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09-06-2013, 08:38 AM
  #226
mactforcoach
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As a hockey fan I'm glad, his comments to the press are always fun to listen to. It should be entertaining if nothing else watching things develop between Feaster, King & Burke. Feaster has had his own way for some time now to make some real bad trades. Nobody tells King what to do, and Burke? Well he really don't give a crap what anyone thinks so watch for some fireworks down south.

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09-06-2013, 09:51 AM
  #227
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I see the Flames at the same point as the Oilers were in 2006-07 when they finally got smart and moved Ryan Smyth. That was the same signal to the fans that the team was going for a major change. The Iginla era in Calgary is officially over and the Flames are turning the page, just like the Oilers did when they traded Smyth. How Calgary elects to move forward will define whether they are going to end up further ahead than Edmonton or suffer the same fate and go through a horrendously long rebuild. Burke's hiring could be beneficial in making the deals that make the team more competitive in a shorter time frame. Burke definitely has an advantage as the foundation has been laid for the future. He just has to build on that foundation.

There are some interesting comments about the bad shape Calgary is supposedly in. Can't prove it either way but on paper they look like they aren't in bad shape. Supposedly they have no future goaltending. Edmonton hockey fans can certainly tell you Brossoit is a damn good goaltender and a very solid prospect. He isn't even Calgary's best goaltending prospect. They have a kid by the name of Jon Gillies who dominated Hockey East and piled up the individual awards in his freshman year. This kid stoned Canada in the recent Lake Placid summer mini-tournament and should be the starter for the American team at this year's world junior tournament. There were comments coming out of Calgary during their developmental camp that indicated they believed Gillies was their best prospect. High praise considering their prospect depth.

Prospect depth is another area that is being ignored. The Flames have surprisingly good prospect depth all of a sudden. Their picks have stepped up and developed. People may want to rag on Calgary for taking a calculated risk in drafting Mark Jankowski, but he was very good at the summer Team Canada eval camp and was identified as a player, along with Emile Poirier, Canada was missing during the 5-1 loss to the Americans. His skill and size were missing in the mix. When you look at the Flames young center group you have to admit they have interesting potential. Jankowski at 6'3, Monahan at 6'2, Corbin Knight at 6'2 and Reinhart at 6'1 all have good size and skill. That doesn't include Backlund, Horak, Markus Granlund, or Boston College standout, Bill Arnold, another big body with skill. On the wings the Flames have the much talked about Baertschi that everyone is focusing on. Forgotten is Hobey Baker finalist and Boston College star, Johnny Gaureau, and Frozen Four hero for Yale, Kenny Agostino. Both players have top six potential. Then there are recent picks Poirier and Morgan Klimchuk, also top six potential players. The Flames also have some solid grit in Ben Hanowski, Michael Ferland, and Lance Bouwma. They are thin on the blueline but have some excellent young defenders in Pat Sieloff, Tyler Wotherspoon, John Ramage, and Oiler goal scoring hero from yesterday's young star game, Ryan Culkin. None of these guys are top pairing defenders, but are solid defenders who excelled at each level they played at and show great potential. The Flames system has a real interesting mix of quality young players who will be filtering into the ranks over the next two years. That is a huge benefit for Brian Burke and something the Oilers did not have working for them when they started the rebuild when they dealt away Smyth.

I don't see the Flames situation very similar to the Oilers because they have some good depth going into the rebuild. They are headed to a couple of early first round picks, no doubt. This is a freakishly bad hockey team right now and is only going to get worse when they finally move Cammalleri, Stempniak and Stajan this season. But they are not going to be as bad off as the Oilers, where they are working from a scorched earth position. The Oilers are in tough because they are trying to build some depth to support their first overall picks. Time is working against them. The Flames have that depth in development and as they add those top end picks, say Ekblad and McDavid, they will already have good depth to support them. The Flames rebuild is looking more like that of the Blackhawks, where much of their depth was drafted in 2003 and 2004, and then Toews and Kane were drafted in 2005 and 2006. The two star players are going to be drafted by the Flames in 2014 and 2015, but is the foundation laid in the 2011, 2012 and 2013 drafts and moves at the deadlines that catapult the team to the next level. There are no guarantees of anything, but if they Chicago model is accurate the Flames could be pretty damn good in a few years and vault past a lot of teams.

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09-06-2013, 10:01 AM
  #228
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Don't count those chickens before they hatch..

The Oilers thought they had some good up and coming depth on their team too. They don't all turn out.

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09-06-2013, 10:13 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by dem View Post
Don't count those chickens before they hatch..

The Oilers thought they had some good up and coming depth on their team too. They don't all turn out.
Yep, when they took Taylor Hall 1st overall in 2010, Oilers already had Cogliano, Brule, VandeVelde, Hartikainen, Paajarvi, Lander who all looked like quality depth players. Then they added Pitlick, Hamilton and Martindale.

Fast forward 3 years. Cogliano, Brule and Paajarvi are no longer part of the team. Hartikainen may never play a game in NA, Pitlick, Hamilton and Martindale all look like busts, with Lander's potential being limited.

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09-06-2013, 10:13 AM
  #230
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Tanking in order to stack #1 draft picks while letting your roster and organizational depth decay to nothing... is not a rebuild.

It is rot.

If we were 48 games into an 82 game season in the 2013 season, we'd likely have another lottery pick. If we had sustained any more major injuries besides RNH, we'd be at the ocean floor.

Rebuild? Bull. Incompetence.

MacT has to be better than the men who thought he is qualified for the job. No GM experience, yet he has to surround the spoils of ineptitude with actual depth.

And some Oiler fans rag on Burke.

Hmm.
Not sure where your going with this. Just venting?

Burke... It took him 4-5 years and him being fired before the team finally made the playoffs and are widely considered to have overachieved to get there. Not exactly great stuff.

Has Edmonton done better? No. But more ufa will go to Toronto than Edmonton which is the main reason why we are in a rebuild anyways. Don't think there was any intentional tanking involved. If there was I think we would of done much better last year.

You kinda contradict yourself.

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09-06-2013, 02:08 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by dem View Post
Don't count those chickens before they hatch..

The Oilers thought they had some good up and coming depth on their team too. They don't all turn out.
This is true. A lot of Flames fans praise Feaster and Weisbrod for stocking up the cupboards after Sutter left, but in reality we really don't know what the outcome will be. Outside of Baerstchi, no prospect under Feaster's helm has graduated (yet).

Ken King did say how much change he's noticed in the Flames drafting process now that Feaster has taken over. Even Burke himself mentioned he thought Feaster has made good steps to a rebuild, but still, Burke wants to evaluate the drafting process.

Ultimately only time will tell.

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09-06-2013, 02:40 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
I see the Flames at the same point as the Oilers were in 2006-07 when they finally got smart and moved Ryan Smyth. That was the same signal to the fans that the team was going for a major change. The Iginla era in Calgary is officially over and the Flames are turning the page, just like the Oilers did when they traded Smyth. How Calgary elects to move forward will define whether they are going to end up further ahead than Edmonton or suffer the same fate and go through a horrendously long rebuild. Burke's hiring could be beneficial in making the deals that make the team more competitive in a shorter time frame. Burke definitely has an advantage as the foundation has been laid for the future. He just has to build on that foundation.

There are some interesting comments about the bad shape Calgary is supposedly in. Can't prove it either way but on paper they look like they aren't in bad shape. Supposedly they have no future goaltending. Edmonton hockey fans can certainly tell you Brossoit is a damn good goaltender and a very solid prospect. He isn't even Calgary's best goaltending prospect. They have a kid by the name of Jon Gillies who dominated Hockey East and piled up the individual awards in his freshman year. This kid stoned Canada in the recent Lake Placid summer mini-tournament and should be the starter for the American team at this year's world junior tournament. There were comments coming out of Calgary during their developmental camp that indicated they believed Gillies was their best prospect. High praise considering their prospect depth.

Prospect depth is another area that is being ignored. The Flames have surprisingly good prospect depth all of a sudden. Their picks have stepped up and developed. People may want to rag on Calgary for taking a calculated risk in drafting Mark Jankowski, but he was very good at the summer Team Canada eval camp and was identified as a player, along with Emile Poirier, Canada was missing during the 5-1 loss to the Americans. His skill and size were missing in the mix. When you look at the Flames young center group you have to admit they have interesting potential. Jankowski at 6'3, Monahan at 6'2, Corbin Knight at 6'2 and Reinhart at 6'1 all have good size and skill. That doesn't include Backlund, Horak, Markus Granlund, or Boston College standout, Bill Arnold, another big body with skill. On the wings the Flames have the much talked about Baertschi that everyone is focusing on. Forgotten is Hobey Baker finalist and Boston College star, Johnny Gaureau, and Frozen Four hero for Yale, Kenny Agostino. Both players have top six potential. Then there are recent picks Poirier and Morgan Klimchuk, also top six potential players. The Flames also have some solid grit in Ben Hanowski, Michael Ferland, and Lance Bouwma. They are thin on the blueline but have some excellent young defenders in Pat Sieloff, Tyler Wotherspoon, John Ramage, and Oiler goal scoring hero from yesterday's young star game, Ryan Culkin. None of these guys are top pairing defenders, but are solid defenders who excelled at each level they played at and show great potential. The Flames system has a real interesting mix of quality young players who will be filtering into the ranks over the next two years. That is a huge benefit for Brian Burke and something the Oilers did not have working for them when they started the rebuild when they dealt away Smyth.

I don't see the Flames situation very similar to the Oilers because they have some good depth going into the rebuild. They are headed to a couple of early first round picks, no doubt. This is a freakishly bad hockey team right now and is only going to get worse when they finally move Cammalleri, Stempniak and Stajan this season. But they are not going to be as bad off as the Oilers, where they are working from a scorched earth position. The Oilers are in tough because they are trying to build some depth to support their first overall picks. Time is working against them. The Flames have that depth in development and as they add those top end picks, say Ekblad and McDavid, they will already have good depth to support them. The Flames rebuild is looking more like that of the Blackhawks, where much of their depth was drafted in 2003 and 2004, and then Toews and Kane were drafted in 2005 and 2006. The two star players are going to be drafted by the Flames in 2014 and 2015, but is the foundation laid in the 2011, 2012 and 2013 drafts and moves at the deadlines that catapult the team to the next level. There are no guarantees of anything, but if they Chicago model is accurate the Flames could be pretty damn good in a few years and vault past a lot of teams.
Great analysis, but I would think you are a year early on the comparison. We traded Smyth so we wouldn't "lose him for nothing" as a UFA, the Oil had no intention of rebuilding until the next year when Hemsky was injured, all of the old players regressed, and we basically didn't have an NHL caliber team. I believe that is the year you guys are in now.

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09-06-2013, 02:55 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by ManofSteel55 View Post
Great analysis, but I would think you are a year early on the comparison. We traded Smyth so we wouldn't "lose him for nothing" as a UFA, the Oil had no intention of rebuilding until the next year when Hemsky was injured, all of the old players regressed, and we basically didn't have an NHL caliber team. I believe that is the year you guys are in now.
After Smyth left the Oilers through pots of money at Vanek, then Penner. Then chased Heatley. And signed Khabibulin. traded for Erik Cole. Etcetera etcetera. Those were our Feaster years.

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09-06-2013, 03:15 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
I see the Flames at the same point as the Oilers were in 2006-07 when they finally got smart and moved Ryan Smyth. That was the same signal to the fans that the team was going for a major change. The Iginla era in Calgary is officially over and the Flames are turning the page, just like the Oilers did when they traded Smyth. How Calgary elects to move forward will define whether they are going to end up further ahead than Edmonton or suffer the same fate and go through a horrendously long rebuild. Burke's hiring could be beneficial in making the deals that make the team more competitive in a shorter time frame. Burke definitely has an advantage as the foundation has been laid for the future. He just has to build on that foundation.

There are some interesting comments about the bad shape Calgary is supposedly in. Can't prove it either way but on paper they look like they aren't in bad shape. Supposedly they have no future goaltending. Edmonton hockey fans can certainly tell you Brossoit is a damn good goaltender and a very solid prospect. He isn't even Calgary's best goaltending prospect. They have a kid by the name of Jon Gillies who dominated Hockey East and piled up the individual awards in his freshman year. This kid stoned Canada in the recent Lake Placid summer mini-tournament and should be the starter for the American team at this year's world junior tournament. There were comments coming out of Calgary during their developmental camp that indicated they believed Gillies was their best prospect. High praise considering their prospect depth.

Prospect depth is another area that is being ignored. The Flames have surprisingly good prospect depth all of a sudden. Their picks have stepped up and developed. People may want to rag on Calgary for taking a calculated risk in drafting Mark Jankowski, but he was very good at the summer Team Canada eval camp and was identified as a player, along with Emile Poirier, Canada was missing during the 5-1 loss to the Americans. His skill and size were missing in the mix. When you look at the Flames young center group you have to admit they have interesting potential. Jankowski at 6'3, Monahan at 6'2, Corbin Knight at 6'2 and Reinhart at 6'1 all have good size and skill. That doesn't include Backlund, Horak, Markus Granlund, or Boston College standout, Bill Arnold, another big body with skill. On the wings the Flames have the much talked about Baertschi that everyone is focusing on. Forgotten is Hobey Baker finalist and Boston College star, Johnny Gaureau, and Frozen Four hero for Yale, Kenny Agostino. Both players have top six potential. Then there are recent picks Poirier and Morgan Klimchuk, also top six potential players. The Flames also have some solid grit in Ben Hanowski, Michael Ferland, and Lance Bouwma. They are thin on the blueline but have some excellent young defenders in Pat Sieloff, Tyler Wotherspoon, John Ramage, and Oiler goal scoring hero from yesterday's young star game, Ryan Culkin. None of these guys are top pairing defenders, but are solid defenders who excelled at each level they played at and show great potential. The Flames system has a real interesting mix of quality young players who will be filtering into the ranks over the next two years. That is a huge benefit for Brian Burke and something the Oilers did not have working for them when they started the rebuild when they dealt away Smyth.

I don't see the Flames situation very similar to the Oilers because they have some good depth going into the rebuild. They are headed to a couple of early first round picks, no doubt. This is a freakishly bad hockey team right now and is only going to get worse when they finally move Cammalleri, Stempniak and Stajan this season. But they are not going to be as bad off as the Oilers, where they are working from a scorched earth position. The Oilers are in tough because they are trying to build some depth to support their first overall picks. Time is working against them. The Flames have that depth in development and as they add those top end picks, say Ekblad and McDavid, they will already have good depth to support them. The Flames rebuild is looking more like that of the Blackhawks, where much of their depth was drafted in 2003 and 2004, and then Toews and Kane were drafted in 2005 and 2006. The two star players are going to be drafted by the Flames in 2014 and 2015, but is the foundation laid in the 2011, 2012 and 2013 drafts and moves at the deadlines that catapult the team to the next level. There are no guarantees of anything, but if they Chicago model is accurate the Flames could be pretty damn good in a few years and vault past a lot of teams.
While I can appreciate the sentiments, its really two different rebuilds.

The Oilers, IIRC, started the following season with Hall, Paajaarvi, Eberle, Omark, Brule, and a few other rookies. The Oilers immediately allowed rookies to make their mark on the team.

The Flames, however, are going into next season with Cammy, Stajan, Stempniak, Hudler, Galliardi, Jones, Jackman, Glencross, Bouma, and Backlund, leaving only 2 forward spots for rookies, most likely being Knight and Baertschi. And Baertchi is already fairly NHL experienced.

Its hard to compare the two IMO.

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09-06-2013, 03:32 PM
  #235
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Sadly, I agree that the Flames seem to have some solid pieces already in place. Something about their scouting/development seems to add players that can play hockey. Even if they're not great, they always have had a few guys who can do something out there and not look out of place. Now with their higher draft picks lately, they have some quality players waiting in the wings and on the roster already in some cases.

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09-06-2013, 03:37 PM
  #236
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Do they have any stud defensemen or goalies not already on the team?

Their forward corps look very weak this year especially with Cammilleri wanting out.

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09-06-2013, 03:46 PM
  #237
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Burke gets things done. HE has been away from the canucks for 8 years or so and his influence on the team is still felt. Maple leafs are a better team now then when he took over and he won a cup with the ducks. Lowe's rings are as a player and not a manager

I would take Burke over Mact and Lowe in a heartbeat
there are two options:
Murray built the Ducks that got to the cup and Burke built the playoff leafs.
Or
Burke added pronger to the ducks and won a cup and the leafs made the playoffs under the hockey genius Nonis after burke left.

i am smart enough to know option 1 is the truth.
but you cannot credit the ducks and the leafs together.
ducks slow build was murray and leafs slow build was Burke.

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09-06-2013, 04:27 PM
  #238
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After Smyth left the Oilers through pots of money at Vanek, then Penner. Then chased Heatley. And signed Khabibulin. traded for Erik Cole. Etcetera etcetera. Those were our Feaster years.
I'm still amazed that we were able to go from Lupul to Pitkanen to Cole to O'Sullivan to nothing. Totally wasted the center piece from the Pronger deal, thank goodness for Eberle.

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09-06-2013, 04:32 PM
  #239
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Do they have any stud defensemen or goalies not already on the team?
As previously mentioned, the Flames have a great young goaltending prospect in Gillies and then a good prospect in Brossoit. They also have Joni Ortio coming back from Finland, so that is another body in the mix. I'm not sold on him, but he was supposedly very good last year.

On the blue line you have past Team USA captain, and Wisconsin Badger captain, John Ramage. Tyler Wotherspoon was excellent for Team Canada in last year's world junior tournament. Patrick Sieloff is a shoe-in for this year's American entry at the junior tournament. All three of these kids have the ability to make the NHL this season and have been told as such. Two guys that stood out from last night's game were Culkin and Kanzig. Both are young but stood out head-to-head with the Oilers blue line prospects. Of course their job was much easier as the play was not in their end that much, so the next games will tell if this was an adoration or if they were that good. Again, not great depth, but considering where the team was a couple years ago this is a huge improvement. These blue liners have an interesting mix of skill and grit that give them a good chance of finding their way on the roster in some capacity.

Quote:
Their forward corps look very weak this year especially with Cammilleri wanting out.
Is that a bad thing for a team in a rebuild? I hope Cammalleri lights it up, along with Stempniak and Stajan, so their value is maximized at the deadline. Get as many picks as they can and stock up some more. It is going to be a pitiful couple of years for the Flames and I hope they are rewarded with a couple of high end prospects in the next couple of drafts.

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09-06-2013, 04:43 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
As previously mentioned, the Flames have a great young goaltending prospect in Gillies and then a good prospect in Brossoit. They also have Joni Ortio coming back from Finland, so that is another body in the mix. I'm not sold on him, but he was supposedly very good last year.

On the blue line you have past Team USA captain, and Wisconsin Badger captain, John Ramage. Tyler Wotherspoon was excellent for Team Canada in last year's world junior tournament. Patrick Sieloff is a shoe-in for this year's American entry at the junior tournament. All three of these kids have the ability to make the NHL this season and have been told as such. Two guys that stood out from last night's game were Culkin and Kanzig. Both are young but stood out head-to-head with the Oilers blue line prospects. Of course their job was much easier as the play was not in their end that much, so the next games will tell if this was an adoration or if they were that good. Again, not great depth, but considering where the team was a couple years ago this is a huge improvement. These blue liners have an interesting mix of skill and grit that give them a good chance of finding their way on the roster in some capacity.
Just to illustrate how quickly this can go wrong..
The Oilers had USA team captain Taylor Chorney.. SWE captain Anton Lander. Curtis Hamilton was looking good on Team Canada. Olivier Roy made Canada. I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of other standouts as well...

Until you can show it as a PRO.. it means nothing.

It's a long road to being an NHL player for most of these guys. They aren't all making an impact in a year or 2.

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09-06-2013, 04:44 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
there are two options:
Murray built the Ducks that got to the cup and Burke built the playoff leafs.
Or
Burke added pronger to the ducks and won a cup and the leafs made the playoffs under the hockey genius Nonis after burke left.

i am smart enough to know option 1 is the truth.
but you cannot credit the ducks and the leafs together.
ducks slow build was murray and leafs slow build was Burke.
It's not so cut and dried. In addition to Pronger, Burke added Beuchamin, Travis Moen, Todd Marchant, and J.S. Giguere, all of whom played significant roles in the Ducks' Cup win. Murray laid the ground work, but Burke deserves more credit for bringing in the pieces that put them over the top.

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09-06-2013, 04:45 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
there are two options:
Murray built the Ducks that got to the cup and Burke built the playoff leafs.
Or
Burke added pronger to the ducks and won a cup and the leafs made the playoffs under the hockey genius Nonis after burke left.

i am smart enough to know option 1 is the truth.
but you cannot credit the ducks and the leafs together.
ducks slow build was murray and leafs slow build was Burke.
Bryan Murray gets way too much credit around here for the 07 cup. Add Niedermayer, Pronger, Selanne to any pre-existing core and they would be a contender. Murray put some nice pieces in place but he tried to trade Perry for Mike Comrie too.

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09-06-2013, 04:50 PM
  #243
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CGYPUKSUX is under the same delusion we, Oilers fans, were under three years ago.

This not meant to be an insult, rather the truth. His post is the same we read thousands of times at the start of our rebuild.

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09-06-2013, 06:02 PM
  #244
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Just to illustrate how quickly this can go wrong..
The Oilers had USA team captain Taylor Chorney.. SWE captain Anton Lander. Curtis Hamilton was looking good on Team Canada. Olivier Roy made Canada. I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of other standouts as well...

Until you can show it as a PRO.. it means nothing.

It's a long road to being an NHL player for most of these guys
. They aren't all making an impact in a year or 2.
Yup.



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09-06-2013, 07:03 PM
  #245
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Are you guys writing off Lander? I'm asking legitimately not knowing.

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09-06-2013, 07:27 PM
  #246
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Yup.


145 pts in 57 games his final year in junior. A sick set of mitts. Unfortunately an ego and sense of entitlement that overshadowed the skill set.

In my opinion he was the same calibre of prospect as Gaudreau is today, in that there is an immense level of talent, but still major hurdles to overcome. Gaudreau doesn't have any of the character issues Schremp had, but damn is that kid small. I realize he is elusive and a very cerebral player, but even if he gets to 5'9 and 170 (which would mean another 15-20 lbs), he'd still be the smallest player in the league. Basically a boom or bust prospect, he will either be an impact offensive player here or in Europe, not the type that salvages an NHL career by becoming a bottom 6er.

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09-06-2013, 10:05 PM
  #247
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Burke is colorful. With Vancouver and Edmonton in the same division, there will be a ton of drama with Calgary. Considering that it was going to be a pretty craptastic couple of years for Calgary, this at least adds a bit more entertainment.

I love watching Burke work the media. Good times.

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09-06-2013, 11:18 PM
  #248
Philly85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
Are you guys writing off Lander? I'm asking legitimately not knowing.
not for a second. I personally think there's a ton there to work with, the question is can he put it all together and/or when will it all happen for him. He's a good young 2way centre with a bit of untapped skill. They are not writing him off in the slightest IMO.

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09-06-2013, 11:24 PM
  #249
okgooil
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I hate Burke with a passion. The most arrogant sack of Sh#t in the NHL.

I also hate the flames.


So I guess in a weird way nothing has changed.

I just hope Calgary doesn't get Rinhart this year or McDavid next. They are going to be a bad team and are going to get some good players, I just hope they don't get the best.

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09-08-2013, 09:45 AM
  #250
Gutchecktime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
there are two options:
Murray built the Ducks that got to the cup and Burke built the playoff leafs.
Or
Burke added pronger to the ducks and won a cup and the leafs made the playoffs under the hockey genius Nonis after burke left.

i am smart enough to know option 1 is the truth.
but you cannot credit the ducks and the leafs together.
ducks slow build was murray and leafs slow build was Burke.
... was Burke not responsible for that entire defense corps?

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