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Old
11-16-2006, 02:47 PM
  #1
Le Maroons
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No. 18 on Nov. 18

Savard's jersey number will be retired on Saturday. Dryden's will also be retired (Jan. 29).

1 Jacques Plante
2 Doug Harvey
4 Jean Beliveau
5 Bernard Geoffrion
7 Howie Morenz
9 Maurice Richard
10 Guy Lafleur
12 Dickie Moore - Yvon Cournoyer
16 Henri Richard
18 Serge Savard
29 Ken Dryden
99 Wayne Gretzky!

Who else's number will or should be retired in your opinion?

11 Saku Koivu (uh oh...)?
19 Larry Robinson?
21 Guy Carbonneau?
23 Bob Gainey?
33 Patrick Roy?

Just to get the jokes out of the way:

71 Mike Ribeiro
26 Pierre Dagenais
60 Jose Theodore


Last edited by Le Maroons: 11-16-2006 at 02:49 PM. Reason: added date
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Old
11-16-2006, 02:52 PM
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Larry Robinson.

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Old
11-16-2006, 02:54 PM
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Larry Robinson should come after Dryden followed by Gainey, after that some time should pass before anyone is even considered.

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11-16-2006, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
Larry Robinson should come after Dryden followed by Gainey, after that some time should pass before anyone is even considered.
I'd still consider Carbo and Roy after Big Bird, Dryden and Gainey.

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11-16-2006, 03:13 PM
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I think Robinson should come next, then Gainey... And eventually Roy ... I don't think I'd retire Carbo's jersey though ...

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11-16-2006, 03:23 PM
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Robinson, Gainey, Roy.

Koivu, if he leads the team to a cup win. If he can win a cup, he will have done so much for this team and have gone through so much, they really should retire his number.

He's a special case.

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Old
11-16-2006, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Robinson, Gainey, Roy.

Koivu, if he leads the team to a cup win. If he can win a cup, he will have done so much for this team and have gone through so much, they really should retire his number.

He's a special case.
The problem Koivu will have is that even if he wins the cup, he's likley not going to be a HOF candidate. I think Koivu's an exceptional leader, but I don't see Montreal retiring a non-HOF number. It also seems to me that Montreal's going to have to institute a similar policy to Toronto, where the numbers aren't completely retired; players are still allowed to wear them. Montreal's gonna end up with every number from 1-20 retired.

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Old
11-16-2006, 03:34 PM
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Imo we should honor the jerseys...not retire them (Like Toronto Does). If not we'll eventually run out of numbers .

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11-16-2006, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by IcE ColD View Post
I'd still consider Carbo and Roy after Big Bird, Dryden and Gainey.
I'd consider Roy in about 15 years. In terms of Carbonneau, as much as I like him, he is not retired number calibre.

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11-16-2006, 03:48 PM
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The problem Koivu will have is that even if he wins the cup, he's likley not going to be a HOF candidate. I think Koivu's an exceptional leader, but I don't see Montreal retiring a non-HOF number. It also seems to me that Montreal's going to have to institute a similar policy to Toronto, where the numbers aren't completely retired; players are still allowed to wear them. Montreal's gonna end up with every number from 1-20 retired.

He doesn't need to be HOF to get his number retired...He's a special case, we can all admit that.

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Old
11-16-2006, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
I'd consider Roy in about 15 years. In terms of Carbonneau, as much as I like him, he is not retired number calibre.
He won three Selke trophies, and is a fringe HOF candidate. He played for the Habs for ten seasons, won two cups. He's definitely qualified, but I think it hinges on him making the Hall of Fame.

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11-16-2006, 03:53 PM
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He won three Selke trophies, and is a fringe HOF candidate. He played for the Habs for ten seasons, won two cups. He's definitely qualified, but I think it hinges on him making the Hall of Fame.
If Carbonneau played anywhere else he'd be a slam dunk to have his number honoured/retired, but not in Montréal. IMO he's a very long shot to have his number retired or gain entry into the Hall (which ironically enough is the easier of the two accomplishments, at least IMO)

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11-16-2006, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
If Carbonneau played anywhere else he'd be a slam dunk to have his number honoured/retired, but not in Montréal. IMO he's a very long shot to have his number retired or gain entry into the Hall (which ironically enough is the easier of the two accomplishments, at least IMO)
What if he coached them to a Cup? Do you figure he'd get the retiring then?

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11-16-2006, 05:24 PM
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Robinson, Gainey & Roy

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Old
11-16-2006, 05:30 PM
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im going to be at the game!!!

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Old
11-16-2006, 05:45 PM
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Serge is a great choice and totally deserving.The man is the best defensive D man I have ever watched, and no one has made it look so effortless.He was a fantastic passer from both sides, was agile and mobile, and could also rag the puck with ease.He could also hit.

The next guy up is Robisnon, and that is no suprise, but if there's one guy who deserves it after that, it's Jacques Lemaire.He was an exceptional player, who had the skill set to become a fantastic two way C man, and he was the model of playoff consistency.Many laud Messier for his playoff longevity, but for productivity, there are few who have ever stepped up their game like Coco Lemaire.With the exception of the 1976 Cup win, he had to be in the top 3 Hab playoff players throughout 1968-1979 Cup wins.He should have won the Conn Smythe in 1979, and I wonder if Bob Gainey would disagree.

I think it would be an injustice if Gainey had his retired before Lemaire.Jacques was much more valueable to the team, and to the career of Guy Lafleur, and how many Cups would the team won without his leadership, scoring and total hockey sense?

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Old
11-16-2006, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Robinson, Gainey, Roy.

Koivu, if he leads the team to a cup win. If he can win a cup, he will have done so much for this team and have gone through so much, they really should retire his number.

He's a special case.
1 Jacques Plante
2 Doug Harvey
4 Jean Beliveau
5 Bernard Geoffrion
7 Howie Morenz
9 Maurice Richard
10 Guy Lafleur
12 Dickie Moore - Yvon Cournoyer
16 Henri Richard
18 Serge Savard
29 Ken Dryden

All those players were leading the league , were the best players of their generation , and played important role for the Stanley cup runs .

Their jersey are retired because the were great hockey players . Not because they fight a desease . Koivu could have a special picture for his fight , in a hall , but why would he has his jersey with the fames ?

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Old
11-16-2006, 06:24 PM
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Bob Gainey. Greatest defensive forward of all time; man needs some respect.

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Old
11-17-2006, 12:08 AM
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im going to be at the game!!!
Hey, me too!

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11-17-2006, 12:17 AM
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I dont think we should resort to "honors". Retirements are very special, I don't want jerseys hanging up there with Richard's and Morenz's and Beliveau's just because one generation really appreciated them.

I mean, Richard and Beliveau and Lafleur are still outstanding in the eyes of kids today. Will Carbo and Koivu be like that years down the road?

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Old
11-17-2006, 02:16 AM
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IMO Robinson, Gainey and then Roy and in a few years after he leads us to a cup Carbo

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11-17-2006, 06:47 AM
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Robinson and Roy are locks. I suspect Gainey will, maybe just based on some comments I'd heard that this was in the works already. Carbo won't.


On the history board, we seem to play the what if game a lot. Would Lemieux have passed #99 if he was healthier, if Orr's knees had held up longer, if Bure had better knees etc.

Serge Savard is a great what if player. He was hof'er, the stabilizing player on what was probably the best defense ever iced, but could have been more.

Most know about his 2 broken legs and his comeback. His icetime in the 72 summit series increased as the team started winning, it wasn't a coincidence.

When ranking the all time great D men, Orr is usually on his own plateau. Then you see Harvey and Shore and the other greats are usually grouped just under that. Bourque,Potvin,Kelly,Robinson and a few others. I believe Savard,before colliding with that goalpost was headed for a career just under Orr's status. He could move with the puck, he wanted it on his stick, he could control he game and he was just learning. There were no limits on his game.

During the lockout year I watched a lot of classic games, and I realized how underrated Savard's game was. He didn't make Larry Robinson, but he sure made his life easier. He understood the game as well as anyone I've seen play.

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Old
11-17-2006, 07:14 AM
  #23
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I know the rest of society doesn't really look at it that way, but to me, DUI (especially repeated as a mature individual in modern society) would keep Savard's number out of my rafters, no matter what he did on the ice, even if he wore #4 or #99 or #66. To me, he's a criminal on the order of an attempted murderer.

(And while times, awareness and maturity arguments might be made, I'd certainly be ready to apply the same standards to Lafleur and any others too... his era was pretty much borderline for that. Prior eras, well, I think different societal conditions could allow them off the hook.)

Ok, I know I know that will come off as harsh and perhaps needlessly incendiary in the spotlight of adoration we want to place on our revered athletes, but nevertheless, it is how I feel. I'll delete the post if anybody is too offended.

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Old
11-17-2006, 07:23 AM
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waffledave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #ZAMBONI# View Post
1 Jacques Plante
2 Doug Harvey
4 Jean Beliveau
5 Bernard Geoffrion
7 Howie Morenz
9 Maurice Richard
10 Guy Lafleur
12 Dickie Moore - Yvon Cournoyer
16 Henri Richard
18 Serge Savard
29 Ken Dryden

All those players were leading the league , were the best players of their generation , and played important role for the Stanley cup runs .

Their jersey are retired because the were great hockey players . Not because they fight a desease . Koivu could have a special picture for his fight , in a hall , but why would he has his jersey with the fames ?
Because winning a cup is much harder today than it was back then. This is not to discredit what the old stars did, not at all...But today, with the parity and the way the game has changed, winning a cup is much harder. Especially after the way this team was completely destroyed.

If Koivu can lead this team to a cup, after everything he's done...After everything he's been through (and it's not just the cancer), after everything he's given for this team...He deserves to be up there with the greats. You're kidding yourself if you don't think Richard is looking down from heaven and thinking how proud and how much respect he has for Koivu. He epitomizes everything the CH stands for. If you can't see that past your bias, then I'm sorry friend, you are lost.

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Old
11-17-2006, 07:41 AM
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mcphee
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I know the rest of society doesn't really look at it that way, but to me, DUI (especially repeated as a mature individual in modern society) would keep Savard's number out of my rafters, no matter what he did on the ice, even if he wore #4 or #99 or #66. To me, he's a criminal on the order of an attempted murderer.

(And while times, awareness and maturity arguments might be made, I'd certainly be ready to apply the same standards to Lafleur and any others too... his era was pretty much borderline for that. Prior eras, well, I think different societal conditions could allow them off the hook.)

Ok, I know I know that will come off as harsh and perhaps needlessly incendiary in the spotlight of adoration we want to place on our revered athletes, but nevertheless, it is how I feel. I'll delete the post if anybody is too offended.
I guess we've talked about this before and I'm not going to make excuses for stupid, dangerous behaviour. I don't know, I've done a lot of stupid things myself, though many years ago, and I'm glad my whole life hasn't been defined by any of them. I know there's hypocrisy involved, and like you say, Lafleur and some others around the team today can be tarred with the same brush, though it was a different world then.

I can't argue the point of view, and whenever his name comes up his dui comes to mind, but I'm not ready to deny him the honors that he's earned.

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