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Young Stars Tournament | Oilers vs Flames | 5pm

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Old
09-05-2013, 11:49 PM
  #526
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Who is a better bet in the organization to be a POTENTIAL top pairing defenseman? Note the word potential so don't say stuff like people are expecting him to be a top pairing defenseman.
J Schultz clearly has the best potential and not even close. After that with all the young D in our org its a crapshoot. It could well be that none of them are anywhere close to be a top pairing D or shutdown D. I wouldn't go out on a limb and say any of the others are.

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He missed the majority of last season, played most of the previous season and was a WJC All Star that season as well, not sure where you got 2 seasons of missed time from and even more ridiculously 2 disastrous seasons from. BTW, it's not only Swedish posters who were pumping his tires. There were many scouting reports that were raving about his rise up the SEL ranks.
I would agree that the injuries are somewhat of a concern but he's very young and build very strongly so i doubt that the injuries will have any long term effect.
Bah, my memory has it that he suffered injuries in the last 2 years and if I'm wrong on that chalk it up to age and sorry bout that.

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You do seem to be jumping to conclusions by saying that what we saw in this game could be status quo with him. It would be equally ridiculous for somebody to claim that he's ready to dominate the NHL if he had a great game tonight.
With the bolded we agree.

But D is an exceedingly difficult position to play at a high shutdown level and Klef has a lot of silky smooth in his optimal game. Its hard to get that optimal coordination finely tuned and back even to what it was. When he does that he'll still be a year at least behind his graduating class.. Doesn't help that he decided to play in Europe longer and I state this due to the position he's playing.

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09-05-2013, 11:50 PM
  #527
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Originally Posted by NAF View Post
Yeah, he was terribad. I didn't want the Oilers to draft him in the first place, but after seeing this one game I feel pretty confident in saying that he's got no hockey IQ and will be an official bust by the time his ELC expires. I would say the same about any prospect after a single game like that. I could get into the science of the primacy quotient involved in my rigorous analysis, but I wouldn't want to bore you. ;P
I am fine with Nurse. The thing is when he was drafted I felt a lot of people were getting ahead of them selves with his all around ability. I am pretty confident that he will never be a 40 point D man in the NHL. however, I still think he can be a top end shut down type D man. More than anything he was just trying way to much with the puck. Stuff he can do in Juniors but has to realize he can't do in the NHL.

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09-05-2013, 11:52 PM
  #528
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You can never talk about evidence until anyone has stepped onto an NHL ice, but as far as things pointing to him being a great prospect I don't think you can do much better than being a WJC all star, being a top 5 D man in the 3rd-4th strongest pro league in the world and having hockey people on both side of the pond gushing.

The guys mostly responsible for the hype here on HF are swedes like myself who have seen him play quite a lot and been mightily impressed. I still think he's going to be a great player and that once(if) he gets back to where he was pre-injury he's NHL ready. There are ofcourse never any guarantees and I could be completely wrong.

But what you're basically saying is that it's extremly hard to predict how well prospects are going to do in the NHL. No ****. And though I agree that some people get a bit carried away with prospects I think it's more fun to speculate than to just say "we'll see what happens when he steps on an NHL ice" about every prospect, because that's all we can do with any kind of certainty.

Obviously you like discussing prospects, otherwise what are you doing in a prospect thread? So you too clearly like to speculate over what might become of young players. Let's do that an not focus on other posters tendencies to hype up prospects. You didn't like what you saw of Klefbom. Which players did impress you?

What is it with you and swedes btw? I'm starting to think you might show up outside my house with a burning cross wearing a white cross Has there ever been a swedish player you liked?
Looks like I was wrong about the timespan, again, sorry about that. Still going to take a longtime.

Can't really answer your latter question. Oilers have dealt or lost a lot of players I would prefer to be seeing.

Of course I likes me some Swedish players. Prefer long haired curvy blondes though tbh

This was my avatar for years here...


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09-05-2013, 11:53 PM
  #529
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Plurality of thought does not = truth.

If it did Omark, Brule, Peckham, Brown, Teubert, etc are all great players.
Hahaha. "I'll see your argumentum ad populum and raise you a false equivalence." Love it.

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09-05-2013, 11:53 PM
  #530
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Flames fan in peace. I wouldn't be too upset about the under performance by some of your D today. As others have said, it's a prospects game, and there wasn't a camp or anything of signifigant length here to establish a chemistry or anything, and defensive structure isn't something that just happens. Add to that the fact that, on paper at least, the group of forwards we had out there outclasses yours entirely, and it wasn't an easy task for the defense this evening.

This is more of a way to see our prospects in action, since tryingto see the juniors.AHL can be a lot harder. These games aren't a be all end all kind of deal, so they shouldn't be taken too seriously. I'm just enjoying seeing some of the young guys for the Flames, and seeing how much more talent we've added to the prospect cupboard the last three years personally.

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09-05-2013, 11:55 PM
  #531
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Hahaha. "I'll see your argumentum ad populum and raise you a false equivalence." Love it.
lol, can't beat that one, always enjoy the exchanges.

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09-06-2013, 12:00 AM
  #532
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I am fine with Nurse. The thing is when he was drafted I felt a lot of people were getting ahead of them selves with his all around ability. I am pretty confident that he will never be a 40 point D man in the NHL. however, I still think he can be a top end shut down type D man. More than anything he was just trying way to much with the puck. Stuff he can do in Juniors but has to realize he can't do in the NHL.
I dunno. I just don't figure he thinks the game well enough to have top end potential. For me, he's never looked like much more than a 5-6 D. A physical shutdown guy with above-average mobility for his size. Which is fine. What NHL team doesn't want that? But if he becomes a top pairing guy, I'll be happy as heck, but i'm certainly not counting on it (not that I really count on any prospect)

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09-06-2013, 12:02 AM
  #533
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I dunno. I just don't figure he thinks the game well enough to have top end potential. For me, he's never looked like much more than a 5-6 D. A physical shutdown guy with above-average mobility for his size. Which is fine. What NHL team doesn't want that? But if he becomes a top pairing guy, I'll be happy as heck, but i'm certainly not counting on it (not that I really count on any prospect)
I don't think he has top end potential, people were talking Pronger after the draft which is just nuts. He could still be a #2 shut down, Marc Staal maybe, or something like type any way. He just has to learn what he can and can't do with the puck. He has a great work ethic and competes. He will at worst be a Smid type defender. I don't think thats bad.

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09-06-2013, 12:03 AM
  #534
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lol, can't beat that one, always enjoy the exchanges.

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09-06-2013, 12:10 AM
  #535
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Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
I don't think he has top end potential, people were talking Pronger after the draft which is just nuts. He could still be a #2 shut down, Marc Staal maybe, or something like type any way. He just has to learn what he can and can't do with the puck. He has a great work ethic and competes. He will at worst be a Smid type defender. I don't think thats bad.
Yeah, that's fair. Pretty close to my thinking. At the end of the day, he's a fine prospect to have in the system. I certainly like him more than I ever liked Teubert, Plante or Peckham. I still think we would have been better off taking Nichushkin at #7, though. :/

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09-06-2013, 12:22 AM
  #536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
I don't think he has top end potential, people were talking Pronger after the draft which is just nuts. He could still be a #2 shut down, Marc Staal maybe, or something like type any way. He just has to learn what he can and can't do with the puck. He has a great work ethic and competes. He will at worst be a Smid type defender. I don't think thats bad.
Nurse always gets the Pronger comparison because of his nastiness and type of physicality.

I don't think anyone is predicting Nurse to be a 50 point per year HoF defenseman.

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09-06-2013, 12:42 AM
  #537
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I still think Nurse will be ridiculous in 3-4 years. He seems like he is just overzealous atm, probably "trying too hard" really. I am not putting much stock in this tourny. Many players look crappy once and awhile. As far as Klefbom, he seemed like he was trying to cover for Nurse a bit thus some what suffering in the same was as N. Schultz; although, that giveaway was a bit brutal (what Dman hasn't screwed up a pass like that?).


I think the glaring issue is a lack of decent forwards. Boy has Tambo screwed the pooch. Sure looks like mostly a team with no skill, MacT was right when drafting for skill over other factors.

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09-06-2013, 02:02 AM
  #538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
I don't think he has top end potential, people were talking Pronger after the draft which is just nuts. He could still be a #2 shut down, Marc Staal maybe, or something like type any way. He just has to learn what he can and can't do with the puck. He has a great work ethic and competes. He will at worst be a Smid type defender. I don't think thats bad.
Nurse has the potential to be a Jeff Beukaboom or Luc Richardson type, with more of a mean streak/fighter element. anyone thinking he has top pairing potential is bound to be disappointed. he will be our second pairing horse.

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09-06-2013, 02:08 AM
  #539
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I think this team just needs some re-organisation.

Kessy - Khaira - Roy
Fyten - Ewanyk - Chase
Houck - Petryk - Bilkie
Baddock - Schaber -Platzer

Marincin - Gernat
Klefbom - Davidson
Betker - Nurse

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09-06-2013, 02:10 AM
  #540
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I think Klefbom has been pretty hyped, partly due to always beeing compared with Brodin. "Since Brodin made it... Klef can't be far behind."

Being out for almost a full season will surley have hurt his development, the question is how much. Is it a bit rust, did he regress? and so on. I think he will be fine but the question is how long will it take.

I'm more worried about Nurse, but he's got time aswell.

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09-06-2013, 02:59 AM
  #541
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Nurse is 3-4 years away from the NHL, so everyone can just relax.

Klefbom should get a long stay in the AHL this season, playing 25+ minutes in all situations. Absolutely no reason to rush him and I'd be stunned if he's any better than Grebs or Belov (I will admit he could be better than Larsen or Potter...)

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09-06-2013, 03:34 AM
  #542
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game one message

"This board needs to relax"

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09-06-2013, 05:56 AM
  #543
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Really, people are upset about this? It's one prospect game with little or no practice. Klefbom is not a bad player but hasn't played for almost a year.

Nurse is a skinny noodle that no one expects to make the big club. To top that off, our top prospects are already playing in the NHL.

Not really any reason to get cranky. The Flames can have this one. False hope never hurts anyone.

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09-06-2013, 06:41 AM
  #544
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Good on Mac-T in bringing in legitimate talent to the roster and not just banking on these young guys to step up.

In years past we blindly allowed guys like rookie Smid to make the roster because we plain and simple didn't have the depth. Even guys like Potter, Strudwick, Cross, Whitney in years past have been able to make the roster on the basis of there being no depth/competition to force them out of that 6/7 spot.

Now we have guys like Grebeshkov, Belov, Larsen, Marincin pushing for the last 6/7 spots, which means that if a guy like Klefbom makes the team this year (which he likely would have in years past) - he's going to have truly earn it.

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09-06-2013, 07:30 AM
  #545
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Originally Posted by AlowlyOilersfan View Post
I think this team just needs some re-organisation.

Kessy - Khaira - Roy
Fyten - Ewanyk - Chase
Houck - Petryk - Bilkie
Baddock - Schaber -Platzer

Marincin - Gernat
Klefbom - Davidson
Betker - Nurse
They need Zharkov Slepyshev Yakimov

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09-06-2013, 07:57 AM
  #546
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Anyone trashing a single player after one rookie game should go tie a cinderblock to their ankle and jump into the river.
Cameron Abney's draft position relative to his play with the Oil Kings, Thunder, Barons, and in this game can, will, and should be trashed. The "Theo Nurse" comments are ridiculous though, 18 year olds are allowed to have bad games.

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09-06-2013, 10:03 AM
  #547
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Nurse has the potential to be a Jeff Beukaboom or Luc Richardson type, with more of a mean streak/fighter element. anyone thinking he has top pairing potential is bound to be disappointed. he will be our second pairing horse.
It's hard to tell what his potential is yet. Chara was crap for years until he put it all together, Pronger wasnt Pronger when he came in at 18, Duncan Keith was at best mediocre for many years before taking on the top spot in Chicago. Defencemen take time to develop it's that simple. Klefbom might be something good someday but he did miss almost a full season with injury. He wont be rushed into the NHL because he's probably not ready for it and even if he is he'll probably be eased onto the 3rd line. Nurse is a couple years behind Klefbom so we wont know what he is or what he can develop into for many years.

Those two wont be #1 d-men in the next 2-3 years but they are our best shots at getting there eventually and having two pretty good shots with Nurse and Klefbom or three with Schultz though he is an different type of d-man I think is better than having a guy who might be a decent winger in a few years with Nichushkin.

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09-06-2013, 10:11 AM
  #548
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Originally Posted by The Perfect Human View Post
Good on Mac-T in bringing in legitimate talent to the roster and not just banking on these young guys to step up.

In years past we blindly allowed guys like rookie Smid to make the roster because we plain and simple didn't have the depth. Even guys like Potter, Strudwick, Cross, Whitney in years past have been able to make the roster on the basis of there being no depth/competition to force them out of that 6/7 spot.

Now we have guys like Grebeshkov, Belov, Larsen, Marincin pushing for the last 6/7 spots, which means that if a guy like Klefbom makes the team this year (which he likely would have in years past) - he's going to have truly earn it.
+1, very well said

It is time for the org to focus on winning, not developing players in the NHL. I like what Mact and the coaches are saying about playing time based on results. I have seen too much of rookies in over their heads and vets not being pushed to be their best.

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09-06-2013, 10:14 AM
  #549
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I still think Nurse will be ridiculous in 3-4 years. He seems like he is just overzealous atm, probably "trying too hard" really. I am not putting much stock in this tourny. Many players look crappy once and awhile. As far as Klefbom, he seemed like he was trying to cover for Nurse a bit thus some what suffering in the same was as N. Schultz; although, that giveaway was a bit brutal (what Dman hasn't screwed up a pass like that?).


I think the glaring issue is a lack of decent forwards. Boy has Tambo screwed the pooch. Sure looks like mostly a team with no skill, MacT was right when drafting for skill over other factors.
Uh, this team was assembled by MacTavish, not Tambo, and the reason we don't have Rajala or Nichuskin on this team (both of whom we need) has to do with Craig MacTavish, and nobody else.

Andrew Miller looks like garbage, and, at 25 years old, should be able to make a play or two out there. What is MacTavish thinking bringing him in?

Roy looks like a very good pick, and Betker looks pretty decent for a late round pick, but nothing else MacT has done looks good at all.

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09-06-2013, 10:18 AM
  #550
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O ya and everyone was saying Magnus would be the best of the kids after this tourney...we need to take off our tinfoil hats for a bit.

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