HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread III: "Hemsky Off The Market" - MacT Presser

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-05-2013, 02:06 AM
  #901
topchowda
Registered User
 
topchowda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 7,430
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLURVE View Post
If MacT had not spout off about trading Horcoff and Hemsky so often soon after becoming GM, they would not have needed this presser when the trade failed. It would saved a lot of spin doctoring.

Now, if Hemsky is going to be here for the year, then there was not much need to trade away PRV for Perron since Magnus was coming on strong late last season driving to the net with and without the puck and scoring. One more year of development under Eakins might be the good medicine going down. Instead, we have a 3rd line Hemsky making 5 million/yr. MacT might be a fine spin doctor but with this, he put the "F U" in SNAFU.
If the biggest issue MacT has is not having room in the top 6 for Hemsky, thats a great problem to have. Hell most teams cant even find 4 quality top 6 guys.

topchowda is offline  
Old
09-05-2013, 02:24 AM
  #902
Tedi
Registered User
 
Tedi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,264
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLURVE View Post
If MacT had not spout off about trading Horcoff and Hemsky so often soon after becoming GM, they would not have needed this presser when the trade failed. It would saved a lot of spin doctoring.

Now, if Hemsky is going to be here for the year, then there was not much need to trade away PRV for Perron since Magnus was coming on strong late last season driving to the net with and without the puck and scoring. One more year of development under Eakins might be the good medicine going down. Instead, we have a 3rd line Hemsky making 5 million/yr. MacT might be a fine spin doctor but with this, he put the "F U" in SNAFU.
I agree with this. The whole press conf. thingy was to spin Hemsky not being traded. And although Hemmer is saying all of the rehearsed right things...playing different role, help the kids, yada yada yada. But when the reality of playing in his new limited minute role with little to no PP time arrives I think his level of commitment will be tested. The only thing transparent was the lame attempt to pass off poor asset mgmt. I however didn't mind the PRV for Perron trade but it should have hinged on Hemsky being moved.

Tedi is offline  
Old
09-05-2013, 03:32 AM
  #903
nexttothemoon
The Drive for Nine
 
nexttothemoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,556
vCash: 500
Perron for MPS was a great trade no matter who was or wasn't traded. Perron and MPS played the left side... not seeing any direct correlation as to why that trade has relevance to Hemsky staying or not.

As to "spin"... whatever... I see it as MacT not wanting to give away an asset for essentially nothing since the market obviously isn't there for a $5 million dollar injury prone player. So he goes back to Hemsky and they talk candidly about his role on the team going forward (which has obviously changed) and Hemsky apparently accepts that now to a greater extent and knows he has to work on aspects of his game as well.

Sure there's some "spin" there... but life has dealt lemons in this situation so MacT and Hemsky are trying to make some lemonade out of this.

It could end being a solid move when a few months down the line Hemsky is putting up good numbers in a 3rd line offensive support role with some occasional PP time... plus if an injury to other top 6 forwards occurs... he's literally one of the best replacements you can think of to step up and likely seamlessly fill in (unless of course Hemsky gets injured as well... but you've got to think eventually he's gotta have some luck that doesn't have the word "bad" in front of it).

nexttothemoon is offline  
Old
09-05-2013, 03:46 AM
  #904
Tedi
Registered User
 
Tedi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,264
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
Perron for MPS was a great trade no matter who was or wasn't traded. Perron and MPS played the left side... not seeing any direct correlation as to why that trade has relevance to Hemsky staying or not.

As to "spin"... whatever... I see it as MacT not wanting to give away an asset for essentially nothing since the market obviously isn't there for a $5 million dollar injury prone player. So he goes back to Hemsky and they talk candidly about his role on the team going forward (which has obviously changed) and Hemsky apparently accepts that now to a greater extent and knows he has to work on aspects of his game as well.
Sure there's some "spin" there... but life has dealt lemons in this situation so MacT and Hemsky are trying to make some lemonade out of this.

It could end being a solid move when a few months down the line Hemsky is putting up good numbers in a 3rd line offensive support role with some occasional PP time... plus if an injury to other top 6 forwards occurs... he's literally one of the best replacements you can think of to step up and likely seamlessly fill in (unless of course Hemsky gets injured as well... but you've got to think eventually he's gotta have some luck that doesn't have the word "bad" in front of it).
Hemmer is being a good soldier and will make 5 mil this year for his troubles. But anyone actually thinking that Hemsky is excited at the prospect of playing out of the top six and limited PP time is kidding themselves.

Tedi is offline  
Old
09-05-2013, 06:11 AM
  #905
The Perfect Human*
Bow Down to Lidas
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,712
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedi View Post
Hemmer is being a good soldier and will make 5 mil this year for his troubles. But anyone actually thinking that Hemsky is excited at the prospect of playing out of the top six and limited PP time is kidding themselves.
I don't know - might be interesting to see how his even-strength production does. Even though he'll likely have lesser linemates (Gordon+Jones/Smyth/Joensuu) than in years past - Hemsky's going to be seeing a steady amount of ESTOI (necessity of having Gordon on ice), with what's likely going to be the lowest QualComp he's faced since the 2005 lockout (1st/2nd line will command attention).

This means Hemmer will be seeing time vs bottom-pairing defensemen and less robust 2-way forward lines. He's never been one reliant on teammate puck-handling or finishing ability to rack up his points. He's at his best when he's the primary puck-handler on a line (which he will be) and he's got guys that go to dirty areas to create space and pass targets for him (Horcoff, Smyth, Penner in past). I don't see why Joensuu-Gordon-Hemsky can't be productive with the quality of competition they'll be facing.

Another thing to think about is that after RNH, the most talented PP QB on this team is Ales Hemsky. Gagner can't touch Hemsky's level of PP production, and I think Hemmer will be a key fixture on this team's PP this season (#1 while RNH is injured, #2 unit afterwards). He's going to have talent to work with even on that 2nd unit, with some combination of Gagner/Perron/Yakupov and Belov/Grebeshkov likely making up the squad.

Like Mac-T said - I think there's room for Hemsky to become a productive contributor for this team. And if later on in the season defense continues to be a primary issue, with all 3 of Ebs/Yak/Hemsky firing on all cylinders - it creates a situation where one of those high-value youngsters (Ebs/Yak) becomes expendable to bring in that true top-pairing talent.

The Perfect Human* is offline  
Old
09-05-2013, 07:00 AM
  #906
McClelland
Registered User
 
McClelland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Bergen
Country: Norway
Posts: 1,105
vCash: 50
Hemsky is a classy player if healthy! Age, injurys and cap hit is his worst enemy.

3rd line minutes doesnt mean less toi, if they run 3 scoring lines!

Omark Gordon Hemsky would be a great offensive threat (with Gordon as the safety belt), especially against easier competition.

So i hope Omark shows up at camp so they can rolling 3 scoring lines some games, and go with Smyth Gordon Hemsky other tougher games.

I dont think smitty has gas enough for a full season and build up some value on Omark isnt wrong either, could maybe fetch a 2 round pick at deadline if showing progress.

Or a Hemsky trade at deadline, ifnt the intention to resign him as a Ufa is there.(2x3.5).

Gives us options!

McClelland is offline  
Old
09-05-2013, 07:01 AM
  #907
The Perfect Human*
Bow Down to Lidas
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,712
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by McClelland View Post
Hemsky is a classy player if healthy! Age, injurys and cap hit is his worst enemy.

3rd line minutes doesnt mean less toi, if they run 3 scoring lines!

Omark Gordon Hemsky would be a great offensive threat (with Gordon as the safety belt), especially against easier competition.

So i hope Omark shows up at camp so they can rolling 3 scoring lines some games, and go with Smyth Gordon Hemsky other tougher games.

I dont think smitty has gas enough for a full season and build up some value on Omark isnt wrong either, could maybe fetch a 2 round pick at deadline if showing progress.

Or a Hemsky trade at deadline, ifnt the intention to resign him as a Ufa is there.(2x3.5).
I don't see Omark and Hemsky having much chemistry. Both guys love holding onto the puck and playing the role of passer. Both need similar net-crashing linemates. I'd put Omark on the 4th line to boost Lander's offensive capabilities. Something like Omark-Lander-Joensuu would be very interesting to watch.

The Perfect Human* is offline  
Old
09-05-2013, 07:10 AM
  #908
The Perfect Human*
Bow Down to Lidas
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,712
vCash: 500
Throwing out a hypothetical situation here:

It's the 2014 off-season, and the Oilers have had quite a few developments:
-Oscar Klefbom performs well in 3rd pairing role, starts to blossom in 2nd pairing role
-Justin Schultz establishes himself as good 2nd pairing defenseman
-Ference performs well in 2nd pairing role
-Belov performs well in 3rd pairing role
-Jeff Petry continues to be our best defenseman, holding down the right side like he did last year
-Smid-Petry play like they did last season - head barely above the water against the toughest competition in the league

Additionally, "Player X", a young emerging/established top-pairing defenseman on another team, becomes an available trade target, albeit requiring an overpay.

In terms of semantics, you're now looking at this:

Smid-Petry
Ference-J.Schultz
Klefbom-Belov

Because of this over-load on the left side, does this make Smid expendable?

Proposal
Smid+Nurse+2014 1st
for
"Player X" - a true top pairing defenseman in his mid-20's


I know it's a tough asset that rarely becomes available, but a frank over-pay like this might do the trick on a team looking to re-build or add depth to their roster. I think PHX might be headed in this direction quite soon (Yandle, OEL).

You're now looking at:

Player X - Petry
Ference-J.Schultz
Klefbom-Belov
Grebeshkov

We instantly upgrade that top pairing, maintain functionality on our 2nd pairing, and have a steady 3rd pairing. I think it would really transform the D. And as Ference declines into a bottom pairing role over the course of his contract (inevitable given his age) - we'll have the steady rise of Klefbom to replace him on the second pairing.

It would probably take a MAJOR overpay - I feel this is one of those times where the combined value of the "quantity" assets have to massively out-do that of the individual "quality" asset.

If this team is ready to compete within the next 2-3 seasons, it might be worth mortgaging future success of Nurse/2014 1st/Smid to get that immediate success while we still have that window within the cap. To have a guy about to enter his prime over the next 10 seasons will be key if we're going to take advantage of Hall/RNH/Eberle while they're young.


Last edited by The Perfect Human*: 09-05-2013 at 07:19 AM.
The Perfect Human* is offline  
Old
09-05-2013, 07:11 AM
  #909
Soundwave
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 26,074
vCash: 500
Hall-RNH-Eberle
Belov J. Schultz

Hemsky-Perron-Yakupov
Gagner Petry

Are the PP units I see. Hemsky likes to play on the left wall on the PP and Gagner likes to play point, so that works.

Soundwave is offline  
Old
09-05-2013, 07:17 AM
  #910
McClelland
Registered User
 
McClelland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Bergen
Country: Norway
Posts: 1,105
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Perfect Human View Post
I don't see Omark and Hemsky having much chemistry. Both guys love holding onto the puck and playing the role of passer. Both need similar net-crashing linemates. I'd put Omark on the 4th line to boost Lander's offensive capabilities. Something like Omark-Lander-Joensuu would be very interesting to watch.
Its worth a try again if Omark makes the team! Gordon could be the right balance player in such a line.

Hate seeiing Hemsky in a checking line with a smyth kind of player a full season, throwing most of the 5 million in the lake and having less value if trading him.

McClelland is offline  
Old
09-05-2013, 07:28 AM
  #911
The Perfect Human*
Bow Down to Lidas
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,712
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Hall-RNH-Eberle
Belov J. Schultz

Hemsky-Perron-Yakupov
Gagner Petry

Are the PP units I see. Hemsky likes to play on the left wall on the PP and Gagner likes to play point, so that works.
I see one of Perron/Joensuu becoming the Horcoffian-like presence in front of the net on that top pairing (ideally Joensuu).

That leaves a pretty potent 2nd pairing:

Hemsky (half-wall left side) - Gagner (lower left side) - Perron/Joensuu (net-front)
Belov (top half of umbrella) - Yakupov (half-wall right side)

Have it set up like this:



Unit 1: 93, 4, 19, and 14 in their normal spots. 93 is primary puck-handler on right half-boards. 19 is top of the umbrella, a one-time option for 93 and a distributor. 14 plays rover between left half-boards and low-boards, getting open for quick cross-ice passes from 4/93/19. 57/6 works the front of net/left low-boards in a puck-retrieval role in the behind-net area with 4. 4 is in his familiar spot, playing rover between lower right boards, behind net, and net-front. From here he can be both a finisher (rebounds, cross-ice pass from 14) or a passer (cross-ice to 14 or 57/6)

Unit 2: 83 sets up like RNH, except on left side - primary puck-handler. One-time options to both 77 and 64. If those lanes are taken away he's got 89 on lower left side to open up different angles. 64 plays rover between right half-boards and right low-boards, looking for one-time setups from 83/89/77. 57/6 is the net front presence, and works the behind-net area with 89 in terms of puck retrieval and boards play.


Last edited by The Perfect Human*: 09-05-2013 at 07:38 AM.
The Perfect Human* is offline  
Old
09-05-2013, 09:12 AM
  #912
Jimmi Jenkins
So Rainy
 
Jimmi Jenkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 39,194
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by McClelland View Post
Its worth a try again if Omark makes the team! Gordon could be the right balance player in such a line.

Hate seeiing Hemsky in a checking line with a smyth kind of player a full season, throwing most of the 5 million in the lake and having less value if trading him.
Not really, it would be a nightmare and put Gordon in a terrible spot.

Besides, if we call a spade a spade, Omark was brought here to replace Rajala, so I see him cut early in camp so he can settle in down in OKC.

Jimmi Jenkins is offline  
Old
09-05-2013, 09:31 AM
  #913
joestevens29
Registered User
 
joestevens29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 25,766
vCash: 50
Andy Strickland ‏@andystrickland 10m
Piggybacking on @TSNBobMcKenzie tweet. #stlblues have invited Ryan Whitney in on a PTO but nothing has been finalized.

joestevens29 is offline  
Old
09-05-2013, 09:38 AM
  #914
joestevens29
Registered User
 
joestevens29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 25,766
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usual_Suspect View Post
Yeah. I don't know why MacT thinks players won't accept invites due to insurance reasons when other teams seem to be using them.
Because he has reached out to some. To these vets waiting why would they come to Edmonton? They will hold out as long as they can to get a shot with a team that has a shot at the cup. If MacT wants any of these guys he has to offer them a contract plain and simple.


As for Cleary, Spec said he asked MacT and MacT doesn't plan on going after him. Doesn't think he has foot speed anymore. It was quite the ****ed up conversation on 1260 as between Spec, Gregor and Brownlee they were talking about 3 different things with regards to Cleary. Spec talked about the Oilers should want him, Brownlee talked about 10 years ago and Gregor talked about why would Cleary come here. All Spec was trying to say is we should have interest.

joestevens29 is offline  
Old
09-05-2013, 09:44 AM
  #915
Paralyzer
Tier 13428 Oiler Fan
 
Paralyzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,696
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Andy Strickland ‏@andystrickland 10m
Piggybacking on @TSNBobMcKenzie tweet. #stlblues have invited Ryan Whitney in on a PTO but nothing has been finalized.
STL needs more defenders like they need crack up their butt.

Paralyzer is offline  
Old
09-05-2013, 09:49 AM
  #916
SLURVE
Registered User
 
SLURVE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 698
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patch101 View Post
Sooooo, you want Tambo back? I seriously enjoy the transparency that MacT has had. I'm sure there is a degree of learning happening, but its refreshing.
To be frank, I actually prefer MacT over Tambo because he has bigger kahunas. Tambo and MacT are polar opposites when it comes to revealing their hand. There is nothing wrong about being forthright but I just think not every unresolved issue from a possible trade to personnel problem should one be naming a player (ex Hemsky and Schremp) associated and let it become broadcast news. It is great fodder for the media but not so well in terms of being tactful and fair. It will save on a lot of spin later on. Just get 'er done then talk about it after the issue is settled and he will become a more respected and credible GM.

SLURVE is offline  
Old
09-05-2013, 09:50 AM
  #917
SLURVE
Registered User
 
SLURVE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 698
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedi View Post
Hemmer is being a good soldier and will make 5 mil this year for his troubles. But anyone actually thinking that Hemsky is excited at the prospect of playing out of the top six and limited PP time is kidding themselves.
You are bang on...

SLURVE is offline  
Old
09-05-2013, 10:15 AM
  #918
McClelland
Registered User
 
McClelland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Bergen
Country: Norway
Posts: 1,105
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Not really, it would be a nightmare and put Gordon in a terrible spot.

Besides, if we call a spade a spade, Omark was brought here to replace Rajala, so I see him cut early in camp so he can settle in down in OKC.
You cant think rational! You havent seen anything from the camp yet ,and that says everything about your post.

Omark doesnt clear waivers at a 600k/100k twoway contract, thats pretty obvious.

Its a no risk high reward to have a look, for any team who need some cheap offense.

McClelland is offline  
Old
09-05-2013, 10:17 AM
  #919
Halibut
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,255
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
Perron for MPS was a great trade no matter who was or wasn't traded. Perron and MPS played the left side... not seeing any direct correlation as to why that trade has relevance to Hemsky staying or not.

As to "spin"... whatever... I see it as MacT not wanting to give away an asset for essentially nothing since the market obviously isn't there for a $5 million dollar injury prone player.
So he goes back to Hemsky and they talk candidly about his role on the team going forward (which has obviously changed) and Hemsky apparently accepts that now to a greater extent and knows he has to work on aspects of his game as well.
No problem with that, just with people suggesting this is a good move for MacT while also complaining that Tambo never moved Hemsky. If he doesnt have any value now what makes anyone think he had value back then?

Halibut is offline  
Old
09-05-2013, 10:21 AM
  #920
Jimmi Jenkins
So Rainy
 
Jimmi Jenkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 39,194
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
No problem with that, just with people suggesting this is a good move for MacT while also complaining that Tambo never moved Hemsky. If he doesnt have any value now what makes anyone think he had value back then?
Before the extension it's pretty clear he would have.

Also, I think it's a "good move" by Mac-T just simply to keep Hemsky from having to constantly answer questions related to a possible move. Getting ahead of things, smart, imo.

Jimmi Jenkins is offline  
Old
09-05-2013, 10:28 AM
  #921
djdub
#6cups
 
djdub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 681
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Perfect Human View Post
I see one of Perron/Joensuu becoming the Horcoffian-like presence in front of the net on that top pairing (ideally Joensuu).

That leaves a pretty potent 2nd pairing:

Hemsky (half-wall left side) - Gagner (lower left side) - Perron/Joensuu (net-front)
Belov (top half of umbrella) - Yakupov (half-wall right side)

Have it set up like this:



Unit 1: 93, 4, 19, and 14 in their normal spots. 93 is primary puck-handler on right half-boards. 19 is top of the umbrella, a one-time option for 93 and a distributor. 14 plays rover between left half-boards and low-boards, getting open for quick cross-ice passes from 4/93/19. 57/6 works the front of net/left low-boards in a puck-retrieval role in the behind-net area with 4. 4 is in his familiar spot, playing rover between lower right boards, behind net, and net-front. From here he can be both a finisher (rebounds, cross-ice pass from 14) or a passer (cross-ice to 14 or 57/6)

Unit 2: 83 sets up like RNH, except on left side - primary puck-handler. One-time options to both 77 and 64. If those lanes are taken away he's got 89 on lower left side to open up different angles. 64 plays rover between right half-boards and right low-boards, looking for one-time setups from 83/89/77. 57/6 is the net front presence, and works the behind-net area with 89 in terms of puck retrieval and boards play.

I like these and think this is what they could look like but you never know if Eakins wants to try something completely different.

djdub is offline  
Old
09-05-2013, 10:32 AM
  #922
dem
Registered User
 
dem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,703
vCash: 500
It wouldn't surprise me if Hemsky is on the second line ahead of Yakupov.

dem is offline  
Old
09-05-2013, 10:34 AM
  #923
joestevens29
Registered User
 
joestevens29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 25,766
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Before the extension it's pretty clear he would have.

Also, I think it's a "good move" by Mac-T just simply to keep Hemsky from having to constantly answer questions related to a possible move. Getting ahead of things, smart, imo.
For what it's worth Spec was talking about how they've been trying to move Hemsky for 3 years and never found anything of value.

Was another arguement him and Brownlee had yesterday. Brownlee thinks that no matter what you trade Hemsky for whatever you can get at the TDD. Spec says if Hemsky actually plays the way you want him to and the team is in a playoff position why would you take the 2 2nds and make your team worse?

joestevens29 is offline  
Old
09-05-2013, 10:42 AM
  #924
Jimmi Jenkins
So Rainy
 
Jimmi Jenkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 39,194
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dem View Post
It wouldn't surprise me if Hemsky is on the second line ahead of Yakupov.
Then prepared to be surprised, no way Hemsky is ahead of Yakupov in any measure on this team.

Jimmi Jenkins is offline  
Old
09-05-2013, 10:43 AM
  #925
Jimmi Jenkins
So Rainy
 
Jimmi Jenkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 39,194
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
For what it's worth Spec was talking about how they've been trying to move Hemsky for 3 years and never found anything of value.

Was another arguement him and Brownlee had yesterday. Brownlee thinks that no matter what you trade Hemsky for whatever you can get at the TDD. Spec says if Hemsky actually plays the way you want him to and the team is in a playoff position why would you take the 2 2nds and make your team worse?
And Rishaug has said there were deals (or a deal) to move Hemsky for a young (possibly roster player) and a high pick and Tambo dithered. There's NO way he hasn't had value for 3 years, that's just dumb. Look at Penner.

Jimmi Jenkins is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:31 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.