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Old
09-05-2013, 02:36 PM
  #976
Eddy Punch Clock
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Burke tried to get the Sedins (or was at least very interested in signing them IF they hit free agency) as well during his time as the Leafs GM.
No no no .... you got it all wrong.

Burke only ever boarded that plane for Sweden on July 1st to check out some prospect goalie.

Otherwise it would have been tampering.


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09-05-2013, 04:52 PM
  #977
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
I guess I would look at these three things. I'll stick to the regular season for now, as there is more data and it's evenly distributed across a more even segment of competition:

1.) Crawford was undoubtedly excellent this season, posting a 934 EV SV%. It was in only 28 starts (30 games), however.

2.) In 2011-2012, Crawford posted a pedestrian .915 EV SV% at even strength over 55 starts (57 games). Those are "good backup" numbers but not much more.

3.) In 2010-2011 over 55 starts (57 games), he posted an above average .924 EV SV%.

If you showed me those numbers without any context but his age (so ignoring whether he's won a Stanley Cup, or what team he played for, or whether his teammates like him), I'd have a few questions:

Were his improved results this year an increase in true talent/ability? That is to say, I'd want to know if he looked better, or whether goalie scouts are convinced he was playing materially better. Lots of goalies get hot for a half season of hockey, but that's not indicative of expected future results.

Further to that point, he was very average the preceding season. Two seasons ago, he was good but not elite, probably a bit better than a James Reimer type goaltender. I'm not sure I look at that body of work and conclude that he'll be better than the good-but-not-great camp of goaltenders, guys who bounce around 920-925 at EV play each season.

On a team like the Hawks, that's more than enough. My issue would be that with the term they gave him, they're paying him like a guy who you would expect a 927-928 EV SV% out of year to year, and I don't know if I see that there, but goaltending is part voodoo magic anyway, and the Hawks can afford to make a few mistakes. It does seem like an overpayment to me. I would have expected something like 3-4 years at 5m per, max.
Totally fair analysis, and that's why like I said while I don't hate the deal, it does have the possibility of busting big time if Crawford doesn't play at or near his level of last season.

In CC's defense, the Hawk defense was pretty bad in 2011, average in 2012, and superb in 2013 so he's a guy whose performance will depend primarily on the team in front of him for the most part (excepting that 2011 series vs you guys where he was literally the glue holding the team together) Now do you want to give 6X6 to a guy like that? I can understand both sides.

I'm surprised they gave out a contract like that, but he's been a homegrown guy from the beginning so I imagine that factored into the decision as well. In the interim, this contract is probably an overpayment (unless he plays like he did last year, then it's a fair contract+), but as the cap rises, the 6 mil probably won't look as bad so it will be moveable, I guess we'll have to see.

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09-06-2013, 08:03 AM
  #978
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Old
09-06-2013, 08:04 AM
  #979
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Okay just one. These jerseys suck.

I mean, thank god it at least says "CANADA" under the maple leaf, how else would I even know what team these sweaters belong to?!

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09-06-2013, 08:44 AM
  #980
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That's a jersey? It looks as though Toews raided his Dad's closet and stole a knock-off sweater from his Dad's frat days.

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09-06-2013, 08:45 AM
  #981
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I am in the minority, but I actually really like those jerseys.

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09-06-2013, 08:49 AM
  #982
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
I am in the minority, but I actually really like those jerseys.
It's one of those that's impossible to properly judge until they're actually out on the ice, wearing them. Might look really cool or it might look totally horrible.

(As opposed to a clear miss like that new Buffalo jersey. On-ice, off-ice, in a dumpster, outside a dumpster but on fire, etc. it's still going to look bad.)

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09-06-2013, 09:21 AM
  #983
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Originally Posted by Kesler2Burrows View Post
Though I agree that doesn't refute the fact that Hjalmarsson is the better player 80% of the time.

He's more consistent, but I would not say he's better. Bieksa may be very inconsistent, but when he's on, few replace him. When he's off, it's more apparent than when Hjarlmarsson is off. Different players.

Again, I'm not a huge Bieksa backer. Too inconsistent for me to offer full support, but I recognize that what he brings is unique, even amongst our Dcorps let alone the league, and his value is found within that skillset.

Would you deal Bieksa for Hjarlmarsson?

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Old
09-06-2013, 09:41 AM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
I am in the minority, but I actually really like those jerseys.
Honestly I don't think they are that bad.

(I do hate the "hey maybe we should put the city/country name on the front - just in case nobody recognizes the iconic logo that's been around for decades" trend though.)

Like Tiranis says, the full kit could end up looking great out on the ice. And within the larger trend of 2014 Olympic jerseys I'd say we got off light compared to what the Americans (and to a lesser extent the Russians) are wearing.

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09-06-2013, 09:46 AM
  #985
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
It's one of those that's impossible to properly judge until they're actually out on the ice, wearing them. Might look really cool or it might look totally horrible.

(As opposed to a clear miss like that new Buffalo jersey. On-ice, off-ice, in a dumpster, outside a dumpster but on fire, etc. it's still going to look bad.)
That's pretty much how I feel. From an aesthetic viewpoint, it's very clean. I like that it's just red and white without a lot of ugly banding. I think branding "Canada" on it makes sense, too -- in much the same way that I don't always recognize foreign flags in the Olympics. It also makes sense from a sales perspective, which is probably why it says "Vancouver" on the current Canucks jerseys they unveiled shortly before the 2010 Olympics (cha ching!).

I think those Team Canada jerseys would look spectacular with white helmes, white gloves, and -- dare I say it -- some hockey shorts that heavily incorporate some white, possibly even as the primary colour. Plus they could look incredible with some white goalie equipment.

I dunno. I'm over every jersey using the striping around the sleeves or waistline.

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Old
09-06-2013, 09:49 AM
  #986
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Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
Honestly I don't think they are that bad.

(I do hate the "hey maybe we should put the city/country name on the front - just in case nobody recognizes the iconic logo that's been around for decades" trend though.)

Like Tiranis says, the full kit could end up looking great out on the ice. And within the larger trend of 2014 Olympic jerseys I'd say we got off light compared to what the Americans (and to a lesser extent the Russians) are wearing.
The trend I hate the most... and really do hate it... is the absence of piping/stripes.

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09-06-2013, 09:50 AM
  #987
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Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
Honestly I don't think they are that bad.

(I do hate the "hey maybe we should put the city/country name on the front - just in case nobody recognizes the iconic logo that's been around for decades" trend though.)

Like Tiranis says, the full kit could end up looking great out on the ice. And within the larger trend of 2014 Olympic jerseys I'd say we got off light compared to what the Americans (and to a lesser extent the Russians) are wearing.
Yeah, but first impression is that it's better than most of the recent jerseys, especially those terrible 90's incarnations with the giant half maple leaf scrawled over half the front of the jersey.

I don't mind it saying "Canada" because there will surely be some people watching from somewhere in Africa or Taiwan or wherever that might not immediately find it recognizable. There are a ton of European nations it takes me a second to figure out when I'm watching...

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09-06-2013, 09:52 AM
  #988
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Originally Posted by Eddy Punch Clock View Post
The trend I hate the most... and really do hate it... is the absence of piping/stripes.
We're polar opposites, I guess. I think you can provide that contrast with a different coloured glove.

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Old
09-06-2013, 10:02 AM
  #989
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
We're polar opposites, I guess. I think you can provide that contrast with a different coloured glove.
Uniforms need to be seen in action on ice to fully be appreciated... I'll give you that.

But I didn't like when the Oilers and Leafs did it... I'm not expecting to like these ones much once I see them.

I'm not a fan of the "cleaner" look. It comes across more like pajamas to me.

In fact, hows this for a conspiracy theory.....*the trend of going cleaner with the sweaters is so that it makes it easier in the future to transition into a Euro style sweater with advertising all over it.

*removes foil hat*

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Old
09-06-2013, 10:04 AM
  #990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
We're polar opposites, I guess. I think you can provide that contrast with a different coloured glove.
What?

What side am I on? I absolutely hate the piping on the Rbk Edge jerseys, and hate even more there are no stripes on the bottom of the jerseys. To me, that's just the stupidest thing possible. The jerseys with piping and/or no stripes look like practice jerseys. Just so juevenile.

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Old
09-06-2013, 10:06 AM
  #991
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
Yeah, but first impression is that it's better than most of the recent jerseys, especially those terrible 90's incarnations with the giant half maple leaf scrawled over half the front of the jersey.

I don't mind it saying "Canada" because there will surely be some people watching from somewhere in Africa or Taiwan or wherever that might not immediately find it recognizable. There are a ton of European nations it takes me a second to figure out when I'm watching...
Really?

*tries and fails to find an emoticon indicating that I will indulge this claim, but only playfully/condescendingly as I find it ludicrous*

Maybe being a lifelong Canadian hockey fan clouds my judgement but within the realm of ice hockey, if there is an iconic country, logo and set of colours then surely it is Canada, the maple leaf, and white on red.

Only the USA would be more recognizeable for its red/white/blue but even then several other countries use the same colours.

Anyway I don't think you can compare the struggle to discern between say, the Slovakian, Slovenian and Czech (and Norwegian and American and Russian) kits at a glance to Canada and.. Switzerland I guess has the same colours.

Even if there isn't surely the Maple Leaf is far more recognizeable at any distance than a small script underneath it.

And putting aside all of this, if you are that African dude are you really going to change the channel because it takes a couple of moments to get an idea of which team is which? That's not generally how it goes for me when I watch unfamiliar sports..

Anyway. I hate the trend so I'm going overboard here.

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09-06-2013, 10:11 AM
  #992
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
It's one of those that's impossible to properly judge until they're actually out on the ice, wearing them. Might look really cool or it might look totally horrible.

(As opposed to a clear miss like that new Buffalo jersey. On-ice, off-ice, in a dumpster, outside a dumpster but on fire, etc. it's still going to look bad.)
I don't know, I liked the jersey Toews was wearing.

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09-06-2013, 10:14 AM
  #993
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Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
Really?

*tries and fails to find an emoticon indicating that I will indulge this claim, but only playfully/condescendingly as I find it ludicrous*

Maybe being a lifelong Canadian hockey fan clouds my judgement but within the realm of ice hockey, if there is an iconic country, logo and set of colours then surely it is Canada, the maple leaf, and white on red.

Only the USA would be more recognizeable for its red/white/blue but even then several other countries use the same colours.

Anyway I don't think you can compare the struggle to discern between say, the Slovakian, Slovenian and Czech (and Norwegian and American and Russian) kits at a glance to Canada and.. Switzerland I guess has the same colours.

Even if there isn't surely the Maple Leaf is far more recognizeable at any distance than a small script underneath it.

And putting aside all of this, if you are that African dude are you really going to change the channel because it takes a couple of moments to get an idea of which team is which? That's not generally how it goes for me when I watch unfamiliar sports..

Anyway. I hate the trend so I'm going overboard here.
No, but if you're selling a brand -- and that's what Canada is selling at the Olympics -- then it makes a certain sort of sense. I don't really have an opinion on it one way or another.

Heck, one of the most iconic logos in NA sports is the 'NY' of the New York Yankees.

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09-06-2013, 10:38 AM
  #994
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He's more consistent, but I would not say he's better. Bieksa may be very inconsistent, but when he's on, few replace him. When he's off, it's more apparent than when Hjarlmarsson is off. Different players.

Again, I'm not a huge Bieksa backer. Too inconsistent for me to offer full support, but I recognize that what he brings is unique, even amongst our Dcorps let alone the league, and his value is found within that skillset.

Would you deal Bieksa for Hjarlmarsson?
Good question, in terms of market value I'd argue Hjalmarsson has more. But in terms of value to our team and qualities Bieksa' bring like on and off ice relationships, leadership and grit I likely wouldn't move Bieksa for Hjalmarsson. That and the fact I think Garrison and Hjalmarsson are near identical players.

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09-06-2013, 10:45 AM
  #995
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Even Toews is like "wtf is this ****?!"

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09-06-2013, 10:54 AM
  #996
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
No, but if you're selling a brand -- and that's what Canada is selling at the Olympics -- then it makes a certain sort of sense. I don't really have an opinion on it one way or another.

Heck, one of the most iconic logos in NA sports is the 'NY' of the New York Yankees.
Fair enough.

I feel like the Baseball tradition (NY Yankees, Bosox, Detroit tigers, to a lesser extent the Dodgers and Mets, Braves, Phillies, etc) kind of gets a pass particularly because they haven't usually featured great big logos on the front of their jerseys the way hockey teams do.

Even then it's kind of the combination that I think is both unappealing and unnecessary - we know they are the Canucks because of the colours and constipated whale and all that, we don't need "VANCOUVER" across the top. We know it's Canada because of the red with the white Maple Leaf.

But yes we are most definitely in the age of branding.. I can't argue with that (although I can most definitely still hate it ).

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09-06-2013, 11:04 AM
  #997
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I think the "Vancouver" on the Canucks jerseys is worse from an aesthetic perspective, as it draws attention to itself. The reason I don't mind the "Canada" is because it's understated. It strikes me more as a visual contract to the logo rather than a stark appeal to consumerism. But I'm slicing things quite finely here.

Honestly, I just think it evokes a kind of fusion of 60s design philosophy that's very European, and I dig that. But I want white gloves and pants and helmets

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09-06-2013, 11:20 AM
  #998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kesler2Burrows View Post
Good question, in terms of market value I'd argue Hjalmarsson has more. But in terms of value to our team and qualities Bieksa' bring like on and off ice relationships, leadership and grit I likely wouldn't move Bieksa for Hjalmarsson. That and the fact I think Garrison and Hjalmarsson are near identical players.
Agree with you here. Hjalmar and Juice are totally different players. As much as I like to harp on Juice, I totally get where he is coming from, in rollerhockey I am the same player as him. But he needs to be more responsible defensively, like Garrison. That's why I think him with Hamhuis works so well, he doesn't need to be the one to chip in offensively, he just needs to punch players like Toews or Thornton in the head a few times and make sure they don't score.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
I think the "Vancouver" on the Canucks jerseys is worse from an aesthetic perspective, as it draws attention to itself. The reason I don't mind the "Canada" is because it's understated. It strikes me more as a visual contract to the logo rather than a stark appeal to consumerism. But I'm slicing things quite finely here.

Honestly, I just think it evokes a kind of fusion of 60s design philosophy that's very European, and I dig that. But I want white gloves and pants and helmets
Yep. The Vancouver wording is ugly, but it works here because it is not the forefront of the jersey (which should be, and always hopefully will be, the maple leaf). Vancouver I hope goes back to the stick in the rink logo. Because that is our history, and what looks best for us aesthetically.

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09-06-2013, 11:45 AM
  #999
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I actually don't mind it as a stand alone like how Toews is wearing it... I'm not sure how it would look on the ice though.

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09-06-2013, 11:54 AM
  #1000
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Originally Posted by Kesler2Burrows View Post
Good question, in terms of market value I'd argue Hjalmarsson has more. But in terms of value to our team and qualities Bieksa' bring like on and off ice relationships, leadership and grit I likely wouldn't move Bieksa for Hjalmarsson. That and the fact I think Garrison and Hjalmarsson are near identical players.

Yeah, that hesitation to move Bieksa for NH says it right there.

Garrison plays heavies and has that great shot. These are distinct facets NH doesn't have. IMO, that's what holds NH back from that class of player. I value Garrison more.

Tanev, when he reaches his potential, I hope rounds out to be like NH.

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