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Old
09-08-2013, 10:25 AM
  #476
Joe Hallenback
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I thought Marco Roy was pretty dammed good last night.

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09-08-2013, 10:35 AM
  #477
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
You liked Kessy hey? Dime a dozen thug with no talent. My own preference being the league and hockey move away from players like this.


Again, if you could see any of this in relation to another player we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. I just think its odd how quickly you can think a player is going to have a solid NHL career on the basis of two games, getting a few chances, going 0-0-0, and being -4. I think what set me off tbh is years of frustration with the club and people going off about a player like he's a ringer or something in the midst of him, and the entire team taking it on the chin. It was a hopeless couple of outings and I don't think its hard to see nobody in that milieu should be singled out for easy praise.



He's 19 in weeks, small player, limited offensive skill around the net, not much of a goal scorer, not much hockey sense in traffic, I've seen this nature of player so many times. As with anything calls are probability based. I say the kid doesn't have an NHL future. Pretty much what I see with that. You seem to think with some poundage he'll have a "solid NHL career"

Guess what side probability lines up on? I would bet on this easy and win. Taking candy.

Funny you referenced Teubert. That was the bust I called a couple of years back after seeing preseason games. afairc you thought he was going to have quite a career. But thats your take with any middling prospect with a pulse.
Looks like Replacement has made up his mind on a few more players. Can't wait to hear him rambling about them for the remainder of their time as Oilers no matter how good or bad they play.

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09-08-2013, 10:56 AM
  #478
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Looks like Replacement has made up his mind on a few more players. Can't wait to hear him rambling about them for the remainder of their time as Oilers no matter how good or bad they play.
It's like arguing with a wall. There's absolutely little to no logic.

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09-08-2013, 11:11 AM
  #479
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It's like arguing with a wall. There's absolutely little to no logic.
Nah. You just have to know how to argue with him.

It's a very subtle approach.

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09-08-2013, 11:41 AM
  #480
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Was at both games so far and will be going today as well.
I must say it is quite concerning how little we have for decent prospect depth after so many years of sucking the hind tit. I understand its early to be jumping to conclusions but we have been owned in the first two games. In fact, the defense that was supposed to be so good can't even make a outlet pass.
Obviously our top picks aren't at the game but there should be a bit more depth quality. Lets just hope it's just a bit of rust.

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09-08-2013, 11:43 AM
  #481
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That fight was awesome. Was sitting right there up against the glass and the jets guy, I think his name was Daley?, got at least 3 teeth knocked out. Literally the teeth went flying through the air. My kids thought that was quite something.

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09-08-2013, 11:46 AM
  #482
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Originally Posted by RustE View Post
all the moaning about our prospects. you might have noticed the Mark Sheifele was on the Jets prospect roster. He was drafted the same year as RNH. and Yakupov wasn't in our prospect lineup either. might have a bit to do with why their rosters appear better than ours.

All these posts are totally missing the point: it's not about our prospects versus their prospects.

It's simply about our prospects measured against where they ought to be at given their draft position and development time. Should they have won the game? Nope. Should they have been able to play half decent hockey? Yes. Should we have had a strong defense? Yes.

Were they disappointing relative to reasonable expectations in these two games? Yes.

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09-08-2013, 12:54 PM
  #483
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Oilers fall to 0-2, as Jets explode for seven



http://www.ourhometown.ca/hockey/HH0155.php

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09-08-2013, 12:59 PM
  #484
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Originally Posted by ZedenoCiger View Post
That fight was awesome. Was sitting right there up against the glass and the jets guy, I think his name was Daley?, got at least 3 teeth knocked out. Literally the teeth went flying through the air. My kids thought that was quite something.
Are you sure those were teeth? I thought it was a piece of his helmet or something.

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09-08-2013, 01:40 PM
  #485
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Originally Posted by Tad Mikowsky View Post
It's like arguing with a wall. There's absolutely little to no logic.
He's jealous that Marco Roy, a small, skilled center is getting more positive attention from HFOil than another particular small, skilled center.

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09-08-2013, 02:03 PM
  #486
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He's jealous that Marco Roy, a small, skilled center is getting more positive attention from HFOil than another particular small, skilled center.
Or he's just trying to stir the pot.


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09-08-2013, 02:05 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
You liked Kessy hey? Dime a dozen thug with no talent. My own preference being the league and hockey move away from players like this.
Yeah I know, I know, you hate fighting but when Gagner does it he is brave and captain material.

Quote:
Again, if you could see any of this in relation to another player we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. I just think its odd how quickly you can think a player is going to have a solid NHL career on the basis of two games, getting a few chances, going 0-0-0, and being -4. I think what set me off tbh is years of frustration with the club and people going off about a player like he's a ringer or something in the midst of him, and the entire team taking it on the chin. It was a hopeless couple of outings and I don't think its hard to see nobody in that milieu should be singled out for easy praise.
It's a team game, it's not his fault that his team as a whole is struggling. No points = bust, really? I guess that's all she wrote folks, time to trade Marco for a bag of Old Dutch and a Molson Canadian bottle cap because Replacement has spoken.

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He's 19 in weeks, small player, limited offensive skill around the net, not much of a goal scorer, not much hockey sense in traffic, I've seen this nature of player so many times. As with anything calls are probability based. I say the kid doesn't have an NHL future. Pretty much what I see with that. You seem to think with some poundage he'll have a "solid NHL career"
You know it really is too bad that you didn't watch him before we drafted him, you could've saved our team wasting a 2nd round pick on him.

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Guess what side probability lines up on? I would bet on this easy and win. Taking candy.
Bookmark this post and bump it in 5 years then if you are certain that he won't be an NHLer, that'll show me.

Quote:
Funny you referenced Teubert. That was the bust I called a couple of years back after seeing preseason games. afairc you thought he was going to have quite a career. But thats your take with any middling prospect with a pulse.
IIRC you called him a bust after the rookie camp (LONG before this tournament) because you didn't like the way that he made a Lasagna or some ridiculous **** along those lines. Any which way, we've got you down for Klefbom being a bust, Roy being a bust, and Kessy being a bust, any others that you'd like to add on for the record?

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Originally Posted by ZedenoCiger View Post
That fight was awesome. Was sitting right there up against the glass and the jets guy, I think his name was Daley?, got at least 3 teeth knocked out. Literally the teeth went flying through the air. My kids thought that was quite something.
Nice to know that Bilke has that kind of pop with his non dominant hand, I'd be fine signing this kid, he can move decent enough for his player type and maybe in time he could be 6'2" and about 230-235lbs. and a handful for all but the biggest of heavyweights.

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09-08-2013, 02:30 PM
  #488
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Yeah I know, I know, you hate fighting but when Gagner does it he is brave and captain material.
The org brings in any number of these guys and it never changes anything. See Eager, see Brown etc. Plus we wasted countless picks through the years on big bodies. See the 90's. Guys like this with no skill do absolutely nothing for your club. I'm not responsible for that, just describing the water. Why do you think I always like Raffi Torres? Guy could actually play hockey, contribute, and put fear into the opposition on ice. Far as Gagner fighting, pass, stupid thing to do.

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It's a team game, it's not his fault that his team as a whole is struggling. No points = bust, really? I guess that's all she wrote folks, time to trade Marco for a bag of Old Dutch and a Molson Canadian bottle cap because Replacement has spoken.
No, probability. Given this clubs draft record outside of a few players everything drafted after high first round is complete junk. Could really say that over the last twenty years. You watch an Oilers prospect club and somehow see half a dozen bonafide solid NHLers on it. I see 1 or 2 if that. Been this way for as long as we've both been posting here. The Oilers are generally ****** at drafting beyond round 1. Safest bet out there is anything after round 1 is a bust if it smells like an oilers prospect.


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You know it really is too bad that you didn't watch him before we drafted him, you could've saved our team wasting a 2nd round pick on him.
Well this club loves wasting picks so could be that or I'm out to lunch. How's Moroz doing? Another bust. Although can't really call it that because he was nothing in the first place.

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Bookmark this post and bump it in 5 years then if you are certain that he won't be an NHLer, that'll show me.
Well no, it never will because frankly you never learn either. 10 yrs later you'll still be found trumping middling Oiler draft picks here that will amount to nothing and calling them solid future NHL players on the basis of nothing. Its not like this its any new thing. hell, in another thread your waxing on about Platzers shot (sp). Means nothing, the guy got 5 goals last year. It was an atypical snipe. Anybody that has played hockey competitively knows that once in awhile you get a good one away and everything on it. Doesn't mean you have much of a shot if you can't replicate it consistently.

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IIRC you called him a bust after the rookie camp (LONG before this tournament) because you didn't like the way that he made a Lasagna or some ridiculous **** along those lines. Any which way, we've got you down for Klefbom being a bust, Roy being a bust, and Kessy being a bust, any others that you'd like to add on for the record?
lol. You know the Teubert thing. We were having the same conversation right at the time that Teubert was getting his lights knocked senseless in a meaningless fight that was ill advised.
As far as others was I wrong on any of Brule, Omark, Belanger, Eager, Brown, Moroz, Stortini, Peckham or any other number of guys that I've called useless? We all have our views and players we like, dislike. The key is detecting what a player will be able to bring to an NHL lineup.

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Nice to know that Bilke has that kind of pop with his non dominant hand, I'd be fine signing this kid, he can move decent enough for his player type and maybe in time he could be 6'2" and about 230-235lbs. and a handful for all but the biggest of heavyweights.
One thinks you'd reinvent an Oilers lineup with 5 drooling heavyweights all jumping over benches looking for fights in the OK corral. Pass. The dinosaur game has passed by. No neanderthals need apply. If you can't play hockey you're no use in the NHL in any capacity.

Glad your not in charge and you've been wrong on literally every hockey player since Schremp. Frankly I don't remember when you've ever been right.


Last edited by Replacement: 09-08-2013 at 02:47 PM.
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Old
09-08-2013, 02:42 PM
  #489
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Any video of kessy's fight?

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09-08-2013, 02:48 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by The Bored Man View Post
Or he's just trying to stir the pot.

Klefbom was part of Penner deal same with Tuebert he hates both Players Was a Penner hater till others started to bash Penner than Defended him huge, explains the Klefbom dislike . Hated N Schultz says Oilers made huge mistake trading Gilbert, Enjoy Swiss League Tommy.


Now this Marco Roy is a bust came out of thin air when its Obvious by everyone he has been the best forward on this prospect squad creating something every time on ice although no luck in points, says he is getting batted around at every turn but leads team in shots all from the hard areas of the ice. So to your bold bingo, would also like to see this batting around he is getting sure he has some clips of it.

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09-08-2013, 02:51 PM
  #491
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Klefbom was part of Penner deal same with Tuebert he hates both Players Was a Penner hater till others started to bash Penner than Defended him huge, explains the Klefbom dislike . Hated N Schultz says Oilers made huge mistake trading Gilbert, Enjoy Swiss League Tommy.


Now this Marco Roy is a bust came out of thin air when its Obvious by everyone he has been the best forward on this prospect squad creating something every time on ice although no luck in points, says he is getting batted around at every turn but leads team in shots all from the hard areas of the ice. So to your bold bingo, would also like to see this batting around he is getting sure he has some clips of it.
I don't dislike Klefbom at all. I like the potential, its going to take a longwhile is all. Injury really set him back.

The guy is a silky smooth skater that can think the game well. Whats not to like?

Major chunks of rust to get rid of though and it takes along time to get back on track after missing so long this early in a players development. How that equates to I hate Klefbom I don't know.

btw saying Roy is the best oilers forward prospect in the tourney is essentially saying nothing. I don't know that one of these forwards adds up to an NHL Player. Oilers batting record certainly being on my side.

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09-08-2013, 03:04 PM
  #492
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The org brings in any number of these guys and it never changes anything. See Eager, see Brown etc. Plus we wasted countless picks through the years on big bodies. See the 90's. Guys like this with no skill do absolutely nothing for your club. I'm not responsible for that, just describing the water. Why do you think I always like Raffi Torres? Guy could actually play hockey, contribute, and put fear into the opposition on ice. Far as Gagner fighting, pass, stupid thing to do.
Torres was good when he'd hit, perhaps if he was 1/2 as good as you think he is he would've stuck somewhere by now? How many teams has he been on since he left?

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No, probability. Given this clubs draft record outside of a few players everything drafted after high first round is complete junk. Could really say that over the last twenty years. You watch an Oilers prospect club and somehow see half a dozen bonafide solid NHLers on it. I see 1 or 2 if that. Been this way for as long as we've both been posting here. The Oilers are generally ****** at drafting beyond round 1. Safest bet out there is anything after round 1 is a bust if it smells like an oilers prospect.
Seeing as we have a new head scout (within the last 5 years or so) I don't think that it's unreasonable to think that we might have a few more hits than before. Drafting as high as we have sure as hell shouldn't hurt that ideology either. Who are those 1-2 NHL players in your eyes? IMO there are potentially more but I won't name any until you name yours.

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Well this club loves wasting picks so could be that or I'm out to lunch. How's Moroz doing? Another bust. Although can't really call it that because he was nothing in the first place.
Moroz is hurt, not currently playing, kind of hard to judge a kid when you can't see him on the ice.

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Well no, it never will because frankly you never learn either. 10 yrs later you'll still be found trumping middling Oiler draft picks here that will amount to nothing and calling them solid future NHL players on the basis of nothing. Its not like this its any new thing. hell, in another thread your waxing on about Platzers shot (sp). Means nothing, the guy got 5 goals last year. It was an atypical snipe. Anybody that has played hockey competitively knows that once in awhile you get a good one away and everything on it. Doesn't mean you have much of a shot if you can't replicate it consistently.
I never said that Platzer was NHL material, I said that he had a very good shot last night, I guess it's not enough that I can't have optimism for some players that you don't, now I can't even say that a player made a good play? How about no? If you don't like it's that tough for you.

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lol. You know the Teubert thing. We were having the same conversation right at the time that Teubert was getting his lights knocked senseless in a meaningless fight that was ill advised.
As far as others was I wrong on any of Brule, Omark, Belanger, Eager, Brown, Moroz, Stortini, Peckham or any other number of guys that I've called useless? We all have our views and players we like, dislike. The key is detecting what a player will be able to bring to an NHL lineup.
You were writing off Teubert because of a ****ing cooking video on oilers.com, of all of the ridiculous reasons that I've heard for people to label someone a bust or a non bust that one takes the cake (maybe his cake making got you hot under the collar?). Oh damn, the way that he cracked those eggs and made the cake mix has got me STEAMING MAD!

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One thinks you'd reinvent an Oilers lineup with 5 drooling heavyweights all jumping over benches looking for fights in the OK corral. Pass. The dinosaur game has passed by. No neanderthals need apply. If you can't play hockey you're no use in the NHL in any capacity.
This is why players like these are still employed while your personal hero Tammy Gilbert is in Switzerland. As pissed as you were about the Penner and Gilbert trades you'd think that we had traded Glenn Anderson and Paul Coffey.

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Glad your not in charge and you've been wrong on literally every hockey player since Schremp. Frankly I don't remember when you've ever been right.
Apparently your memory is as bad as your eyesight based on your comments so I won't waste my time telling you instances that I have been right because you'll just forget them as soon as you finish reading it. Oh well we'll always have that cooking video eh Replacement?

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09-08-2013, 03:04 PM
  #493
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I think people on here just like to take unpopular opinions on young players when they show glimpses of promise, because it's most likely they won't pan out in the NHL. Investing now so they can pull out some "I told you sos" later when that time comes.

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09-08-2013, 03:10 PM
  #494
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IIRC you called him a bust after the rookie camp (LONG before this tournament) because you didn't like the way that he made a Lasagna or some ridiculous **** along those lines.
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
You were writing off Teubert because of a ****ing cooking video on oilers.com, of all of the ridiculous reasons that I've heard for people to label someone a bust or a non bust that one takes the cake (maybe his cake making got you hot under the collar?). Oh damn, the way that he cracked those eggs and made the cake mix has got me STEAMING MAD!

Lord knows I like to bicker with Replacement as much as the next guy, but my memory is that Replacement and a few others (me included) called Teubert a loudmouth, brainless dovchebag after watching him show his "leadership" qualities in a few behind-the-scenes features. Nothing to with his hockey skills one way or another, really. As for predicting he'd bust, most of his detractors didn't so much predict he would bust as point out that as far as LA was concerned, he already HAD busted when we traded for him, being a regular healthy scratch on their ECHL affiliate at the time. His play at the Young Stars tourney just confirmed this.


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09-08-2013, 03:11 PM
  #495
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I think I've been most impressed with Jujhar Khaira this year. From interviews with him and his former coaches he seems crazy driven, and has continued to improve evidently up until now. Not sure where his ceiling is, but with his size and frame, drive and determination, I think he's the most likely forward to slot into the Oilers in the nearer future, given the top 6 are pretty much locked up (unless size+skill comes along). Guys like Roy could do something way down the line or if a piece gets traded, but Khaira could be up in a year or two if he progresses like this.

Klefbom is going to slowly come around, but I won't watch closely for the first couple months of the AHL season. It'll probably be ugly, and then meh, and then "Okay, here we go".

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09-08-2013, 03:12 PM
  #496
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I guess watching Edmonton sports teams just makes some people miserable around here on a consistent basis, hey?

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09-08-2013, 03:20 PM
  #497
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Torres was good when he'd hit, perhaps if he was 1/2 as good as you think he is he would've stuck somewhere by now? How many teams has he been on since he left?



Seeing as we have a new head scout (within the last 5 years or so) I don't think that it's unreasonable to think that we might have a few more hits than before. Drafting as high as we have sure as hell shouldn't hurt that ideology either. Who are those 1-2 NHL players in your eyes? IMO there are potentially more but I won't name any until you name yours.



Moroz is hurt, not currently playing, kind of hard to judge a kid when you can't see him on the ice.



I never said that Platzer was NHL material, I said that he had a very good shot last night, I guess it's not enough that I can't have optimism for some players that you don't, now I can't even say that a player made a good play? How about no? If you don't like it's that tough for you.



You were writing off Teubert because of a ****ing cooking video on oilers.com, of all of the ridiculous reasons that I've heard for people to label someone a bust or a non bust that one takes the cake (maybe his cake making got you hot under the collar?). Oh damn, the way that he cracked those eggs and made the cake mix has got me STEAMING MAD!



This is why players like these are still employed while your personal hero Tammy Gilbert is in Switzerland. As pissed as you were about the Penner and Gilbert trades you'd think that we had traded Glenn Anderson and Paul Coffey.



Apparently your memory is as bad as your eyesight based on your comments so I won't waste my time telling you instances that I have been right because you'll just forget them as soon as you finish reading it. Oh well we'll always have that cooking video eh Replacement?

Quick response.

Torres has been on good teams since here and well regarded on those good clubs. But in the case of the Canucks them not really seeing the value. Torres won't get a big contract anywhere because of the baggage, and Shanaban, but a solid hockey player and more consistent with hitting then maybe he was here. I see a more workman like attitude since being here. Also consider he doesn't get huge minutes and hit totals still up there. Plus that he has to worry about any hit being considered as axe murder. Mainly due to how hard he hits and that guys get some whiplash regardless of whether he initiates head contact or not. Still say one of the best pure hitters in the game. Generates tons of force through his legs. Think Peca but only stronger.

Optimism as far as this club checked out years ago with me. Really hard to be positive about the teams record of drafting post round 1 and I don't expect that to change much. Part of the reason is I see the team chronically going after certain types of players, then changing direction, changing direction, and it never stops. This is that drafts Steve Kelly instead of Shane Doan and the inanity hasn't stopped since then. Thankfully theres enough acumen in the org that they managed to pronounce Hall, RNH, Yakupov correctly.

As far as the lineup I saw last night the only players I see having much of a chance are Klefbom, Marancin, Mucil, Gernat. Pretty much what most people thought going in.

Gilbert, yeah, still like the player, they didn't I guess in Minny, lol. Not that I think N Schultz has been much better here. Just that this is a much weaker lineup to crack. Gilbert would still be here if he was still here if that makes any sense.

But I'll give you the Gilbert bone.


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09-08-2013, 03:23 PM
  #498
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I guess watching Edmonton sports teams just makes some people miserable around here on a consistent basis, hey?
This is the Oilers site right? Not far from the truth though. Although I keep looking forward to a turnaround. Anytime soon would be good.

I wouldn't remember how to act if an Edmonton based club ever won anything.

I'd pick the "Groucho" name but its already taken. Maybe curmudgeon.


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09-08-2013, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by NAF View Post
Lord knows I like to bicker with Replacement as much as the next guy, but my memory is that Replacement and a few others (me included) called Teubert a loudmouth, brainless dovchebag after watching him show his "leadership" qualities in a few behind-the-scenes features. Nothing to with his hockey skills one way or another, really. As for predicting he'd bust, most of his detractors didn't so much predict he would bust as point out that as far as LA was concerned, he already HAD busted when we traded for him, being a regular healthy scratch on their ECHL affiliate at the time. His play at the Young Stars tourney just confirmed this.
Man its hard fighting the tide sometimes. lol the cooking thing just revealed Teubert being a DB. You got that right. Thought he was kind of offensive too regarding some of the European players in the fold. My assessment on his hockey skills came from Anaheim and from Jr's and from prospects.

You are correct though. He was a bust by the time he got here. So was Brule. But there were tons of believers here for both. Not a bad thing. I just don't do well at blind optimism.
Although apparently I have some gifts in blind pessimism. I can blame that on learned behavior though. Damned conditioned response..I'm twitching here..

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09-08-2013, 03:41 PM
  #500
Groucho
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Originally Posted by bucks_oil View Post
Well alright, since you asked:

Niemi: has gone on from his cup run to be in the top ten in SPCT in the years since. He is a solid, solid goalie, would need to string several more seasons together to convince me to use "elite" if we're talking about career, but he's clearly in the conversation for "Top 10" based on recent performance.

Crawford: This one surprises me a little. I don't like his style, and I've seen the Oilers light him up, so I'm very biased. So I don't like the idea of calling him Elite... that said: in his 3 seasons in the NHL he has accomplished: rookie all-star team, top 10 GAA in 2 out of his first 3 seasons, a Jennings trophy, a top ten SPCT season, a career SPCT of 0.913, a playoff SPCT of 0.924, and an invite to play for team Canada. I'm reaching the point where I may have to let his actual performance quell my own biases.

Fleury: Is a headcase for sure... overpaid... but when he's on, he's (IMO) a top-ten goalie in the league. I was at the Joe Louis for game 7... he stole that game and won that cup for his team. To my point... he was providing elite goaltending when they won the cup.

Thomas: as previously elaborated, it was a mistake to suggest he was not an elite goalie.
Maybe we have different definitions of elite.
I'm willing to concede I was wrong about Thomas, you're right, he was an elite goalie.
But there is no way you're convincing me that Corey Crawford, MAF, or Anton Niemi are elite goalies. Sure, they're solid NHL starters, but elite? I'm talking about the upper 1%ers, maybe "elite" just gets tossed around too willie nillie.

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