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Mark Scheifele and Jacob Trouba

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Old
09-08-2013, 03:36 PM
  #26
scelaton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
If Trouba is 4-6 keep. If he's 7-8 go to the rock.

If Scheif is 2C or 3C keep. If not go to the rock.
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Originally Posted by jimmycrackcorn View Post
Vito. I agree 100%.
And listening to an interview with Chevy from a few months back - I believe that the Jets are committed to putting the best team possible on the ice.
So, if you are the 5th best defenseman and 3rd best center - you will be on the roster.
I don't think it is quite that simple, as development curves and ELC have to be taken into account.
With Trouba, as with Sheif in the OHL last year, he may benefit from the AHL, playing big minutes in every situation, while fine tuning his weaknesses. ( And he clearly has weaknesses) Even if he could theoretically help the team this year as a #6, he might help the team more over the long term if he is allowed to properly finish his pre-NHL development. That may take 20, 40 or 80 games in St Johns. We'll have to see what he does in the pre-season and first 10 NHL games.
As for ELC, I am firmly of the belief that in a capped environment, pre-maturely burning the first year of a potentially great player's contract is not in the best long-term interests of the team. The businessmen on the board may wish to elaborate.

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09-08-2013, 03:36 PM
  #27
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Scheif did fall down a few times. I noticed late in last nights game he would put himself in a bad position to stay upright and made it easy for a defender to knock him down. Otherwise, he's loads better then last year though. Time against pros should help strengthen him.

Trouba has some work to do in his own zone. Like some have said, he tends to freelance a bit. But man, he has some quick acceleration when he turns up the ice. It's like we got another pair of Toby and Zach in Jacob and Josh. That's a top 4 that could skate with the best.

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09-08-2013, 03:43 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
If Trouba is 4-6 keep. If he's 7-8 go to the rock.

If Scheif is 2C or 3C keep. If not go to the rock.
I am not sure they'd keep Trouba in a 3rd pairing role unless he is head and shoulders better than both Redmond and Postma.

Big minutes on the Rock could be good for his development.

Will be interesting to watch.

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09-08-2013, 03:54 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTuna49 View Post
Scheif did fall down a few times. I noticed late in last nights game he would put himself in a bad position to stay upright and made it easy for a defender to knock him down. Otherwise, he's loads better then last year though. Time against pros should help strengthen him.
I was paying a lot of attention to that too. In situations he would've easily fallen down even a year ago, he was very strong on his feet.

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09-08-2013, 03:56 PM
  #30
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Mark "relaxes" too much, and narrows his stance when he does that. He's gotten better, but to be honest, if that's the worst thing about his game, being #hartnelldown2.0 is ok in my books. His skating is a lot more effortless, his acceleration is better, and strength on his skates has improved. Happy with his progress: now it's time for him to show his stuff against NHL players this year.

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09-08-2013, 06:45 PM
  #31
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it's not like the Jets are 6 deep on D.
if Clitsome's our 4th best d-man (and i am jumping for joy if, in a year, he's our 5th best d-man), then who is #5? Stuart?
let's be realistic. Stuart's a #6 d-man. a depth d-man.
you look at Redmond and Postma and they're more or less interchangeable parts (although i like Redmond more from what i saw of him).
if Trouba's a liability in our zone? then yes, seasoning in the A is needed.
But are we seriously saying that Stuart's not a liability? or Buff?

we had a goalie that ranked 34 and 37 in GAA and SV%. part of that blame has to be put on the D.

if one's expecting much of a downgrade n D with Trouba, I'd argue that we don't have much further to drop.

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09-08-2013, 07:43 PM
  #32
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The way I look at it is we may "need" Mark in our top 9 this year and unless he looks lost early he could easily stick out of necessity and or kicking the door down.

with Jacob I have zero doubt he could play in the NHL in a bottom pair semi sheltered roll and do quite well this season. However I have to ask myself if that is best for Trouba's development? with Bogo, Buff, Postma, and Reds we have depth and that creates options. unless Jacob is clearly better than Reds and Postma (AHL all stars) then I am not sure it would kill him or the jets to have Trouba play big minutes in St John's for a "stint". It is great to have this luxury at our disposal.....honestly its what good organizations have.

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09-08-2013, 08:00 PM
  #33
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My guess is by the end of the season both Scheifele and Trouba will have established themselves as regulars and this discussion will move on to Lowry and others. Rookies have to crack the team at some point and there are openings for both of them. With the injury history of our defense over the last couple of years all Trouba needs to do to be a regular is stay healthy.

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09-08-2013, 08:14 PM
  #34
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If Schiefele doesn't stick, and doesn't perform as an adequate 2C or good 3C, we are going to be in trouble.

Whether Trouba sticks or doesn't, I don't think will impact us too much.

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09-08-2013, 08:23 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
I don't think it is quite that simple, as development curves and ELC have to be taken into account.
With Trouba, as with Sheif in the OHL last year, he may benefit from the AHL, playing big minutes in every situation, while fine tuning his weaknesses. ( And he clearly has weaknesses) Even if he could theoretically help the team this year as a #6, he might help the team more over the long term if he is allowed to properly finish his pre-NHL development. That may take 20, 40 or 80 games in St Johns. We'll have to see what he does in the pre-season and first 10 NHL games.
As for ELC, I am firmly of the belief that in a capped environment, pre-maturely burning the first year of a potentially great player's contract is not in the best long-term interests of the team. The businessmen on the board may wish to elaborate.
It may have been overly simplified but my point being was for Trouba to be there he has to beat both Redmond and Postma. If he is able to that for the start of the year he should be NHL ready.

Teams are dynamic and opportunities change consistently with streaks, coaching and injuries. If he makes it as a 6 my thought process was that he wouldn't be staying a six all season through.

However, if I were a gambling man, I would place a bet on:
*Scheifele sticking on the squad, bouncing up and down between 2nd and 3rd line and splitting 2nd PP unit time with Jokinen.
*Trouba not sticking at first but likely coming back up later and earning his spot.

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09-08-2013, 08:24 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCjetsfan View Post
If Schiefele doesn't stick, and doesn't perform as an adequate 2C or good 3C, we are going to be in trouble.

Whether Trouba sticks or doesn't, I don't think will impact us too much.
If Scheifele isn't a good 3C than he is one step behind Burmistrov's developmental curve. That would not be a good sign, although not damning.

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09-08-2013, 08:24 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCjetsfan View Post
If Schiefele doesn't stick, and doesn't perform as an adequate 2C or good 3C, we are going to be in trouble.

Whether Trouba sticks or doesn't, I don't think will impact us too much.
Yeah, being without a proper 2nd line C, that would be a new one...

But yeah, I think you have a point. As much as I want to see Trouba come in and dominate, our D isn't our problem. Unless they all miss time with injuries. Again.

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09-08-2013, 08:33 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
As for ELC, I am firmly of the belief that in a capped environment, pre-maturely burning the first year of a potentially great player's contract is not in the best long-term interests of the team. The businessmen on the board may wish to elaborate.
Huhhh??? I was under the impression that a player had to be sent back down to his junior team (e.g. Scheifele last 2 years) in order to "slide" the ELC. If he's playing in the AHL (or even ECHL for that matter) his contract is being "burned" a year at at a time. It only "slides" if he goes back to his junior team. BTW, there is no "9-game-limit" before being sent down to the AHL/ECHL.

The only difference is that a 2-way contract (which is totally orthogonal to whether it's ELC or not), pays more when the player is up with the big club. If a team is in cap-hell, they might be worried about that, but the Jets are OK cap wise, and TNSE is classy, not like "dollar-Bill Wirtz".

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09-08-2013, 08:56 PM
  #39
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I think they'll both get a few tryout games (however many Scheifele has left anyways) and be sent to the AHL For a bit. But they'll be back.

I think there are a lot of teams that would throw them into the NHL right away, but the Jets will probably find a few areas of opportunity for them to work on in the AHL and see how they respond to that. That said, I believe by next year they'll be fixtures on the team. Maybe even later in the season.

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09-08-2013, 09:19 PM
  #40
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If i'm not mistaken there are no more "tryout" games. Both player is eligible for AHL so neither needs to be returned to junior by 10 games before burning a contract year

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09-08-2013, 09:59 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by KCjetsfan View Post
If Schiefele doesn't stick, and doesn't perform as an adequate 2C or good 3C, we are going to be in trouble.

Whether Trouba sticks or doesn't, I don't think will impact us too much.
I think if he can't even be a good #2C, we could be in trouble. Setoguchi needs somone to give him the puck, as does Kane. If Scheif can't deliver, we could be in trouble. Look at Setoguchi's highlight reel from last year. Almost every single goal was from a great setup by Cullen.

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09-08-2013, 10:07 PM
  #42
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I think Scheif will work out nicely on our second line. I think he'll have ups and downs but I think he's just about ready.

Trouba may need another year, though I hope not.
I'd rather him get top 2 minutes on the Rock than playing as a 6 for the Jets.

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09-08-2013, 10:13 PM
  #43
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I think if he can't even be a good #2C, we could be in trouble. Setoguchi needs somone to give him the puck, as does Kane. If Scheif can't deliver, we could be in trouble. Look at Setoguchi's highlight reel from last year. Almost every single goal was from a great setup by Cullen.
I believe Scheif can - and will, deliver.

I've also got a feeling that Joker will be a man on a mission this year and that he will surprise allot of people with a huge improvement in his game...

Should be a fun year to watch our team

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09-08-2013, 10:20 PM
  #44
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I believe Scheif can - and will, deliver.

I've also got a feeling that Joker will be a man on a mission this year and that he will surprise allot of people with a huge improvement in his game...

Should be a fun year to watch our team
That's what I'm hoping. Even if Scheif is absolutely terrible this year as a 2nd line centre, that will be about on par with our second line centre last year, so we wont' be any worse lol. Scheif with a good year, Setoguchi with a good year, Jokinen bouncing back, hopefully good chemistry with Frolik, Trouba possibly coming up some time this year, it's going to be a pretty exciting year. Can't wait.

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09-08-2013, 10:26 PM
  #45
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Huhhh??? I was under the impression that a player had to be sent back down to his junior team (e.g. Scheifele last 2 years) in order to "slide" the ELC. If he's playing in the AHL (or even ECHL for that matter) his contract is being "burned" a year at at a time. It only "slides" if he goes back to his junior team. BTW, there is no "9-game-limit" before being sent down to the AHL/ECHL.

The only difference is that a 2-way contract (which is totally orthogonal to whether it's ELC or not), pays more when the player is up with the big club. If a team is in cap-hell, they might be worried about that, but the Jets are OK cap wise, and TNSE is classy, not like "dollar-Bill Wirtz".
From CapGeek:

If a player aged 18 or 19 signs an entry-level contract with a club (with his age calculated on Sept. 15 of the year he signed the contract) but does not play in at least 10 NHL games, the contract will "slide" or be extended one year. The extension does not apply if the player turns 20 between Sept. 16 and Dec. 31 in the year he signed the contract.

Do you have a source that suggests otherwise?

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09-08-2013, 10:41 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
From CapGeek:

If a player aged 18 or 19 signs an entry-level contract with a club (with his age calculated on Sept. 15 of the year he signed the contract) but does not play in at least 10 NHL games, the contract will "slide" or be extended one year. The extension does not apply if the player turns 20 between Sept. 16 and Dec. 31 in the year he signed the contract.

Do you have a source that suggests otherwise?
I believe you are correct, players like Zemgus Girgensons and Hampus Lindholm played in the ahl last season, are on ELCs and their contracts slid for this year.

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09-08-2013, 10:52 PM
  #47
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Huh???

Why would he have to be the best defenseman? If he was the 4th best are you saying that wouldn't be good enough to stick with the big club? If so, I disagree with your conclusion.

I guess we will just have to wait and see Jet. If I was a betting man I'd put my money on #3 staying with the Jets this year.
Look at the contracts. The answer lies there.

Enstrom Byfuglien
Bogosian Clitsome
Pardy Stuart
Postma

These are all players that will have to go through waivers. Unless a trade is made, what do you do with Trouba?

I am not saying that JT is not able to play in the NHL, we don't know that. I am saying that the Jets are not ones to make foolhardy decisions. They signed Pardy for a reason. Unless they plan on trading a defenseman, I do not believe that being in the NHL is in the cards for Trouba this year.

Again, if he is lights out the entire TC, pre season AND first 9 games he is allowed before he burns his first year of RFA, he is going to be playing on the Rock this year. Might not be what people want to hear, but it's the way it is.

I think the org. signing Pardy was 'odd' but telling. I don't think they want to pressure or rush Trouba. I think they want him to get lots of pro time down on what should be a very good Ice Caps team.

However, you are right, we will see what happens.

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09-08-2013, 11:43 PM
  #48
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I understand all the arguments for having Trouba play in STJ this season, but what I see in his play gives me an inkling that we might be pleasantly surprised and he may kick the Jets' door down. It's a nice issue for the Jets to deal with.

Scheifele looks to me like he's ready to play. He gets knocked down a bit more than you might expect, but it doesn't really hamper his effectiveness. He seems quite good defensively, which tells me that he can probably play 2C on this team, and at worst 3C. I think he might already be good enough for the 2nd PP too. The biggest weakness that I've observed is in the face-off circle. I'm not sure how they'll deal with that, but it will be a liability in the near term.

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Old
09-09-2013, 12:04 AM
  #49
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there is no way scheif plays anywhere other than Winnipeg this year....ready or not its his time....if he really craps the bed by mid-season he may get sent down but he would really have to be bad....they have set up this entire roster for him at this point.

i also think it would take an extreme set of circumstances for trouba to be sent down to start the season, but he is more likely than mark....

my question is how long until we see guys like lowry get a sniff?...this season at some point?...he and petan are the guys I'm excited about most (behind trouba)...petan is obviously a bit away if only for his size.

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09-09-2013, 01:31 AM
  #50
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was at the game vs the oilers, Schief looks 1000x better then he did before. They were using him a more defensive role and on the PK, so i think they wanted to see how he did in that type of role. But seeing him in person is alot different then watching him on tv. He is way stronger on his skates, fast and not akward anymore. Cant wait to see what he does in trainingcamp an pre season.

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