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Old
09-04-2013, 01:32 PM
  #26
Beef Invictus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
So you preferred the defense by committee of Gervais, Huskins and Foster to make up for Carle's minutes last season? You also believe Streit is a better option even if his D isn't exactly anything better than Carle and he is older and has a contract that is not that great either?

Whether or not you thought he wasn't worth signing in the long run (especially at market price that Tampa gave him) doesn't change the fact that he would have been far more effective at the least than that trifecta of fail last season...

Now if Streit matches or beats Carle this season and beyond which some may expect then this argument becomes a moot point of sorts.

Again..I was by far not his biggest fan either but I just don't understand the total hate for the dude so much so that people actually thought that those 3 losers we had to fill his void with were a better option..yeah maybe to miss the playoffs and assure us a high draft pick....that I will agree with.

BTW..as far as the Tampa fans lamentations..again that was based more on his pricey contract and terms that Tampa gave him..kind of similar to Bryz. He still was their minutes leader although some will say that was a problem in and of itself and maybe the coach getting fired attested to that......again I think Carle gets way too much scrutiny. He is a good player but yeah his market price that Holmgren allowed to happen ultimately made him not worth it but it did come at a cost to the Flyers last season at least despite what some people think...
Would he have truly been more effective though? He's good at the initial pass. After that he's a liability. On defense he plays soft and can't match up against tough competition, which is a liability in your minutes leader. If Matt Carle has the most minutes in your D corps, that indicates a team that has a problem. I'm ok with a transition year without him just to avoid overpaying him for years. I think the team is largely in the same situation with Carle last year, especially since a big part of the problem was Lavi's failure to fix the breakout plan or neutral zone movement...which you should recall became a problem while Carle was still here. Carle didn't help then, I don't see how he helps last year either.

As for Streit, while age is concerning as hell, he is far, far better as a PMD than Carle could ever hope to be. He's more complete offensively. Carle is effectively living off prestige built while Pronger propped him up. It's not going to last forever; hell, if anything that's begun to fade. Carle is strictly a complementary dman. He has no place as a go-to guy.

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09-04-2013, 01:37 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Cool I respect your projection and I do hope it's the case..just need to keep things in perspective since really Streit was signed to help fill the Carle gap for all intents and purposes. I definitely want Streit to do much better than Carle and that includes both ends of the ice. Streit does at least add more leadership experience as well..so I'll add that intangible.
I think management definitely views Streit as a replcement for what was missed last year with the departure of Carle. I just think he'll do what Carle did at an even higher level. Streit has routinely been a 45-55 point producer, a powerplay quarterback, and has shown the ability to make any team's transition game a hell of a lot better. Carle, up until last year, was on a much better team with much better players around him and he was only a 35-45 point producer. He could never quite make an impact on either special team, despite the fact that he was practically spoon fed the time after Pronger's injury. Lavy was desperate for him to become more involved with the powerplay, and he had neither the shot nor the vision to make it work at any susbstantial level. At this point, he's an average number 4 that doesn't excel at anything other than the first pass, which is only slightly above average.


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09-04-2013, 01:38 PM
  #28
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Carle and Streit may be similar, but they're not close to being the same. Carle's strength (and pretty much his only strength) was moving the puck in transition. We definitely lacked that ability last season, but we also lacked much more than just that.

Streit will not only create offense through transition like Carle did, but he'll facilitate offense in the attacking zone like Carle rarely did. There is a difference (at least in my mind) between being a puck moving defenseman and being an offensive defenseman. Streit is the latter, and he should help out with generating a more balanced offensive attack. I think if Schenn or Couturier breaks out this season, Streit will be a major reason why.

Carle may have helped us, but at the contract he got (and even the contract we could have had him for), he is not worth it. You can certainly argue the same for Streit, but I think putting money into Streit will be more beneficial than putting money into Carle.

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09-04-2013, 01:46 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Carle and Streit may be similar, but they're not close to being the same. Carle's strength (and pretty much his only strength) was moving the puck in transition. We definitely lacked that ability last season, but we also lacked much more than just that.

Streit will not only create offense through transition like Carle did, but he'll facilitate offense in the attacking zone like Carle rarely did. There is a difference (at least in my mind) between being a puck moving defenseman and being an offensive defenseman. Streit is the latter, and he should help out with generating a more balanced offensive attack. I think if Schenn or Couturier breaks out this season, Streit will be a major reason why. Carle may have helped us, but at the contract he got (and even the contract we could have had him for), he is not worth it. You can certainly argue the same for Streit, but I think putting money into Streit will be more beneficial than putting money into Carle.
Very good point. It's much easier to create offensively when you know that you have at least one defenseman behind you that's able to push the play. Obviously, if Schenn breaks out it's mostly because of chemistry with Lecavalier, but Streit could provide that push in transition the way Timonen often does. That will go a long way in helping the middle six enter the zone more cleanly. Opposing wingers will also hesitate more to collapse in the defensive zone knowing that one of Streit, Timonen, or Gus will be at the point at all times this year.

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09-04-2013, 01:55 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Carle may have helped us, but at the contract he got (and even the contract we could have had him for), he is not worth it. You can certainly argue the same for Streit, but I think putting money into Streit will be more beneficial than putting money into Carle.
Agreed. They're both overpayments, but overall Streit is the more beneficial overpayment. Hopefully he ages gracefully.

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09-04-2013, 02:06 PM
  #31
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If the Flyers would have signed Carle on better terms during the season, I wonder if they would have still gone after Streit? He would probably be seen more as a luxury since the big need still remains Pronger's replacement....an almost insurmountable need ....unless we opened the vault or trade away our future like with trying to get Weber..

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09-04-2013, 02:21 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
If the Flyers would have signed Carle on better terms during the season, I wonder if they would have still gone after Streit? He would probably be seen more as a luxury since the big need still remains Pronger's replacement....an almost insurmountable need ....unless we opened the vault or trade away our future like with trying to get Weber..
Probably not. They wouldn't have had the room for him on the roster or the cap space. The Flyers biggest needs on defense aren't necessarily talent related, but rather not having enough guys that can lead a pair, outside of Timonen. Coburn, Grossmann, and Schenn are all guys that are better served as complimentary defenseman with another defenseman who can drive the play. That's why Coburn is either a number two or four depending on how well he's playing on that given day. Other teams have more defenseman who can lead a pair, even if it's for limited minutes to maximize effectiveness.

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