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Does anyone feel like the Oilers farm system needs to be addressed

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Old
09-07-2013, 01:49 AM
  #26
Usual_Suspect
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Sedins0Cups View Post
I think they have to be over 20 years old or have 4 years of junior under their belts before they can go pro in the AHL. Both Khaira and Marco Roy will have to play junior this year. Khaira already committed to Everett, Roy will go back to the Q if he doesn't make the team, which is obviously a long shot. Although, he does look like an impressive pick right now.
This applies to players drafted out of the chl. Khaira was drafted out of the bchl (not part of the chl). He will go to Everett if he doesn't make OKC.

Directly from Khaira:
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...938/story.html

Quote:
But Khaira, 19, impressed the Oilers so much he was given a entry-level contract. He is now determined to make the Oklahoma City Barons’ roster in the American Hockey League, although it’s more likely he’ll spend the season in junior with the Everett Silvertips of the Western Hockey League.

“If that’s what has to happen, I wouldn’t be upset, but the goal is to play at a higher level, so we’ll see,” he said. “But it was a really tough decision. I had a great time in college last year. It was one of my best years. At the same time, this was a great opportunity. I wanted to sign and start my professional career.


Last edited by Usual_Suspect: 09-07-2013 at 02:08 AM.
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Old
09-07-2013, 02:07 AM
  #27
2Sedins0Cups
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Usual_Suspect View Post
This applies to players drafted out of the chl. Khaira was drafted out of the bchl (not part of the chl). He will go to Everett if he doesn't make OKC.

Directly from Khaira:
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...938/story.html
Cool, good to know. Wonder what would be better for his development? If he can handle 2nd or 3rd line minutes in the A, or be a top gun on junior. He's got the physical stature to handle the A it looks like, whether or not his game is polished enough may be another question.

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09-07-2013, 02:08 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Usual_Suspect View Post
You missed a big one - Petry 156gp. I'd say he's pretty good.

Plus Colin Mcdonald, Lander, and Omark are all going to hit 80 this year.

Everyone's favorite team to hold up as drafting successfully, Detroit, have 7 players that meet your criteria. The exact same as Edmonton does.

Teams that meet your criteria with 7 or less:
Detroit has 7
Vancouver has 4
Dallas has 7
Philly has 5
Phoenix has 5
Ottawa has 5
Carolina has 4
Washington has 4
Toronto has 7
Anaheim has 7
Florida has 3
Tampa has 7
Calgary has 6
NYI has 7
Atlanta/Wpg has 2
LA has 7
Minnesota has 6
NJ has 6

Your criteria pretty much proves the opposite of your point.
Great post. Thanks for looking into that.

People always overrate how likely non-1st round picks are to become regular NHLers.

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09-07-2013, 02:36 AM
  #29
Spawn
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I'm more concerned about the drafting than the farm system. The defense looks promising I suppose, but sure would be good to find some forwards who out performed their draft position. Eberle was a great pick. But outside the first round... big fat meh.

Moroz
Musil
Pitlick

Those are essentially 3 late first rounders. Right now we are looking at a best case scenario of maybe a bottom pairing d-man/4th liner out of the group. You've got to hit on one of those. Just gross.

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Old
09-07-2013, 02:51 AM
  #30
SK13
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Good farm systems all have a series of good or great AHL players in significant roles, because players grow better in a winning environment.

It was addressed, correctly, in 2010.

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09-07-2013, 02:56 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
I'm more concerned about the drafting than the farm system. The defense looks promising I suppose, but sure would be good to find some forwards who out performed their draft position. Eberle was a great pick. But outside the first round... big fat meh.

Moroz
Musil
Pitlick

Those are essentially 3 late first rounders. Right now we are looking at a best case scenario of maybe a bottom pairing d-man/4th liner out of the group. You've got to hit on one of those. Just gross.
2002: Stoll, Harding
2003: Eriksson
2004: Bolland
2005: Neal, Vlassic
2006: McGinn
2007: Nobody

6 years, 60 players from the 30-40 range in that time period and there are 9 NHL players. Two top-six forwards and one top-four defenseman in the group. One of them was a re-draft.

Failure rate of that portion of the draft seems to be about 85%, and the rate of getting an impact player in that sample is less than 5%. Basically, those "essentially late round picks" are vastly overrated.

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Old
09-07-2013, 03:26 AM
  #32
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We need to improve all aspects of the organization. I want championships in the WHL, AHL and most importantly the NHL. The way you do that is to be better at everything! Until we are known as the best team organization in pro sports, we have work to do. The good news is we have a owner that wants that for the first time in team history. It simply has not been the case before Katz took over. This is not something that gets accomplished over night or in 5 years. You need a good decade of solid growth in all areas and then enjoy sustained success for decades after. This is the plan and there actions thus far has proven that. They are not done!

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Old
09-07-2013, 09:06 AM
  #33
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This theme that "THE BARONS NEED TO DO MORE TO DEVELOP YOUNG TALENT" keeps coming up on here and it is really off-base.

First, as has been noted, the highly drafted prospects that have come to OKC have been pretty awful on average. Off the top of my head, Hamilton, Pitlick, Plante, Teubert, Chorney, Belle, and my personal favorite, Abney, have all been given pretty big minutes (well, not Abney, but he's just awful. 3rd round pick lol) and simply haven't played well enough at the AHL level. This is on them and the people who picked them, not on Nelson or the Barons.

Second, the Barons HAVE been playing a ton of good young players, and many of them have developed extremely well. Hartikainen is the best example; Marincin, Petry, Arcobello, Lander, Rajala, Cornet, Fedun, MPS, Davidson, etc, have all gotten big minutes in OKC and improved significantly as players as a result. Granted, most of these guys were not marquee draft picks, but if a 5th rounder is a better hockey player than a 2nd rounder, well, them's the breaks. It also doesn't really help that the Oilers do things like let Harti and Rajala walk, but you can't argue that the Barons haven't been giving big minutes and big responsibilities to quality young players. Hell, Rajala and Arcobello were THE GUYS in the playoff run last year.

It seems like some people here actually WANT the Barons to sport a Hamilton/Pitlick/Moroz first line and then a Musil/Gernat first pairing and Bunz in net and then lose 60 games because apparently getting ice time handed to you because of your draft position instead of earning it (and then getting pummeled as a result) is how you "develop" players. Ha.

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Old
09-07-2013, 10:04 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gone View Post
No, we need an amateur scouting staff that can actually judge talent beyond picks 1-2-3; and we need a professional scouting staff .... well, même chose. For xxxx sakes, we haven't had a decent xxxxxxxx scout in 10 years. In Stu we booze.
Fire Stu

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Old
09-07-2013, 10:36 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bozwell View Post
in the last ten years how many none first rounders drafted by the oilers players over 80 games in their career?

Peckham 160 games drafted 2006
Reddoxx 100 games drafted in 2004

2003 should have been a gold mind
JFJ 166
Stortini 257
Brodziuk 467
troy brodie 107 games played

so the oilers have produced only 6 players in ten years who were not drafted in the first round and only Brodziuk is any good
He may not be a number one defenceman on any other team but Jeff Petry is a pretty big miss on your part.

I see it was pointed out by someone else. In any event the question is pretty flawed in itself. It generally takes later round picks several years to develop. I would think on average somewhere around 4 or 5 years to get a sniff of the nhl. Then a couple more years to amass the 80 games required. It's not a surprise that the first of the seven on your list was drafted in 06. How about start in that vicinity and go back ten years.


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Old
09-07-2013, 11:35 AM
  #36
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Good post Bewbies.

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09-08-2013, 10:26 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Usual_Suspect View Post
You missed a big one - Petry 156gp. I'd say he's pretty good.

Plus Colin Mcdonald, Lander, and Omark are all going to hit 80 this year.

Everyone's favorite team to hold up as drafting successfully, Detroit, have 7 players that meet your criteria. The exact same as Edmonton does.

Teams that meet your criteria with 7 or less:
Detroit has 7
Vancouver has 4
Dallas has 7
Philly has 5
Phoenix has 5
Ottawa has 5
Carolina has 4
Washington has 4
Toronto has 7
Anaheim has 7
Florida has 3
Tampa has 7
Calgary has 6
NYI has 7
Atlanta/Wpg has 2
LA has 7
Minnesota has 6
NJ has 6

Your criteria pretty much proves the opposite of your point.
Of course if you look at the quality of players there can be a pretty big difference. The only regulars that Edmonton produced are Brodizak and Petry.

All of Detroits 7 are NHL regulars and guys like Howard, Franzen, and Debatably Helm are impact players. Guys like Reddox, JFJ, and Stortini certainly wouldn't have played more then a handful of games in Detroit.

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09-08-2013, 10:32 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Usual_Suspect View Post
You missed a big one - Petry 156gp. I'd say he's pretty good.

Plus Colin Mcdonald, Lander, and Omark are all going to hit 80 this year.

Everyone's favorite team to hold up as drafting successfully, Detroit, have 7 players that meet your criteria. The exact same as Edmonton does.

Teams that meet your criteria with 7 or less:
Detroit has 7
Vancouver has 4
Dallas has 7
Philly has 5
Phoenix has 5
Ottawa has 5
Carolina has 4
Washington has 4
Toronto has 7
Anaheim has 7
Florida has 3
Tampa has 7
Calgary has 6
NYI has 7
Atlanta/Wpg has 2
LA has 7
Minnesota has 6
NJ has 6

Your criteria pretty much proves the opposite of your point.
Of course if you look at the quality of players there can be a pretty big difference. The only regulars that Edmonton produced are Brodizak and Petry.

All of Detroits 7 are NHL regulars and guys like Howard, Franzen, and Debatably Helm are impact players. Guys like Reddox, JFJ, and Stortini certainly wouldn't have played more then a handful of games in Detroit.

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Old
09-08-2013, 10:53 PM
  #39
Spawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
2002: Stoll, Harding
2003: Eriksson
2004: Bolland
2005: Neal, Vlassic
2006: McGinn
2007: Nobody

6 years, 60 players from the 30-40 range in that time period and there are 9 NHL players. Two top-six forwards and one top-four defenseman in the group. One of them was a re-draft.

Failure rate of that portion of the draft seems to be about 85%, and the rate of getting an impact player in that sample is less than 5%. Basically, those "essentially late round picks" are vastly overrated.
If a team is going to build through the draft like the Oilers have had to, they need to have a better than average success rate on occasion. People keep pointing out the odds and everything. If the Oilers are going to have any hope at getting better they need to beat those odds. So far doesn't look like it.

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Old
09-09-2013, 07:08 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
If a team is going to build through the draft like the Oilers have had to, they need to have a better than average success rate on occasion. People keep pointing out the odds and everything. If the Oilers are going to have any hope at getting better they need to beat those odds. So far doesn't look like it.
Actually if you are going to build through the draft you need to be successful with your first round picks first and foremost. That is where the vast majority of your home-grown future comes from. Everything else is really gravy.

I'd say that the biggest plus for the current scouting crew is that they have been pretty much dead on in this regard. Of course this will be dismissed as being easy but my memory tells me that the Hall/Seguin, RNH/Larsson and Yakupov/Murray debates on this board suggest that maybe it was not as obvious as we make it out to be. Throw in Eberle, Klefbom and PRV and it is hard not to argue that the key decisions have been right.

Just to a bit to this. In the 2008 draft the Oilers picked Eberle at 22. The 2st pick was Anton Gustafsson (Wash). The 23rd pick was Tyler Cuma (Minn). The only players from that drfat with equal or greater value than Eberle would be Stamkos (1), Doughty (2) Pietrangelo (4), Karlsson (15) and if you want to be generous Bogosian (3).

As to the development part, I have no problem with how things have been done on the farm. Generally they have played the players who have earned it. I think the time in the AHL helped Paajarvi a lot. Lander has had a number of different roles as his game progressed. Marincin had a key role last year. Pitlick for example has been given a number of opportunities. At times he has looked very good. But when he does not do what he needs to to earn his ice time he gets less.


Last edited by Fourier: 09-09-2013 at 07:18 AM.
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09-09-2013, 07:54 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
Actually if you are going to build through the draft you need to be successful with your first round picks first and foremost. That is where the vast majority of your home-grown future comes from. Everything else is really gravy.

I'd say that the biggest plus for the current scouting crew is that they have been pretty much dead on in this regard. Of course this will be dismissed as being easy but my memory tells me that the Hall/Seguin, RNH/Larsson and Yakupov/Murray debates on this board suggest that maybe it was not as obvious as we make it out to be. Throw in Eberle, Klefbom and PRV and it is hard not to argue that the key decisions have been right.

Just to a bit to this. In the 2008 draft the Oilers picked Eberle at 22. The 2st pick was Anton Gustafsson (Wash). The 23rd pick was Tyler Cuma (Minn). The only players from that drfat with equal or greater value than Eberle would be Stamkos (1), Doughty (2) Pietrangelo (4), Karlsson (15) and if you want to be generous Bogosian (3).

As to the development part, I have no problem with how things have been done on the farm. Generally they have played the players who have earned it. I think the time in the AHL helped Paajarvi a lot. Lander has had a number of different roles as his game progressed. Marincin had a key role last year. Pitlick for example has been given a number of opportunities. At times he has looked very good. But when he does not do what he needs to to earn his ice time he gets less.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. Eberle is the insignificant mustard's Hemsky.

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09-09-2013, 08:41 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. Eberle is the insignificant mustard's Hemsky.
Not to turn this into a draft thread but what you have described applies to pretty much every team out there. Reality is, after about the first 15 picks it starts to become a crap shoot very quickly.

Klefbom also looks like a pretty solid pick by the way.

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