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09-04-2013, 06:39 PM
  #1
NYVanfan
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Q on Torts & the D

from a Canucks fan, wondering what approach we're most likely to see...
Will he play favorites? (AV certainly did with Bieksa) Will he exile guys to the doghouse? (AV w Ballard) Any types of guys liable to bloom under him? (Edler under AV early, bit stale later)

Just looking at stats, it seems Torts did a fair bit of juggling, but wanted your pro takes ...thanks

last year ES ice, then most common pairings below...

Girardi 25:24:00
McDonagh 24:21
Staal 24:27:00
Del Zotto 23:10
Stralman 18:02
Moore 11:46
Eminger 13:02
Gilroy 9:33
Hamrlik 10:06
Bickel 5:31

fairly even spread for the top 4, looks like a rotation for the bottom pairing, w Stralman getting the bulk there.

Girardi played nearly half his even strength minutes w McD, then another 20% with DelZ, then 10% with Staal.

Staal played most of his time with DelZ, but that was only 33%, then a quarter w Stralman and Girardi (it was Staal-Stralman in the playoffs)

DelZ's ES time was really shuffled -- only 20%ish with any of the others

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09-04-2013, 06:45 PM
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TheRightWay
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If you can't skate then you're on borrowed time with Tortorella. Rozsival and Malik were quickly jettisoned for this reason and guys like Staal and McDonagh excelled for exactly these reasons. If you can skate then he'll give you some leash, as he did with Del Zotto (which worked out) and Gilroy (not so much). You also better be in damn good shape. There will be back-to-back games where he'll expect Edler to play 28 minutes each. He doesn't play favorites; he'll put that AHL call-up on the first pairing halfway through the game if he's the only one playing well. However, you do have to earn his trust. He has no problem rolling out two defensive pairings for the bulk of the game. There would be games where our third pairing would see 6 minutes of icetime.

And get used to the juggling, for better or worse. As I alluded to earlier, he'll completely overhaul the lines after one period if he doesn't like what he sees.

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09-04-2013, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRightWay View Post
If you can't skate then you're on borrowed time with Tortorella. Rozsival and Malik were quickly jettisoned for this reason and guys like Staal and McDonagh excelled for exactly these reasons. If you can skate then he'll give you some leash, as he did with Del Zotto (which worked out) and Gilroy (not so much). You also better be in damn good shape. There will be back-to-back games where he'll expect Edler to play 28 minutes each. He doesn't play favorites; he'll put that AHL call-up on the first pairing halfway through the game if he's the only one playing well. However, you do have to earn his trust. He has no problem rolling out two defensive pairings for the bulk of the game. There would be games where our third pairing would see 6 minutes of icetime.

And get used to the juggling, for better or worse. As I alluded to earlier, he'll completely overhaul the lines after one period if he doesn't like what he sees.
Juggling with the forward lines, sure, but he generall kept the pairings on the D together. probably a byproduct of the fact that the D was much better and more defined than the forwards were the past few seasons.

Either way, TRW explained it pretty well. Del Zotto would go in the doghouse from time to time, but for the most part, he played his way into there.

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09-04-2013, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by BB v2 0 View Post
Juggling with the forward lines, sure, but he generall kept the pairings on the D together. probably a byproduct of the fact that the D was much better and more defined than the forwards were the past few seasons.

Either way, TRW explained it pretty well. Del Zotto would go in the doghouse from time to time, but for the most part, he played his way into there.
He still did plenty of shuffling (not necessarily saying it's a bad thing). For instance, Del Zotto was paired with Girardi 27% of the time last season, Stralman 24%, and Staal 18%.

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09-04-2013, 08:09 PM
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He seems to want the forwards (wings) to collapse down low in the defensive zone, which will leave the defenseman (pointmen) open a lot of the time if you do not force a turnover regain possession of the puck... This strategy can also hinder your ability to breakout of the zone quickly when you do regain possession.... Shot-blocking and sacrificing the body (taking away passing/shooting lanes) is emphasized.... He seems to have a short leash (little patience) for the younger, less established players if they make errors/mistakes and tends to be a lot more lenient with the more experienced, established players.

Torts defensive strategy was effective for us 2 years ago when we were in the running for the President's trophy.... But it seems to have run its course with our particular personnel. I'm not going to dismiss it because I think the strategy that any particular team employs can vary in it's effectiveness depending on the players and their strengths/attributes/chemistry....

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09-04-2013, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRightWay View Post
If you can't skate then you're on borrowed time with Tortorella. Rozsival and Malik were quickly jettisoned for this reason and guys like Staal and McDonagh excelled for exactly these reasons. If you can skate then he'll give you some leash, as he did with Del Zotto (which worked out) and Gilroy (not so much). You also better be in damn good shape. There will be back-to-back games where he'll expect Edler to play 28 minutes each. He doesn't play favorites; he'll put that AHL call-up on the first pairing halfway through the game if he's the only one playing well. However, you do have to earn his trust. He has no problem rolling out two defensive pairings for the bulk of the game. There would be games where our third pairing would see 6 minutes of icetime.

And get used to the juggling, for better or worse. As I alluded to earlier, he'll completely overhaul the lines after one period if he doesn't like what he sees.
Malik played for torts?

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09-04-2013, 09:19 PM
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On the positive side, get used to being in every game, players growing defensively, and players being held accountable.

On the negative side, get used to minute-by-minute OCD shuffling of the forward lines, never seeing Roberto Luongo again because he'll be draped by his own defensemen, and cringe-inducing stubbornness (which is a hard combo to pull off given his constant shuffling, but believe me Torts does it)

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09-05-2013, 12:06 AM
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You'll most likely despise him by year two. Have fun with that.

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09-05-2013, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Gardner McKay View Post
Malik played for torts?
Good call, he missed that experience by one season. Holy **** could you imagine Malik under Torts?

Anyway Redden would be the fill-in, then. Redden was on the way down, but Tortorella surely sped up the process of his departure. Still have nightmares of his hooking penalties after average skaters blew past him.

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09-05-2013, 06:18 AM
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Good call, he missed that experience by one season. Holy **** could you imagine Malik under Torts?

Anyway Redden would be the fill-in, then. Redden was on the way down, but Tortorella surely sped up the process of his departure. Still have nightmares of his hooking penalties after average skaters blew past him.
No doubt that Torts created some of his own problems but not everything that went wrong during his time was his fault. ****ing Redden played like **** his entire time with the Rangers. He deserved his time in the AHL. He was a train wreck. Sather signing him to that outrageous contract when Redden had already been showing signs of decline for at least two full years. Sather should take the complete hit for that. That Redden managed to crawl back into the NHL last year literally as a 6-7 guy with the Blues and Bruins is almost remarkable to me but I don't see any interest from anyone to sign him for another go around this year.

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09-05-2013, 08:32 AM
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I think Torts and Sullivan will do well with Vancouver. While many will disagree, the overall idea that they seemed to share, that big players should go out and make big plays should jive better with the natural talent Vancouver has.

I think AV and company will do well with the Rangers as well, they need a little more strategic approach. I think it will take a longer adjustment period than the fans want to see, but I think they will be an overall more fluid on ice team once they catch on.

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09-05-2013, 08:54 AM
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Tortorella plays favorites hard and will put out players with next to no offensive prowess in the dying minutes of a 1-goal game for no reason. See: Boyle, Brian.

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09-05-2013, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by htk30 View Post
Tortorella plays favorites hard and will put out players with next to no offensive prowess in the dying minutes of a 1-goal game for no reason. See: Boyle, Brian.
This is hyperbole. Also, see: faceoffs, winning them.

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09-05-2013, 12:48 PM
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Gardner McKay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRightWay View Post
Good call, he missed that experience by one season. Holy **** could you imagine Malik under Torts?

Anyway Redden would be the fill-in, then. Redden was on the way down, but Tortorella surely sped up the process of his departure. Still have nightmares of his hooking penalties after average skaters blew past him.
I assumed Torts would have been convicted of murder if Malik was still playing for us

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09-05-2013, 12:58 PM
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great feedback, thanks all
I honestly have no idea what to expect ... oddly i think the NYR and the Canucks are in similar spots ...both should be contenders, but both have stumbled and could fall out of the picture...

Swapping coaches a very strange move. I actually think AV will be very good for you -- should bring out the creativity in Nash and Richards and let them fly. He was known for letting the O players do what they want from the circles on down, and he loves speed and transition ...often too much at the expense of the D coverage though. However, like what sounds like the story w Torts, it just got stale -- too much line juggling, too much playing favorites despite mistakes (Bieksa), too much predictable zone starts and lame PP (the drop pass, o my god...) And the Canucks were never as good post-Erhoff ...I'm thinking now's a good time to acquire Del Zotto for my fantasy team...

Im curious, do you know whether Tort's story was the same in Tampa? My memory may not be clear, but i seem to recall that cup team being much more offensive-minded..?

cheers

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09-05-2013, 12:59 PM
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here's a fun one for you ...
if it were entirely up to the coaches, who would our two teams trade?
Bieksa for _____ ?

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09-05-2013, 01:04 PM
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In game, he is impatient and overcoaches. He will be constantly juggling. He likes guys who block shots; one reason Girardi led in ES minutes when McD and Staal are better D-men.

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09-05-2013, 01:06 PM
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In game, he is impatient and overcoaches. He will be constantly juggling. He likes guys who block shots; one reason Girardi led in ES minutes when McD and Staal are better D-men.
That, and the competition on RD is much less than LD.

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09-05-2013, 01:06 PM
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Malik played for torts?
And Rozi was a poor skater back then?

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09-05-2013, 01:09 PM
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If a player stinks (on a given night, or in general), Torts won't play them. Period. The Rangers generally had 4-5 capable defensemen throughout his tenure, and thats who got the bulk of the minutes. I never really had any problems with his usage of personnel.

Most of the Ranger fans that did are delusional and/or think younger players are much better than they actually are.

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09-05-2013, 01:10 PM
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Tortorella plays favorites hard and will put out players with next to no offensive prowess in the dying minutes of a 1-goal game for no reason. See: Boyle, Brian.
Only if you're from the Boston area.

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09-05-2013, 01:13 PM
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That, and the competition on RD is much less than LD.
agree. That hurt.

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09-05-2013, 01:29 PM
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Only if you're from the Boston area.
Not sure if joking....


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09-05-2013, 02:41 PM
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Not sure if joking....

was kidding. More importantly, why would anyone ask CK to pose like that???

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09-05-2013, 02:46 PM
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was kidding. More importantly, why would anyone ask CK to pose like that???
They probably wanted to curse his season.

Mission accomplished.

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