HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

The Out of Town Thread part LXVII - All Talk From Around the League Here

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-06-2013, 12:37 PM
  #76
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 17,791
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
I'm feeling an offer sheet from Calgary for Kadri...

- they have the need
- they've done a decent job of re-stocking prospect depth & have organizational culture of being cavalier with picks in favor of "now" additions
- ownership wants playoffs desperately
- Burke has an ax to grind with mlse
- Kadri's aunt worked in Calgary & he still has other family in the city (precense of extended family could ease the decision to move out west)

If he's not inked by season start, I'd bet on it
Not going to happen. Esp after he went ape **** all over Edmonton... I'd be really shocked to see this happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
His ego won't let him say he was wrong in public/media.
Tough for him to do this when Kessel is still playing. If he trashed the trade everyone would say he has no class. And to be fair to him, Kessel has been a top scorer the past couple of years...

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
09-06-2013, 12:37 PM
  #77
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 20,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
I agree. Toronto got the best player. End of story.

Leaf hating is fun but not when you have to act stupid to do it.
Exactly. Burke has had the best player in the deal the entire time, and we're still talking about the future tense in terms of when Seguin/Hamilton will be "worth it". Steep price to pay, imo, for someone who obviously isn't enough to put them over the hump by himself, but Kessel is still by far the better and most productive player from that deal.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline  
Old
09-06-2013, 12:44 PM
  #78
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 17,791
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Exactly. Burke has had the best player in the deal the entire time, and we're still talking about the future tense in terms of when Seguin/Hamilton will be "worth it". Steep price to pay, imo, for someone who obviously isn't enough to put them over the hump by himself, but Kessel is still by far the better and most productive player from that deal.
I think it was a bad trade knowing what was known at the time. I don't believe in making these kinds of trades when you should be rebuilding.

That being said, Kessel has been fantastic for the past couple of years and that trade looks a hell of a lot better now than it did even a year ago. Burke has certainly gotten at least some vindication here.

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
09-06-2013, 12:55 PM
  #79
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 20,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I think it was a bad trade knowing what was known at the time. I don't believe in making these kinds of trades when you should be rebuilding.

That being said, Kessel has been fantastic for the past couple of years and that trade looks a hell of a lot better now than it did even a year ago. Burke has certainly gotten at least some vindication here.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I wouldn't have done it then, and I wouldn't do it now, but people somehow forget that Burke has had the best player in the deal by far for the past 3 years, and if he was still with the Leafs he'd have the best player still. Just a worse team, lol. I think most would agree that they could have gotten better, faster by pursuing other routes, but that's not the line people usually take when laying on the hatin'.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline  
Old
09-06-2013, 01:49 PM
  #80
WhiskeySeven
Give her the Defence
 
WhiskeySeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,546
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Exactly. Burke has had the best player in the deal the entire time, and we're still talking about the future tense in terms of when Seguin/Hamilton will be "worth it". Steep price to pay, imo, for someone who obviously isn't enough to put them over the hump by himself, but Kessel is still by far the better and most productive player from that deal.
The point isn't to have good players or good futures

THE POINT IS TO WIN A STANLEY CUP.

Boston almost instantly WENT ON TO WIN THE STANLEY CUP. Toronto missed the playoffs for four years.

A division rival, who's fleeced your organization already, gets a bunch of very valuable high round picks and cap space and then within a matter of months manages to pick up FAs with that cap hit and WIN THE STANLEY CUP... THEY WON THE TRADE... AND THE STANLEY CUP.

I'd trade ten first round picks if it meant the Habs win the cup, Toronto essentially GAVE THE BRUINS THE STANLEY CUP.

Stop defending the Leafs and Burke as though they operate in a vacuum, who cares if they got a skinny winger who hasn't won squat - they gave a division rival a lot of cap space, great young assets and favorable conditions for a cup run. Beyond that, the Leafs missed the playoffs every year afterward. Burke and the Leafs lost that trade in every which way, and I can only hope that Kessel leaves as a UFA to some mid-west team and exposes that organization even more.

Seguin being traded has no bearing on the situation as they got another fantastic asset in return and just finished yet another Stanley Cup Final appearance while we're here signing Bouillion and Desharnais and twiddling our thumbs.

WhiskeySeven is offline  
Old
09-06-2013, 01:51 PM
  #81
hototogisu
Global Moderator
Future is Now
 
hototogisu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,129
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I'd trade ten first round picks if it meant the Habs win the cup, Toronto essentially GAVE THE BRUINS THE STANLEY CUP.
This is where you're obscenely off the mark, as usual.

hototogisu is offline  
Old
09-06-2013, 01:52 PM
  #82
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 17,791
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
The point isn't to have good players or good futures

THE POINT IS TO WIN A STANLEY CUP.

Boston almost instantly WENT ON TO WIN THE STANLEY CUP. Toronto missed the playoffs for four years.

A division rival, who's fleeced your organization already, gets a bunch of very valuable high round picks and cap space and then within a matter of months manages to pick up FAs with that cap hit and WIN THE STANLEY CUP... THEY WON THE TRADE... AND THE STANLEY CUP.

I'd trade ten first round picks if it meant the Habs win the cup, Toronto essentially GAVE THE BRUINS THE STANLEY CUP.
Stop defending the Leafs and Burke as though they operate in a vacuum, who cares if they got a skinny winger who hasn't won squat - they gave a division rival a lot of cap space, great young assets and favorable conditions for a cup run. Beyond that, the Leafs missed the playoffs every year afterward. Burke and the Leafs lost that trade in every which way, and I can only hope that Kessel leaves as a UFA to some mid-west team and exposes that organization even more.

Seguin being traded has no bearing on the situation as they got another fantastic asset in return and just finished yet another Stanley Cup Final appearance while we're here signing Bouillion and Desharnais and twiddling our thumbs.
I don't see how this is the case. Boston actually got immediately weaker with that trade and still won the cup. It's kind of like us dealing Chelios for Savard... we won but not because of the trade. Don't get me wrong... I still think Boston was brilliant for making the move but I don't think it was a huge factor in that cup win.

How do you see Seguin as having won them the cup? You could even argue that they might've won the cup last year with Kessel instead of him. Seguin basically went away last postseason.

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
09-06-2013, 01:58 PM
  #83
WhiskeySeven
Give her the Defence
 
WhiskeySeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,546
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
This is where you're obscenely off the mark, as usual.
Interesting jibe there with the "as usual".

I think with Seguin and that cap space they used to sign Horton their team developed a style and depth that surpassed their capabilities with Kessel. Kessel wasn't really a gamebreaker at the time of his trade (and I would argue he isn't a bonafide elite player now either) but yes - he was the most talented player involved. However with Horton and Seguin the Bruins got much depth and that's how they beat every team.

Now if Seguin got them through that series against Tampa Bay, which by all media accounts he was given credit for, and Horton had an overall "decent" playoffs with 3 gwg and the Leafs gave them both Seguin and the cap-space to sign Horton - I'm positing that none of that would've happened had it not been for the trade.

Yes it's speculative but that's exactly how I feel about the trade. The Bruins got talented young players and scoring depth, the Leafs got a winger who hasn't done much of anything for them. They lost the trade, Boston won the cup.

WhiskeySeven is offline  
Old
09-06-2013, 01:59 PM
  #84
Habsawce
Registered User
 
Habsawce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 10,840
vCash: 50
Once Chara retires or slows down (soon I would imagine) the Bruins are going to be utter crap again for a while. Just think about how they play when he's not in the line up, pretty damn average.

The Kessel trade could have helped them a lot more and they got unlucky with Seguin turning into a headcase (although I think hanging out with Marchand didn't help) and not being the stud he should be. I still think Dougie will be a stud, just not enough to replace Chara obviously.

Habsawce is online now  
Old
09-06-2013, 02:03 PM
  #85
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 17,791
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Interesting jibe there with the "as usual".

I think with Seguin and that cap space they used to sign Horton their team developed a style and depth that surpassed their capabilities with Kessel. Kessel wasn't really a gamebreaker at the time of his trade (and I would argue he isn't a bonafide elite player now either) but yes - he was the most talented player involved. However with Horton and Seguin the Bruins got much depth and that's how they beat every team.

Now if Seguin got them through that series against Tampa Bay, which by all media accounts he was given credit for, and Horton had an overall "decent" playoffs with 3 gwg and the Leafs gave them both Seguin and the cap-space to sign Horton - I'm positing that none of that would've happened had it not been for the trade.

Yes it's speculative but that's exactly how I feel about the trade. The Bruins got talented young players and scoring depth, the Leafs got a winger who hasn't done much of anything for them. They lost the trade, Boston won the cup.
Interesting argument. And there's no doubt that Horton was super clutch for them. He wasn't in the finals but they arguably don't even get there without him.

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
09-06-2013, 02:05 PM
  #86
WhiskeySeven
Give her the Defence
 
WhiskeySeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,546
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Once Chara retires or slows down (soon I would imagine) the Bruins are going to be utter crap again for a while. Just think about how they play when he's not in the line up, pretty damn average.

The Kessel trade could have helped them a lot more and they got unlucky with Seguin turning into a headcase (although I think hanging out with Marchand didn't help) and not being the stud he should be. I still think Dougie will be a stud, just not enough to replace Chara obviously.
They still have Rask and if we or (god forbid) the Leafs had Dougie Hamilton no one would've heard the end of it. They're all good players. I think Seguin's bad rap got much overblown too but a team in the Bruins' position has the flexibility to move a young player quite easily.

Seguin had a great year two years ago, didn't he lead the Bruins in a lot of categories? 65 points as a sophomore, no? He's still only 21 and he's massively experienced. If the Leafs had him, warts and all, he'd have a deafening amount of hype.

Same will go for Hamilton, I'm almost certain of it.

I cannot concieve of a world where a divisional rival wins a stanley cup, gets a handful of immensely talented youngsters and scoring depth and somehow loses the trade. Just the immediate winning of the Cup should do it. The Leafs haven't won in 40 years, the Habs in 20 - Boston won the Cup almost immediately after trading Kessel.

Trades don't operate in vacuums, in context however: Burke overpaid because he didn't want to offersheet, gave up two VERY HIGH first round picks and gave his immediate divisional rival significant cap flexibility while his own team was in shambles and needed goalie, defense and centre depth. No way did they win that trade.

WhiskeySeven is offline  
Old
09-06-2013, 02:10 PM
  #87
WhiskeySeven
Give her the Defence
 
WhiskeySeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,546
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Interesting argument. And there's no doubt that Horton was super clutch for them. He wasn't in the finals but they arguably don't even get there without him.
But of course I'm obscenely off the mark, as usual.

WhiskeySeven is offline  
Old
09-06-2013, 02:12 PM
  #88
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 28,933
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I wouldn't call it a win for Toronto just yet, but I'll say the trade looks a lot better today than it did when it was made...that's for sure. Kessel has turned into a legit star. Meanwhile the Bruins have already given up on Seguin and Hamilton's first season showed that he at least has a ways to go yet.
The part that was dumb about that deal was...A-it was a team that desperately needed a rebuild and traded away 3 1st or 2nd rounders B-Kessel is a skilled player but a not a guy you build around as your big cog in the wheel C-even after giving up 3 assets for Kessel they still had to give him top dollar, they would have been better off to keep their picks and overpay for Cammalleri or another UFA.

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
09-06-2013, 02:17 PM
  #89
WhiskeySeven
Give her the Defence
 
WhiskeySeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,546
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
The part that was dumb about that deal was...A-it was a team that desperately needed a rebuild and traded away 3 1st or 2nd rounders B-Kessel is a skilled player but a not a guy you build around as your big cog in the wheel C-even after giving up 3 assets for Kessel they still had to give him top dollar, they would have been better off to keep their picks and overpay for Cammalleri or another UFA.
And apt analogy would be that they boughy spoilers and a nitrous system for a Hyundai and the seller invested in a new pair of tires and injection system for his Civic... FOR THE SAME RACE.

WhiskeySeven is offline  
Old
09-06-2013, 03:01 PM
  #90
Dagistitsyn
Registered User
 
Dagistitsyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,048
vCash: 500
Edit: Yeah it's him.

Luongo's twitter account is the best.

Dagistitsyn is online now  
Old
09-06-2013, 03:40 PM
  #91
Team_Spirit
Tinordi-Subban
 
Team_Spirit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 19,376
vCash: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gally94 View Post
3rd kid from the right, higher row....Alex Ovechkin
Thats right! That picture was tweeted by OV himself.


Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 1 h
Former Panther Peter Mueller has signed with Kloten in SUI. BTW, Mueller is not on Twitter so any accounts claiming to be him are fake.

Colorado went BIG


Team_Spirit is offline  
Old
09-06-2013, 03:58 PM
  #92
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,739
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Only if you believe everything said to the media. You're much more gullible than me. If Burke was on a polygraph machine and said that it would go haywire.
Believe what you want... I rarely take the media comments at face value, and none of us know for sure what's in Burkes mind.

Pro sports attract a certain type of personality, even more so to succeed in that arena.

I've seen and dealt with Burke-types a ton, and looking at his body of work, his demeanor when justifying the trade, and the personality pattern he fits, I don't doubt that he sincerely believes the kessel deal was a"good" one to make.

Call it cognitive dissonance, call it stubbornness bordering on insanity, but I'd sooner explain it thst way than proclaim that i know him to be a liar.

FYI assuming others view the world exactly as you do is at the heart of being gullible

Miller Time is online now  
Old
09-06-2013, 04:08 PM
  #93
Habsawce
Registered User
 
Habsawce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 10,840
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
Colorado went BIG

Remember when Montreal had the biggest scoreboard in the league? Yeah, that lasted a whole 15 minutes - first Tampa now Colorado, I guess Jerry Jones will buy the Stars and out do them both next by taking out half the seats and making the entire one side of the rink a scoreboard.

Habsawce is online now  
Old
09-06-2013, 08:57 PM
  #94
Whitesnake
Year of the Snake
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine
Country: Canada
Posts: 43,675
vCash: 500
Not a surprise to me....Kristo doing good in the Rangers tournament so far......Please Christian Thomas....you better shine boy 'cause I will be a pain for this board quite often this year if you don't.

I was fairly reserved as far as this trade even though I was one of Kristo's biggest fan in this board mostly because I also happen to like Thomas.....but I still do not understand that trade. Unless Thomas explodes and become a AHL Cammy this year and has a real shot in the NHL next year....I will not understand that trade.

Whitesnake is offline  
Old
09-06-2013, 10:02 PM
  #95
Habsawce
Registered User
 
Habsawce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 10,840
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Not a surprise to me....Kristo doing good in the Rangers tournament so far......Please Christian Thomas....you better shine boy 'cause I will be a pain for this board quite often this year if you don't.

I was fairly reserved as far as this trade even though I was one of Kristo's biggest fan in this board mostly because I also happen to like Thomas.....but I still do not understand that trade. Unless Thomas explodes and become a AHL Cammy this year and has a real shot in the NHL next year....I will not understand that trade.
Kristo has all the tools to be a fantastic top 6 winger in the NHL and has shown it. It had to be an attitude or character thing because otherwise the trade made zero sense.

Habsawce is online now  
Old
09-06-2013, 10:42 PM
  #96
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,739
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Not a surprise to me....Kristo doing good in the Rangers tournament so far......Please Christian Thomas....you better shine boy 'cause I will be a pain for this board quite often this year if you don't.

I was fairly reserved as far as this trade even though I was one of Kristo's biggest fan in this board mostly because I also happen to like Thomas.....but I still do not understand that trade. Unless Thomas explodes and become a AHL Cammy this year and has a real shot in the NHL next year....I will not understand that trade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Kristo has all the tools to be a fantastic top 6 winger in the NHL and has shown it. It had to be an attitude or character thing because otherwise the trade made zero sense.
For all the focus on the briere move (and to lesser extent, Bouillion & DD extensions), the Kristo trade could turn out to be his worst decision thus far.

Hoping Thomas quickly (or eventually) rewards MB's gamble, but for now, based on what I know of both players (to be fair, it's not enough to pass a decisive judgment) in skeptical that this one will turn out well for us.

Miller Time is online now  
Old
09-07-2013, 12:29 AM
  #97
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 5,851
vCash: 500
Remind me how Kristo lacked character? Did he give alcohol to some 19 year olds?

DAChampion is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:03 AM
  #98
Lars Mon Amour
Mon beau Lars
 
Lars Mon Amour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Saint-Hyacinthe, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,968
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Remind me how Kristo lacked character? Did he give alcohol to some 19 year olds?
Yes. He bought alcohol to 18-19 year olds for the team initiation. Who cares really? I'm sure a lot of people here have done the same thing for their friends when they were teenager.

Lars Mon Amour is online now  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:40 AM
  #99
OneSharpMarble
Registered User
 
OneSharpMarble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,052
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
For all the focus on the briere move (and to lesser extent, Bouillion & DD extensions), the Kristo trade could turn out to be his worst decision thus far.

Hoping Thomas quickly (or eventually) rewards MB's gamble, but for now, based on what I know of both players (to be fair, it's not enough to pass a decisive judgment) in skeptical that this one will turn out well for us.
Which is starting to be quite the achievement. Trying to one up himself with each step?

OneSharpMarble is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:53 AM
  #100
WG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 388
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Interesting jibe there with the "as usual".

I think with Seguin and that cap space they used to sign Horton their team developed a style and depth that surpassed their capabilities with Kessel. Kessel wasn't really a gamebreaker at the time of his trade (and I would argue he isn't a bonafide elite player now either) but yes - he was the most talented player involved. However with Horton and Seguin the Bruins got much depth and that's how they beat every team.
Wasn't just the cap space. Boston had to trade their 1st round pick to acquire Horton. There's no way to know for sure if they'd have done this anyway, but it's certainly a lot easier to trade a 1st rounder (#15) when they already had put a prospect in the bank with the #2 overall. Horton was on a good contract, too (6 yrs at $4M).

I have always considered the Horton acquisition as the most direct benefit linking the Kessel trade to the B's cup run.

WG is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:29 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.