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Official Eskimos and CFL 2013 season thread Part 3: Eskies 3-9, I ain't even mad now

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09-08-2013, 07:57 AM
  #651
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How can we fault Reilly for not taking the time to look for the best read? Hello people 6 sacks again.

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09-08-2013, 08:06 AM
  #652
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The offense scored 12 points last night, it was a big problem. It scored 8 points through 53 minutes of football the previous game. The fact that we've exploded late in the 4th quarter of numerous games has masked how bad the offense has typically been in the first 3 quarters of most football games. And by the sounds of it, those big fourth quarters started occurring when Reilly started calling more of his own plays.
Reilly was bad on Friday. Maybe you missed my points on that. half his throws it doesn't matter what the call was he wasn't delivering the mail and wasn't finding the open routes. he did hit for a few brilliant throws but aside from that had a rough game where he was rushing throws all day even when he had time. I don't buy the bolded. The difference was simply prevent D, some momentum, and Calgary defenders starting to stiffen up after getting off their game feeling it was over. Its happened to a lot of clubs.

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We haven't run the ball enough in pretty much every game up until last night. 3rd down gambles and red zone performance has been an absolute gong show, though in fairness to Sams, the infamous "Joseph option sweep" play is probably a Kavis creation.
My take on this is Charles has been having some injury problems all year. Thats some conjecture I realize but I've seen him let up a few times this year with some kind of strain. Not just the real obvious one on the punt return. I think they've been limiting his play a bit and pacing it. When I say the play calling has been fine I should preface saying the last half dozen games or so. Which I think is reasonable. How many coaches with a new club hit the ground running? Not even Milanovich. Not quite. Takes half a season sometimes or more.

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Playcalling has improved from where it was in July, I'll give credit there. But not to the point where Sams gets a pass.
Yep, like I said it takes time. I generally throw the first games right out the window with a new coaching staff.

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Why any receivers are running routes that don't take them past the first down marker on 2nd down, I'll never know. The fact that those receivers are the primary in some cases is Maciocia-ism at its finest.
No argument there. Sometimes I think we're still in the Terry Vaughn era playbook with that yac on every catch expectation. lol.

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Execution was poor last night, part of the problem being that our receivers were seldom open on the long-developing plays that were constantly being sent it. We were constantly looking 30 yards downfield, or two yards across the flat. Henry and Bowman should feast on 6-12 yard routes, but that was rarely the play call.
My biggest concern was thinking that Calgary had never solved Henry pitch with him rolling out to flat, or the Bowman iso's. These were going to give the Stamps fits. We stopped going there. But this being the same game where Reilly stopped going to Stamps. Really I don't know where he was going. I swear Reilly called his own number 3 plays in a row. Not sure where he was going with that. Got carried away in his own hubris.

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How many screens or draws have we seen this year in an effort to back off the blitz? Pretty much none. Lots of shotgun handoffs to stationary backs though.
Yeah, agreed, I would like more motion out of the backfield and haven't liked the shotgun handoffs either. Good points.

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Those always work great. The coaching staff has clearly not learned a thing from the Montreal debacle, since we were still using shotgun handoffs on 2nd and short last night.
WE made one on the TD and failed another. But thing is we have no powerbacks. Specific to White he prefers to have a good look at the line and find a crease. This is not a back that likes to run into traffic. So in Whites case anyway it might make some sense. He;s a guy that can stop and start on a dime and look for a different hole. Harder to do that getting the pig closer to the line.

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I don't even remember seeing any sneaks this year on 2nd and 3rd and short. Who the hell does anything but a sneak in those situations? Nobody except the Eskimos, who are apparently smarter than everyone else.
I don't recall a whole lot of times where we've been second and short this year so I'm not sure. We've failed as we know at close second down conversions and with guys like Coehoorn failing to make the chains 90% of the time. So we haven't had a whole lot of third and inches.

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09-08-2013, 08:08 AM
  #653
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Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
How can we fault Reilly for not taking the time to look for the best read? Hello people 6 sacks again.
I explained carefully in past posts. This is the only game I've critiqued. Whether the pressure was there or not he was rushing through the pass and lookdowns and not really seeing anything. For instance he missed Stamps for sure TD passes twice in the game.
Had a bad game, it happens.

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09-08-2013, 09:19 AM
  #654
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I explained carefully in past posts. This is the only game I've critiqued. Whether the pressure was there or not he was rushing through the pass and lookdowns and not really seeing anything. For instance he missed Stamps for sure TD passes twice in the game.
Had a bad game, it happens.
That's simply the result of how often he gets hit. He likely now feels that not only does he need to go through his reads, but he needs to look at the pressure coming at him every time because his o-line is letting too many guys through. He's probably beginning to feel pressure regardless of if it's coming or not because of all the "in the pocket" contact he gets. Any first year starting QB would probably do the exact same thing in that situation. Heck, it even happened to Travis Lulay yesterday until he settled down in the 4th.

As an opposing fan, I can tell that Reilly will be an impressive QB if he can get a good/average O-line. And that's not a problem Hervey can fix by throwing more imports into the starting line-up.

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09-08-2013, 10:18 AM
  #655
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Ed Hervey. Worst gm in Eskimo history.

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09-08-2013, 10:20 AM
  #656
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Ed Hervey. Worst gm in Eskimo history.
Too early.

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09-08-2013, 10:39 AM
  #657
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Ed Hervey. Worst gm in Eskimo history.
And Grant Shaw is the best kicker the Eskimos have had since Hank Ilisec. Lol.

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09-08-2013, 11:29 AM
  #658
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Ed Hervey. Worst gm in Eskimo history.
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Too early.
Agreed.

But the schtik by both Kavis with reactive promises of accountability that don't seem to manifest themselves, and Eddie's recent "mark my words" promises for change both seem empty.

Tillman's body of work was afforded more than half a season before being deemed a failure. Hervey's due no less. But it isn't looking good, that's for sure.

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09-08-2013, 12:12 PM
  #659
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That's simply the result of how often he gets hit. He likely now feels that not only does he need to go through his reads, but he needs to look at the pressure coming at him every time because his o-line is letting too many guys through. He's probably beginning to feel pressure regardless of if it's coming or not because of all the "in the pocket" contact he gets. Any first year starting QB would probably do the exact same thing in that situation. Heck, it even happened to Travis Lulay yesterday until he settled down in the 4th.

As an opposing fan, I can tell that Reilly will be an impressive QB if he can get a good/average O-line. And that's not a problem Hervey can fix by throwing more imports into the starting line-up.
Without a doubt. I also stated the same thing a couple pages back. Not blaming Reilly, just saying. Its hard to blame Sams though when the plays are set on the table and the execution isn't happening. Which ultimately has more to do with the O line failing from the start on Friday.

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09-08-2013, 02:01 PM
  #660
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Agreed.

But the schtik by both Kavis with reactive promises of accountability that don't seem to manifest themselves, and Eddie's recent "mark my words" promises for change both seem empty.

Tillman's body of work was afforded more than half a season before being deemed a failure. Hervey's due no less. But it isn't looking good, that's for sure.
This simply isnt true. Many people were vehemently against him before he even moved into his office. As far as Ed goes, his record speaks for itself. 1-9. Worst record in recent memory, perhaps maybe even ever after ten games. Didnt address the return game, didnt solve the porous offensive line, managed to downgrade our defense, brought in yet another kicker who cant kick, and extended a head coach whose poor decision making has cost us at least four games.

It doesnt get any worse than that.

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09-08-2013, 02:12 PM
  #661
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Dave Campbell is busy on Twitter defending a coach who is 3-17 over his last 20 games. Unbelievable.

The Eskimo apologist Campbell makes Dan Tencer look like an Oiler trasher. He is pathetic the way he defends everything this organization does.

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09-08-2013, 02:18 PM
  #662
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There is no defending a team that is 1-9 in the CFL.

Sorry, there is NO WAY.

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09-08-2013, 02:21 PM
  #663
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Theres a fine line in sports between believing in yourself and not. One gets the feeling if this club ever could win a game they would win a few in a row. Or more.

Its a horrible funk which as I stated several posts back makes even good players look not so good. The pressure gets in peoples head and they overperform, drop balls, jump plays, lose contain.

With Calgary its night and day. Didn't have to do much, just limit mistakes (which they made several anyway) and do enough to Win. It was a strange game and the result having more to do with momentum than anything.

Heres the deal. On a good confident club Paredes kicked 5 in a row and never even looked like missing. On the other hand O Neill, who is just as good flat out misses 2 because he has the pressure of playing on a club that can't afford to make mistakes.

It gets in your head when you are part of a team facing this kind of nosedive.

The cure is to blow a club right out of the ballpark. A game that you win by 3 or 4 TD's. Thats the type of game this team needs. When every player up and down the lineup is flying around making plays and playing agressive. When you're in a losing streak a whole lot of tentative creeps into the play.

I'll say this, theres nothing wrong with Sams as offensive coordinator. He's devised schemes that are working virtually all the time. The execution hasn't been there.
Really? I couldn't disagree more. The amount of type plays called with a 5 yard out when we need 12 are too many to list. Most of Mike Reilly's success at running is when he's escaping the rush and fleeing for his life. Too many successful pass plays have been as a result of our receivers making tremendous catches in traffic or an opposition player falling down. I've hardly ever seen a play this year where our receivers are not covered like a blanket due to unimaginative play calling. Last game, for example, they called a simple out to White which was successful the first time. It became less and less successful each time they went back to the well and tried it, until finally it went for a loss or was broken up. There were no other plays made based off of that play and no adjustments. Since he's been called out on our short yardage fiasco, we are 1 for 1. A small sample size for sure, but the continual predictable and useless Kerry Joseph sweeps were getting too much even for our normally tight lipped GM. And for one night at least, we did the proper thing and bull dozed the ball in, like every other team does.

And as has been stated, much of what limited success we've had, has come when Reilly started calling his own plays. That is a pretty damming situation for an OC that you think is wonderful.

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09-08-2013, 02:28 PM
  #664
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Ed Hervey. Worst gm in Eskimo history.
Boy, you don't remember the 60's and beginning of the 70's do you?

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09-08-2013, 02:36 PM
  #665
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Really? I couldn't disagree more. The amount of type plays called with a 5 yard out when we need 12 are too many to list. Most of Mike Reilly's success at running is when he's escaping the rush and fleeing for his life. Too many successful pass plays have been as a result of our receivers making tremendous catches in traffic or an opposition player falling down. I've hardly ever seen a play this year where our receivers are not covered like a blanket due to unimaginative play calling. Last game, for example, they called a simple out to White which was successful the first time. It became less and less successful each time they went back to the well and tried it, until finally it went for a loss or was broken up. There were no other plays made based off of that play and no adjustments. Since he's been called out on our short yardage fiasco, we are 1 for 1. A small sample size for sure, but the continual predictable and useless Kerry Joseph sweeps were getting too much even for our normally tight lipped GM. And for one night at least, we did the proper thing and bull dozed the ball in, like every other team does.

And as has been stated, much of what limited success we've had, has come when Reilly started calling his own plays. That is a pretty damming situation for an OC that you think is wonderful.
Already reconsidered after Kyles excellent post. I can see it both ways. Theres plays that work and don't work. In the Macciocia era there was a lot of plays that don't work. I guess its been so long I kinda get used to the garbage play calling.

ps I don't know that it was Reilly calling his own plays late in the Calgary game. Could be, but nobody really knows. You can't judge much anyway when the opponent is 5 scores ahead and in a prevent D and not bringing it.

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09-08-2013, 04:43 PM
  #666
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Already reconsidered after Kyles excellent post. I can see it both ways. Theres plays that work and don't work. In the Macciocia era there was a lot of plays that don't work. I guess its been so long I kinda get used to the garbage play calling.

ps I don't know that it was Reilly calling his own plays late in the Calgary game. Could be, but nobody really knows. You can't judge much anyway when the opponent is 5 scores ahead and in a prevent D and not bringing it.
I remember reading back a month ago that Reilly was starting to call more of his own plays. That was right when the offense actually started to perform on a semi-regular basis.

Overall the playcalling has gone from lousy to average, the Joseph sweeps aside (which I blame on Reed). Sure it's an improvement, but not enough that I'd keep Sams around when the rest of the staff (I hope) gets sacked at the end of the year. The scheming has remained quite poor IMO. I'm not sure how much of that is Sams and how much is Reed.

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09-08-2013, 04:50 PM
  #667
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This simply isnt true. Many people were vehemently against him before he even moved into his office. As far as Ed goes, his record speaks for itself. 1-9. Worst record in recent memory, perhaps maybe even ever after ten games. Didnt address the return game, didnt solve the porous offensive line, managed to downgrade our defense, brought in yet another kicker who cant kick, and extended a head coach whose poor decision making has cost us at least four games.

It doesnt get any worse than that.
These are all facts.

People were dancing in the streets when Tillman got axed and Hervey was brought in to restore the "Eskimo way"...not sure where those people are now. Tillman is probably having a pretty good chuckle at the moment.

I was skeptical about Hervey, but was willing to give him a chance. All bets were off once he extended Reed though. The fact that he still hasn't fired him at this point is unforgivable and should cost him his job as well.

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09-08-2013, 04:52 PM
  #668
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These are all facts.

People were dancing in the streets when Tillman got axed and Hervey was brought in to restore the "Eskimo way"...not sure where those people are now. Tillman is probably having a pretty good chuckle at the moment.

I was skeptical about Hervey, but was willing to give him a chance. All bets were off once he extended Reed though. The fact that he still hasn't fired him at this point is unforgivable and should cost him his job as well.
Why, Till man is chuckling because he was only the 2nd worst GM in Eskimo history? Hmm, would sure make me proud.

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09-08-2013, 05:02 PM
  #669
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Why, Till man is chuckling because he was only the 2nd worst GM in Eskimo history? Hmm, would sure make me proud.
Not even close, you forget about DM??? Come on, you can hate Tillman for one trade but Hervey and DM don't even come close to Tillman.

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09-08-2013, 05:13 PM
  #670
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Why, Till man is chuckling because he was only the 2nd worst GM in Eskimo history? Hmm, would sure make me proud.
Forgot about Danny Maciocia in a hurry eh? Tillman had a .500 record, made a Western final, made the playoffs both years. Brought in pretty much every good player currently on the team. Went into a season with Steven Jyles as QB and traded a 1st rounder for a punter on the other side of the ledger. Tough to argue that he did worse than average. But there was a rather vocal contingent in here convinced that he was a complete disaster and Special Ed would have us back on the right track. That worked out well.

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09-08-2013, 05:41 PM
  #671
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Blue Bombers 24
Roughriders 13

11:44 left in the 4th quarter.

The Eskimos are going to be the worst team in the CFL, a bloody eight team league, barring a back to back sweep of Winnipeg.

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09-08-2013, 05:46 PM
  #672
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Blue Bombers 24
Roughriders 13

11:44 left in the 4th quarter.

The Eskimos are going to be the worst team in the CFL, a bloody eight team league, barring a back to back sweep of Winnipeg.
I just knew the Riders would lay down this week. Just to make Esks more of a joke. Its like the Esks find a way to lose twice in one weekend.

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09-08-2013, 05:47 PM
  #673
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This simply isnt true. Many people were vehemently against him before he even moved into his office. As far as Ed goes, his record speaks for itself. 1-9. Worst record in recent memory, perhaps maybe even ever after ten games. Didnt address the return game, didnt solve the porous offensive line, managed to downgrade our defense, brought in yet another kicker who cant kick, and extended a head coach whose poor decision making has cost us at least four games.

It doesnt get any worse than that.
I referred to him as having been somewhat "lame duck" to date in my earlier post, so don't misread me as being an Ed Hervey advocate.

But the facts that the on-field results aren't (yet?) there, and that many were "vehemently against" his hiring in the first place don't serve to distinguish him from his predecessor who'd been granted more than half a season to determine what he can bring to the equation. I'm not saying give Eddie the same length of tenure. Only that I believe it's too early to fire him.

I'm there too, enduring the losing outcomes and the brutal LRT waits. But imo, the closeness of the results themselves are more indicative of a lack of execution than personnel issues.

I can see Kavis answering for the debacle before Hervey. And I'm not sure that this will be happening before season's end.

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09-08-2013, 05:52 PM
  #674
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I just knew the Riders would lay down this week. Just to make Esks more of a joke. Its like the Esks find a way to lose twice in one weekend.
Yup.

God, Darian Durant annoys the hell out of me. Probably the most bi-polar, over-hyped star QB in league history.

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09-08-2013, 06:09 PM
  #675
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I hate to pull a Dan Tencer and "blame" the fans but the fans at Commonwealth have been pretty awful for a few years now. Cheering and yelling when the Eskimos are on offense and complete silence when the team is on defense. It's sad.

Look at these Bombers fans. Loud and proud when their team is on defense and needs a stop. What happened to Edmonton football fans? I'm not sure if I can lay the blame solely on Maciocia and Tillman either. Bombers fans have had to deal with a lot of bad teams and heartbreak as well.

Flag ship franchise of the CFL? Hah. Bombers fans and Riders fans are by FAR the best fans in the league.

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