiring as Leafs GM, Dreger has become unbearable. He's lost all credibility in my eyes, and does not act remotely professional anymore.

To think he was once considered on par with Bob McKenzie.

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Old
09-03-2013, 06:49 PM
  #865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevecanuck16 View Post
Since Nonis' hiring as Leafs GM, Dreger has become unbearable. He's lost all credibility in my eyes, and does not act remotely professional anymore.

To think he was once considered on par with Bob McKenzie.
Well, according to Darren Dreger anyway.

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09-03-2013, 06:52 PM
  #866
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
Leafs just don't know when to close their mouths and develop goalies. After Reimer's decent season fans start calling him 'Optimus Reim' and the team annoints him the starter. Even at their post season press conference they called him the starter for the next season. Tell an early 20s goaltender, 'don't worry kid, it may be April, but you're our starter in October!" Should have left him hungry and brought in a veteran to battle him in camp. They didn't. They brought their saviour (Reimer) into camp after an offseason of being the man, and he was hurt 5 games in and didn't really play well after that. Which led to them trading for Jonathan Bernier... Whom before their first skate, is being talked about as the starter for team Canada? These guys really need some work on handling goaltenders. Reimer is an average goalie, with a great attitude. Should have brought in a vet and groomed him into a really good back-up. Instead they set him up to fail and when he does bring in a completley unproven, over-hyped youngster to battle him. It's madness...
How goalies should be treated is a topic a Canucks fan might be careful opining upon. heh.

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09-03-2013, 07:05 PM
  #867
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the Jonathan Bernier...who doesn't even have 82 starts in the NHL.....that Bernier....

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09-03-2013, 07:23 PM
  #868
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Apparently, on the TSN 1050, Dreger said Jonathan Bernier could play his way onto Team Canada and many believe this as a realistic option.
"Many" being the Leafs front office, I presume.

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09-03-2013, 08:41 PM
  #869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
Maybe. But you're playing with fire if you take a talented guy like that and give him a chance to make you pay through the nose. PK Subban looks like he might be a 6+% shooter from the blue line (no kidding -- look at his shot?), which is relatively rare. Shea Weber doesn't play like that from the blue line. Subban is a great skater, in ridiculously good shape, and, most importantly, he has a one-timer that you very rarely see. That last one is important because it means he's going to feast on the PP. Heck, the year before he didn't have much luck shooting, but he was still around a .5PPG guy.

Not only that, but they signed that deal before a shortened season, where it's far more likely that a player might outperform his peripheral numbers. I didn't get that contract at all when it was signed, and to me it was a potentially crippling rookie mistake for Bergevin. That could cost the Habs 10+ million dollars on a 5 year deal. Heck, Subban will probably want an 8 year 64 million dollar contract if he has another good season.

Edit: I never understood any of the negativity around Subban and his apparently brashness. I think if the... situation was different, he'd just be seen as a good Canadian kid having some fun and making waves. He was treated like an honorary Russian... for some reason
I don't think anyone would question Subban's talents, but remember that Phaneuf used to have the same offensive pedigree and more production leading up to his big deal. Then his play regressed significantly. Defensemen aren't very predictable, specially not those who get by on their offensive/physical flair like Subban, Phaneuf, Green, etc.

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09-03-2013, 09:19 PM
  #870
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Steve Bernier has a better chance of starting in goal for Team Canada.

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09-03-2013, 09:33 PM
  #871
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Steve Bernier has a better chance of starting in goal for Team Canada.
Maybe they were referring to the Spengler Cup.

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09-03-2013, 10:17 PM
  #872
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Kadri + Franson + Liles (we amnesty him) for Luongo?

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Originally Posted by thepuckmonster View Post
Maybe they were referring to the Spengler Cup.
Realistically he could probably crack it as a backup for the World Championships...which has a real possibility of happening.

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09-03-2013, 11:16 PM
  #873
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The Leafs can't even afford to pay Kadri 3.5. This is why it's going to be entertaining - the middle ground between Kadri and the Leafs camp is something the Leafs cannot afford.
You don't have any confidence that Bozak can't handle both 1st & 2nd line center duties? How about moving JVR to center (where he's NEVER looked good at the NHL level). Then there's Bolland they could always use higher up on the depth chart (assuming he doesn't get hurt like he often does).

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09-04-2013, 12:31 AM
  #874
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Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit View Post
The Toronto Maple Leafs have $4 million in cap space. Franson wants $3M. Kadri wants $5.5M. Training camp opens in less than a week.

This is going to be highly, highly entertaining.
This idea might apply here for the right team at the right time:

Quote:
A sharp General Manager could send two offer sheets and risk his 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks in the 2014 draft. An offer sheet between $1,552,794 and $3,105,684 would require a 2nd round pick as compensation. An offer sheet between $3,105,684 and $4,658,386 would require a 1st and a 3rd round pick as compensation.
http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/4/16...ree-agency-rfa

For a team that has the need... at the same time, offersheet Franson for $3m (2nd round compensation)... Offersheet Kadri for $3.1m (or up to $4.6m) (1st and 3rd compensation)... Chances are good, this team will get one or the other...

Would Kadri sign a $3.1m offersheet? I don't know, and haven't been following the saga... This team might need to offer more up to $4.6? Only other thing, is the team who does this "Dual Offer Sheet" would need 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round draft picks next year...

If Nashville has the picks, I say Nashville should think of doing it (to try and get Kadri)... If they get Franson instead, Franson knows Nashville, and would probably fit in again - and at the cost of a 2nd rounder... After getting an offer sheet on Weber, I don't imagine that Nashville would be totally against the idea...

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Old
09-04-2013, 12:40 AM
  #875
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I think a smart GM would offer sheet Kadri for a 1-2 years/4.6M deal, then give Franson 3M for however long. Kadri gets good short-term money and stays in a good position to get paid when he's closer to UFA... he'd probably sign it. Then Nonis is pretty much forced to match Kadri's deal, and ends up losing Franson.

With that said, I'm not high on Franson at all. He's essentially a bigger MAB, needing to log bottom-pairing sheltered minutes at ES to be effective. He might be an attractive option for teams desperate for PP offense, though.

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