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Old
09-05-2013, 10:40 PM
  #501
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
And you got all this from 1 exhibition game? Oh dear lord.

I don't disagree too much with the first part of your post though. Klefbom definitely needs to prove more to earn an NHL roster spot but lets not get too worked up about an exhibition game, his first competitive game in almost a full calendar year.
I don't take anything from one game. I didn't state that.

What I'm curious is how so many people that haven't seen klef play in ages are instead inferring he's one of the most valuable players the org has. That to me is incomprehensible. That comment and assessment of Klef being a top D is made all over this board.

The game means nothing. Except that it is the primacy information that any of us have to draw on. In essence that in primacy effect, this is what Klef looks like now. That he doesn't look like a top draftpick now. This is a sample of one, sure, but right now a sample of one is all we have to detect where the player is currently at.

I'm not deducing from one game, just saying that what was seen today is maybe more the staqus quo than anybody wants to realize.

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09-05-2013, 10:42 PM
  #502
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I don't know why so many on here are freaking out, but I guess that's HFOil. It's the first game of rookie camp and they haven't even had a single practice yet. Some guys need structure to show their best, especially bottom 6 type forwards. Not that surprising that the more skilled Calgary squad fared better. Also, Klefbom hasn't played in almost a year, bound to be some rust.

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09-05-2013, 10:45 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by NAF View Post
Uh, yeah, it could also well be that the kid has only played like 60 games in the last 2 years and hasn't played in one since last October, almost a full year ago.

He'll be fine. All along, I've figured it'd take 40-odd games in OKC to knock the rust off and get back in form. He was never going to walk in and be a top-4 guy on the Oilers this season. That was always crazy talk.
The first quoted part is much harder to get over than what you deduced in the latter part.

Lets look at J Schultz, didn't miss any of his significant development, looked like a god in the AHL, and was undressed in the NHL in rookie season despite being much more seasoned, and NA seasoned, than Klefbom.

To say that 40 games in the AHL is going to get Klefbom right up to speed as if the last nightmarish couple years never happened is laughable. Theres simply no way that a young D, no matter how good, misses this much time and it doesn't have a profound effect. What \i'm saying has nothing to do specifically with Klef. Its developmental dynamic for any developing D. This much time missing in that early fold is very bad news. It literally stops development in its tracks while peers keep getting better.

How long do you think until he's even in the Oilers lineup. Just curious.

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09-05-2013, 10:49 PM
  #504
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I don't take anything from one game. I didn't state that.

What I'm curious is how so many people that haven't seen klef play in ages are instead inferring he's one of the most valuable players the org has. That to me is incomprehensible. That comment and assessment of Klef being a top D is made all over this board.

The game means nothing. Except that it is the primacy information that any of us have to draw on. In essence that in primacy effect, this is what Klef looks like now. That he doesn't look like a top draftpick now. This is a sample of one, sure, but right now a sample of one is all we have to detect where the player is currently at.

I'm not deducing from one game, just saying that what was seen today is maybe more the staqus quo than anybody wants to realize.
This is exactly what I've been thinking. There have been plenty of comparisons from HFOil to Brodin in terms of potential and rookie season impact, when it's been pretty well accepted by people who have watched them play that Brodin has always been a couple steps ahead of Klefbom. Seems like many on here feel comfortable counting their chickens before they hatch. Learn from our past mistakes, guys.

I'm not writing Klefbom off as a bust by any means, but he is definitely not a sure bet to be a bloody top pairing guy despite how some on here speak of him. Let's hope he shows more next game.

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09-05-2013, 10:51 PM
  #505
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Originally Posted by hellacious View Post
My thoughts

Khaira was the best forward on the Oilers side. He looked big and was able to keep possession down low a few times. He looked good taking a few faceoffs and hope to see more of that.

Loved it when Nurse plastered Baertshi it was well worth the two minutes. He settled down after the first.

Bunz never had much help but he was giving up rebounds like crazy.

Klefbom looked ok made a few mistakes.

Miller was the big disappointment on the night but played better in the third.

Just a rookie game boys.
Didn't mind Khaira, but no one was better than Roy. He was easily our best player tonight.

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09-05-2013, 10:54 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I don't take anything from one game. I didn't state that.

What I'm curious is how so many people that haven't seen klef play in ages are instead inferring he's one of the most valuable players the org has. That to me is incomprehensible. That comment and assessment of Klef being a top D is made all over this board.

The game means nothing. Except that it is the primacy information that any of us have to draw on. In essence that in primacy effect, this is what Klef looks like now. That he doesn't look like a top draftpick now. This is a sample of one, sure, but right now a sample of one is all we have to detect where the player is currently at.

I'm not deducing from one game, just saying that what was seen today is maybe more the staqus quo than anybody wants to realize.
He is one of the more valuable players that the organization has.
Sure, he's only a prospect but he's our best bet to be a potential 2 way top pairing defenseman and that in itself is extremely valuable.

His development since the draft has pointed upward and in rapid fashion. He went from being a very raw prospect to a WJC All Star to one of the best defensemen in a pro league, even close to if not on par with Brodin according to some SEL observers in a span of 2 seasons so there's merit for being excited about his potential.
I don't think anybody is expecting him to break into the Oilers top 4 this season but i think it's reasonable that he could work his way onto the Oilers roster towards the end of the season.

And you are taking too much from one game just by saying that this could very well be the status quo with him and i think it's ridiculous to think that after one exhibition game.

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09-05-2013, 10:56 PM
  #507
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Originally Posted by Hitchslap View Post
This is exactly what I've been thinking. There have been plenty of comparisons from HFOil to Brodin in terms of potential and rookie season impact, when it's been pretty well accepted by people who have watched them play that Brodin has always been a couple steps ahead of Klefbom. Seems like many on here feel comfortable counting their chickens before they hatch. Learn from our past mistakes, guys.

I'm not writing Klefbom off as a bust by any means, but he is definitely not a sure bet to be a bloody top pairing guy despite how some on here speak of him. Let's hope he shows more next game.
Yep, where is the evidence that this is toprank player? Theres no evidence at this point that this is going to be an NHL player period.

Years ago the same posters were waxing on about how good Teubert, or Abney, or Peckham, or whoever would be. We always seem to hype up our unseen prospects possibly due to a need to have hope that theres something better upcoming then what we have currently in the Oilers lineup.

Right now Klef would have to be one of the biggest unknowns due to how much time he's missed.

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09-05-2013, 11:02 PM
  #508
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
He is one of the more valuable players that the organization has.
This is pure claptrap fiction. On what basis?


Quote:
Sure, he's only a prospect but he's our best bet to be a potential 2 way top pairing defenseman and that in itself is extremely valuable.
Not sure how you could conclude this either.

Quote:
His development since the draft has pointed upward and in rapid fashion.
This being gobbledegook.

Quote:
He went from being a very raw prospect to a WJC All Star to one of the best defensemen in a pro league, even close to if not on par with Brodin according to some SEL observers in a span of 2 seasons so there's merit for being excited about his potential.
Some similar SEL observers were saying Omark is Forsberg II. Deserves to be said.


Quote:
I don't think anybody is expecting him to break into the Oilers top 4 this season but i think it's reasonable that he could work his way onto the Oilers roster towards the end of the season.

And you are taking too much from one game just by saying that this could very well be the status quo with him and i think it's ridiculous to think that after one exhibition game.
I don't think anything after 1 exhibition game. I do think something after the last 2 disastrous years that have limited Klefs development. You don't spend the most part of two years being away from hockey and end up still being a toprung D prospect.

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09-05-2013, 11:22 PM
  #509
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I don't take anything from one game. I didn't state that.

What I'm curious is how so many people that haven't seen klef play in ages are instead inferring he's one of the most valuable players the org has. That to me is incomprehensible. That comment and assessment of Klef being a top D is made all over this board.

The game means nothing. Except that it is the primacy information that any of us have to draw on. In essence that in primacy effect, this is what Klef looks like now. That he doesn't look like a top draftpick now. This is a sample of one, sure, but right now a sample of one is all we have to detect where the player is currently at.

I'm not deducing from one game, just saying that what was seen today is maybe more the staqus quo than anybody wants to realize.
So you are saying you are not making a judgement based on one game, but then in the same sentence make a judgement I mean either you are drawing a conclusion based on one game or you are not.

Any way, I thought Klef looked good. He made one give away up the middle, but if you watch it was actually pretty fluky, it just hit the flames stick who wasn't even looking. He made a few other great plays, looked really mobile. He didn't have a good game, but, I thought he actually looked like a player who could play in the NHL this year.

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09-05-2013, 11:23 PM
  #510
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I'm going to enjoy bringing up some comments from this thread in a year or two. Should be good for some laughs.


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09-05-2013, 11:27 PM
  #511
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lol @ the panic in this thread, Klefbom is being hyped because the GM saw him skate with our regular players last season and looked great.

team looked rough but that is due to a limited prep.

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09-05-2013, 11:27 PM
  #512
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Originally Posted by NAF View Post
I'm going to enjoy bringing up some comments from this thread in a year or two. Should be good for some laughs.

Hey one game makes a career, its obvious they have not played all summer no excuse they should all be in beast mode. Klefbom is a bust its fact now just read the posts.

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09-05-2013, 11:28 PM
  #513
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Lets not forget in our prospects camp after the draft that Klefa was far and away the best-looking prospect there.

The negativity of some of the fans is laughable to me at times.

Just trade Klefbom for Penner and get it over with, he's obviously a bust.

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09-05-2013, 11:29 PM
  #514
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Replacement does have a valid concern due to any player missing that much hockey. But none of his play today was due to physical concerns and i've seen what he can do in rookie camp which isn't perfect but Klef is the last player i'd be worried about. Musil on the other hand....

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09-05-2013, 11:30 PM
  #515
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For the record I don't even get why we are freaking out about Klefbom. Nurse was horrible. I am not saying we should freak out about him either, just saying if your going to freak out about some one, freak out about Nurse.

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09-05-2013, 11:31 PM
  #516
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Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
So you are saying you are not making a judgement based on one game, but then in the same sentence make a judgement I mean either you are drawing a conclusion based on one game or you are not.

Any way, I thought Klef looked good. He made one give away up the middle, but if you watch it was actually pretty fluky, it just hit the flames stick who wasn't even looking. He made a few other great plays, looked really mobile. He didn't have a good game, but, I thought he actually looked like a player who could play in the NHL this year.
I don't think you completely followed what I carefully wrote.

I've drawn a conclusion that Klefs development has been impacted, probably severely, due to missing so much hockey over the last 2 years. Again, and I repeat, this assessment has nothing to do with Klef specifically, I would state this concern for any D rank prospect that has missed this much time. People chronically underestimate how much impact something like this has on development. I've said this before re: Klefbom though, the game really not changing anything for me in that I'm not at all surprised how he looks.

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09-05-2013, 11:36 PM
  #517
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Yep, where is the evidence that this is toprank player? Theres no evidence at this point that this is going to be an NHL player period.

Years ago the same posters were waxing on about how good Teubert, or Abney, or Peckham, or whoever would be. We always seem to hype up our unseen prospects possibly due to a need to have hope that theres something better upcoming then what we have currently in the Oilers lineup.

Right now Klef would have to be one of the biggest unknowns due to how much time he's missed.
You can never talk about evidence until anyone has stepped onto an NHL ice, but as far as things pointing to him being a great prospect I don't think you can do much better than being a WJC all star, being a top 5 D man in the 3rd-4th strongest pro league in the world and having hockey people on both side of the pond gushing.

The guys mostly responsible for the hype here on HF are swedes like myself who have seen him play quite a lot and been mightily impressed. I still think he's going to be a great player and that once(if) he gets back to where he was pre-injury he's NHL ready. There are ofcourse never any guarantees and I could be completely wrong.

But what you're basically saying is that it's extremly hard to predict how well prospects are going to do in the NHL. No ****. And though I agree that some people get a bit carried away with prospects I think it's more fun to speculate than to just say "we'll see what happens when he steps on an NHL ice" about every prospect, because that's all we can do with any kind of certainty.

Obviously you like discussing prospects, otherwise what are you doing in a prospect thread? So you too clearly like to speculate over what might become of young players. Let's do that an not focus on other posters tendencies to hype up prospects. You didn't like what you saw of Klefbom. Which players did impress you?

What is it with you and swedes btw? I'm starting to think you might show up outside my house with a burning cross wearing a white cross Has there ever been a swedish player you liked?

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09-05-2013, 11:39 PM
  #518
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I don't think you completely followed what I carefully wrote.

I've drawn a conclusion that Klefs development has been impacted, probably severely, due to missing so much hockey over the last 2 years. Again, and I repeat, this assessment has nothing to do with Klef specifically, I would state this concern for any D rank prospect that has missed this much time. People chronically underestimate how much impact something like this has on development. I've said this before re: Klefbom though, the game really not changing anything for me in that I'm not at all surprised how he looks.
Two years? He's really only had any major injury concerns last season. The year before he totalled around 80 games seen over the whole season not counting preseason games.

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09-05-2013, 11:39 PM
  #519
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
This is pure claptrap fiction. On what basis?


Not sure how you could conclude this either.

This being gobbledegook.

Some similar SEL observers were saying Omark is Forsberg II. Deserves to be said.


I don't think anything after 1 exhibition game. I do think something after the last 2 disastrous years that have limited Klefs development. You don't spend the most part of two years being away from hockey and end up still being a toprung D prospect.
Who is a better bet in the organization to be a POTENTIAL top pairing defenseman? Note the word potential so don't say stuff like people are expecting him to be a top pairing defenseman.

He missed the majority of last season, played most of the previous season and was a WJC All Star that season as well, not sure where you got 2 seasons of missed time from and even more ridiculously 2 disastrous seasons from. BTW, it's not only Swedish posters who were pumping his tires. There were many scouting reports that were raving about his rise up the SEL ranks.
I would agree that the injuries are somewhat of a concern but he's very young and build very strongly so i doubt that the injuries will have any long term effect.

You do seem to be jumping to conclusions by saying that what we saw in this game could be status quo with him. It would be equally ridiculous for somebody to claim that he's ready to dominate the NHL if he had a great game tonight.

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09-05-2013, 11:40 PM
  #520
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Replacement does have a valid concern due to any player missing that much hockey. But none of his play today was due to physical concerns and i've seen what he can do in rookie camp which isn't perfect but Klef is the last player i'd be worried about. Musil on the other hand....
Thank you for actually taking the time to actually consider what I stated.

Just to add though its not just about physical concerns at all. A prospect could be 100% healthy and still suffer coordination effects for a long time due to hockey being the most complicated team sport on the planet requiring extensive fine motor control. All the gym work, rehab, etc. does nothing to replace the game of hockey played at toplevel. Its simply extremely difficult for any developing D to get back to that level after missing a large part of two years.

Pro hockey is the hardest game to learn period. D,due to all requirements and being able to move adroitly in any direction being arguably the hardest position to learn/relearn. From Neurons, synapses, to cerebral awareness everything has to be relearned to some degree. It has been that long.

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09-05-2013, 11:40 PM
  #521
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I don't think you completely followed what I carefully wrote.

I've drawn a conclusion that Klefs development has been impacted, probably severely, due to missing so much hockey over the last 2 years. Again, and I repeat, this assessment has nothing to do with Klef specifically, I would state this concern for any D rank prospect that has missed this much time. People chronically underestimate how much impact something like this has on development. I've said this before re: Klefbom though, the game really not changing anything for me in that I'm not at all surprised how he looks.
Sweeden plays what 45 games, so he missed 30 games over the last two years. Ya, that will hurt your development, but severely? I think that is a pretty strong word. I mean either you like Klef of you don't, it is fine if you think he is over rated, but just say it. You seem to be hiding behind a cloud of words to cover up the fact that you don't think he is a great player and this one game confirmed your belief. Fine, I don't agree though, and I don't think most of the board does.

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09-05-2013, 11:43 PM
  #522
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Sweeden plays what 45 games, so he missed 30 games over the last two years. Ya, that will hurt your development, but severely? I think that is a pretty strong word. I mean either you like Klef of you don't, it is fine if you think he is over rated, but just say it. You seem to be hiding behind a cloud of words to cover up the fact that you don't think he is a great player and this one game confirmed your belief. Fine, I don't agree though, and I don't think most of the board does.
Plurality of thought does not = truth.

If it did Omark, Brule, Peckham, Brown, Teubert, etc are all great players.

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09-05-2013, 11:45 PM
  #523
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For the record I don't even get why we are freaking out about Klefbom. Nurse was horrible. I am not saying we should freak out about him either, just saying if your going to freak out about some one, freak out about Nurse.
Yeah, he was terribad. I didn't want the Oilers to draft him in the first place, but after seeing this one game I feel pretty confident in saying that he's got no hockey IQ and will be an official bust by the time his ELC expires. I would say the same about any prospect after a single game like that. I could get into the science of the primacy quotient involved in my rigorous analysis, but I wouldn't want to bore you. ;P

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09-05-2013, 11:45 PM
  #524
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Two years? He's really only had any major injury concerns last season. The year before he totalled around 80 games seen over the whole season not counting preseason games.
Yeah, I'm not sure why people are talking like he hasn't played a game in 2 years.

He's played 80+ games between the last two seasons. That's more games than guys like Simpson and Laleggia have played in the same span.

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09-05-2013, 11:46 PM
  #525
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Plurality of thought does not = truth.

If it did Omark, Brule, Peckham, Brown, Teubert, etc are all great players.
First, I don't think any of those guys had as much support as klef does. second, of course your right. Every one in the NHL could think he will be a stud and he could still be a bust. I guess we will find out. I am not basing much on your insight that his development has been severely hampered though. Hall basically had the same surgery last year, it didn't seem to severely hamper his development.

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