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Mark Scheifele and Jacob Trouba

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Old
09-09-2013, 01:44 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by dgorsk View Post
was at the game vs the oilers, Schief looks 1000x better then he did before. They were using him a more defensive role and on the PK, so i think they wanted to see how he did in that type of role. But seeing him in person is alot different then watching him on tv. He is way stronger on his skates, fast and not akward anymore. Cant wait to see what he does in trainingcamp an pre season.
Anyone else jump out to you?
Obviously you got a better idea being live than we could get.

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09-09-2013, 01:56 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Jet View Post
Look at the contracts. The answer lies there.

Enstrom Byfuglien
Bogosian Clitsome
Pardy Stuart
Postma

These are all players that will have to go through waivers. Unless a trade is made, what do you do with Trouba?

I am not saying that JT is not able to play in the NHL, we don't know that. I am saying that the Jets are not ones to make foolhardy decisions. They signed Pardy for a reason. Unless they plan on trading a defenseman, I do not believe that being in the NHL is in the cards for Trouba this year.

Again, if he is lights out the entire TC, pre season AND first 9 games he is allowed before he burns his first year of RFA, he is going to be playing on the Rock this year. Might not be what people want to hear, but it's the way it is.

I think the org. signing Pardy was 'odd' but telling. I don't think they want to pressure or rush Trouba. I think they want him to get lots of pro time down on what should be a very good Ice Caps team.

However, you are right, we will see what happens.
I definitely think that Trouba will spend a decent amount of time on the Rock this year. I have no doubt that Trouba will get some time with the main club this year. He will likely be one of the first call ups, and we know our D line will see some rotation due to injury. I only hope he handles the "demotion" with the same vigor and intensity that Scheifele did this year.

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09-09-2013, 01:58 AM
  #53
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Actually Cisse was amazing to watch. didnt know who he was before this game but he was flying around and laying ppl out like crazy. I dont think trouba will stick, he looks smaller then schief's now and looks like he could use some more development. Morrisey was insanely fast and good with the puck, but because he is small he got tossed around abit. Petan looked good but is way way too small. lowry needs another year to grow into his frame same with blunquiist(something like that) both are very tall but akward looking.

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09-09-2013, 02:01 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by dgorsk View Post
Actually Cisse was amazing to watch. didnt know who he was before this game but he was flying around and laying ppl out like crazy. I dont think trouba will stick, he looks smaller then schief's now and looks like he could use some more development. Morrisey was insanely fast and good with the puck, but because he is small he got tossed around abit. Petan looked good but is way way too small. lowry needs another year to grow into his frame same with blunquiist(something like that) both are very tall but akward looking.
Yasin Cisse is a bit of a concern for me. He left his NCAA team to go back to the QMJHL, likely due to some problems with is usage on the team. He didn't exactly tear it up while there, though. He is skilled, but he needs to reclaim his game that he had.

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09-09-2013, 03:19 AM
  #55
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Couriouser and curiouser. My understanding is that an ELC can only slide 2 years...

Quote:
9.1.d.(i)
In the event that an 18 year old or 19 year old Player signs an SPC with a
Club but does not play at least ten (10) NHL Games in the first season
under that SPC, the term of his SPC and his number of years in the Entry
Level System shall be extended for a period of one (1) year, except that
this automatic extension will not apply to a Player who is 19 according to
Section 9.2 by virtue of turning 20 between September 16 and December
31 in the year in which he first signs an SPC. Unless a Player and Club
expressly agree to the contrary, in the event a Player's SPC is extended an
additional year in accordance with this subsection, all terms of the SPC,
with the exception of Signing Bonuses, but including Paragraph 1 Salary,
games played bonuses and Exhibit 5 bonuses, shall be extended; provided,
however, that the Player's Paragraph 1 Salary shall be extended in all
circumstances.

9.1.d.(ii)
In the event that a Player signs his first SPC at age 18 and has had his SPC
extended pursuant to Subsection (i), and such Player does not play at least
ten (10) NHL Games in the second season under that SPC, then the term
of his SPC and his number of years in the Entry Level System shall be
extended for one (1) additional year. Unless a Player and Club expressly
agree to the contrary, in the event a Player's SPC is extended an additional
year in accordance with this Subsection, all terms of the SPC, with the
exception of Signing Bonuses, but including Paragraph 1 Salary, games
played bonuses and Exhibit 5 bonuses, shall be extended; provided,
however, that the Player's Paragraph 1 Salary shall be extended in all
circumstances.
My reading of that text is...
  • if the player is 18 on Sep 15 of the calendar year he signs his ELC, he can be slid twice
  • if the player is 19 on Sep 15 of the calendar year he signs his ELC BUT DOES NOT TURN 20 BEFORE THE FOLLOWING JAN 1st, he can be slid once
Scheifele was 18 on Sep 15 of 2011 (the year he signed his ELC). He's been slid twice, and that's it.

Trouba was 18 on Sep 15, 2012 (the year he signed his ELC), and he slid last season, so he can slide this season. I'll admit to being wrong about sliding in the AHL. But Scheifele has already slid twice, and can't slide any more. Even if he plays zero NHL games this season, he will be burning year 1 of his ELC.

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09-09-2013, 06:55 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet View Post
Look at the contracts. The answer lies there.

Enstrom Byfuglien
Bogosian Clitsome
Pardy Stuart
Postma

These are all players that will have to go through waivers. Unless a trade is made, what do you do with Trouba?

I am not saying that JT is not able to play in the NHL, we don't know that. I am saying that the Jets are not ones to make foolhardy decisions. They signed Pardy for a reason. Unless they plan on trading a defenseman, I do not believe that being in the NHL is in the cards for Trouba this year.

Again, if he is lights out the entire TC, pre season AND first 9 games he is allowed before he burns his first year of RFA, he is going to be playing on the Rock this year. Might not be what people want to hear, but it's the way it is.

I think the org. signing Pardy was 'odd' but telling. I don't think they want to pressure or rush Trouba. I think they want him to get lots of pro time down on what should be a very good Ice Caps team.

However, you are right, we will see what happens.
My take on the Pardy signing is that he is a dirt cheap vetran 7-8 guy who can spend weeks in the pressbox and then step in on a moment's notice when needed.

I tend to agree with you on Trouba. I see him going back and forth a bit this first season. The last place you want him is in the pressbox. But as I've said before, I think his potential is such that he will have established himself as a regular by season's end. Next year he will be an everyday guy and the Jets will have to make some longer term decisions with their defense.

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Old
09-09-2013, 08:45 AM
  #57
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If the Jets signed Pardy just so that they could slide Trouba's ELC for a year, then shame on them. If Trouba is ready for a top-6 role, then he should play with the Jets. Messing around with players and their assignments and development curve just for contractual considerations is a bad idea.

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Old
09-09-2013, 08:46 AM
  #58
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Re: Sheifele's balance. He can't fall too much more often than Wheeler and we all love him (including me).

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09-09-2013, 08:54 AM
  #59
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If Trouba shows well, he'll be here, in my opinion, contracts or not. I do not see management sending a deserving player down if he has earned his ticket. That goes against the grain of logic to a team that hasn't proven to be very good to begin with, but also everything we've ever heard for this Jets management team. I know it can happen when contract/roster space gets tight, but we have wiggle room and options as far as I can see. If we were *really* in a logjam with contracts under the 23 man roster limit, then I could perhaps see him being sent down but only for a short time until Chevy moves somebody. But I still doubt it. If Trouba is better than any of Postma, Stuart, Redmond, Clitsome... he's going to be in the NHL.


In terms of the "23 man roster limit"... all of these guys are the most likely candidates, with at least 2 being cut.
Quote:
Forwards - Ladd, Little, Wheeler, Kane, Jokinen, Setoguchi, Scheifele, Frolik, Halischuk, Slater, Wright, Tangradi, Peluso, Thorburn.

Defenceman - Bogosian, Enstrom, Byfuglien, Clitsome, Postma, Redmond, Stuart, Trouba, Pardy.

Goaltenders - Pavelec, Montoya.
There are 25 players here as the most likely NHL candidates (some obviously will 100% be here). There are easily options here to accommodate Trouba if his play warrants it, even if that means Postma being in the pressbox as a healthy scratch.

Here are some scenarios I see if Trouba shows well and looks ready for a top 4-6 role.

Adam Pardy - is an AHL'er, who will perhaps be called up in a Meech role if necessary if we endure a bunch of injuries. I do not see him as a roadblock, not for a second.

Zach Redmond - Can go to the AHL without clearing waivers. And, if you ask me, Redmond may start in the AHL given how much time he's missed in the last year. Given his lack of playing the last year with his injury, if Redmond is not in the top 6 playing to start the year, he'll be in the AHL in my opinion. I don't see much of an option here as a 7-8 guy given he needs to get playing time under his belt. It's top 6 or AHL for Redmond at least until he gets a good amount of games under his belt.

Paul Postma - He'll be in the NHL, and we're not going to expose him to waivers. If push really comes to shove this year, I could see Postma (or someone else) dealt to make room for Trouba if he earns it. With saying that, I could easily see Trouba outplaying Postma in all facets and simply being better, thus a must to keep ahead of Paul Postma.

Chris Thorburn - If getting down to the 23 man roster (and keeping Trouba and even sitting Postma) means waiving Thorburn and potentially sending him to the AHL or losing him on waivers, I do believe it is a route we may (and likely will) take this season. With Peluso in the mix, Chevy has his own self-brought-in tough guy who can play the 4th line/13th forward. Thorburn's days are numbered. There is absolutely no need to have both Peluso and Thorburn on the roster taking up the exact same role and roster space. When push comes to shove, Peluso has the spot as far as I am concerned over Thorburn.

Matt Halischuk - I like Halischuk, and I think he stands a great chance at finding a role here as the 3rd line LW. He or Tangradi if he shows some more offensive touch. But, Halischuk too could find himself in the AHL, it's possible. He would have to clear waivers, but we did also sign him to a two-way deal for this reason as he is not a sure thing, so he is not a given to be on the NHL roster or not sent down.

I just don't at all see the contract road block here that will prevent Trouba from being here if he is deserving of being here. If his play warrants being in the NHL, he'll be here as far as I am concerned. There are ways here we can shuffle the deck to easily fit him in. These things will work themselves out but I do not believe for a second if Trouba shows well that he will be sent to the AHL because of "contracts" and such. Not impossible, but I am highly doubting it.

I could see the 23 man roster as the following, with an exception or two with Redmond perhaps in the AHL and Thorburn still here, most likely to start the season.

Ladd - Little - Wheeler
Kane - Schiefele - Setoguchi
Halischuk - Jokinen - Frolik
Wright - Slater - Tangradi/Peluso

Enstrom - Byfuglien
Clitsome - Bogosian
Stuart - Trouba/Postma/Redmond

*battle for Clitsome's spot easily open for the taking.

Pavelec
Montoya




It has to be remembered, this team has not been very good. We've got more "quantity" than we do "quality". It will not be very hard for Jacob Trouba to earn a role here if his play warrants it. I am a firm believer it will not be "contracts" that prevent Jacob Trouba from playing in the NHL this year, it will be his play and whether he warrants an NHL roster spot, or not.


Last edited by Guerzy: 09-09-2013 at 09:17 AM.
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Old
09-09-2013, 09:00 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
...
This is exactly the way I see it, too. Any other decision would be a surprise, IMO.

Since last year I'm telling that Postma's and Thorburn's days are numbered with this Franchise. Postma, because we just have the option and the need to deal one out of Redmond/Postma and will probably deal Postma, because of Trouba and contracts. And Thorburn because we picked up a younger, meaner version of him (Peluso). There is pretty much no need or space for those two on the roster.

I think we move Postma and waive Thorburn (won't get picked up).

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09-09-2013, 09:27 AM
  #61
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Redmond or Trouba will start on the Rock this year baring Def injuries.....Postma is all but guaranteed to make it as our 6th or 7 th d man.

My reason is .....
1) Postma has to clear waivers the other two do not,
2) Postma would not clear waivers.
3) Postma has good trade value, but trading Postma b4 (clear day) the season starts will dimminish his return. All Teams are high on their own prospects and are concerned with their own 23 man roster and which of their own assets they are going to expose to waivers.
4) Postma is just getting ready to take the next step. If he does, his trade value will rise dramatically. He is a great young asset on a cheap two year deal. If he can take the next step and round out his game, we could trade him b4 the trade deadline or in the the offseason.

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09-09-2013, 09:32 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Chuck View Post
Re: Sheifele's balance. He can't fall too much more often than Wheeler and we all love him (including me).
Ladd tumbles a lot too.

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09-09-2013, 09:46 AM
  #63
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After watching the young stars tournament, what do you guys think of Scheifele and Trouba? Will they make the Jets team or is it too early to tell? Are they ready for the NHL or you have not seen a lot yet?
It is too early to determine whether or not either Scheifele or Trouba are ready for a full season in the NHL; that will be determined by their play against the men and not by a near-meaningless prospects tournament. This tourney is more for the lower level guys to account for themselves. The upper echelon prospects like Scheif and Trouba have conversely already essentially been penciled into preseason NHL games - regardless of their play in Penticton.

Many players play to the level of their competition. Trouba for example was able to excel at the World Hockey Championships this past spring (playing against mostly NHL players) despite having played just one year in college. I saw a good interview with Todd Nelson (coach of the AHL OKC Barons) on the Oilers website; he mentioned that Henrik Zetterberg for example was HORRIBLE in his prospect outing yet excelled days later when he played against the men.

Too early yet.

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09-09-2013, 09:47 AM
  #64
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I see the club starting Scheifele at 3C, nothing higher.

Jokinen will have a burst out season, he has been training his ass off in the off season and was very disappointed with his performance.

Trouba may crack the roster as 5D if he can prove he's better than Clitsome, I think he is but there is some doubt.

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09-09-2013, 09:57 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
It is too early to determine whether or not either Scheifele or Trouba are ready for a full season in the NHL; that will be determined by their play against the men and not by a near-meaningless prospects tournament. This tourney is more for the lower level guys to account for themselves. The upper echelon prospects like Scheif and Trouba have conversely already essentially been penciled into preseason NHL games - regardless of their play in Penticton.

Many players play to the level of their competition. Trouba for example was able to excel at the World Hockey Championships this past spring (playing against mostly NHL players) despite having played just one year in college. I saw a good interview with Todd Nelson (coach of the AHL OKC Barons) on the Oilers website; he mentioned that Henrik Zetterberg for example was HORRIBLE in his prospect outing yet excelled days later when he played against the men.

Too early yet.
Interesting points. I've also heard guys say it's "easier" playing in the NHL. Passes are harder, more accurate, guys know where to be, what to do, etc. Would certainly make sense for a guy like Zetterberg.

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09-09-2013, 10:02 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
It is too early to determine whether or not either Scheifele or Trouba are ready for a full season in the NHL; that will be determined by their play against the men and not by a near-meaningless prospects tournament. This tourney is more for the lower level guys to account for themselves. The upper echelon prospects like Scheif and Trouba have conversely already essentially been penciled into preseason NHL games - regardless of their play in Penticton.

Many players play to the level of their competition. Trouba for example was able to excel at the World Hockey Championships this past spring (playing against mostly NHL players) despite having played just one year in college. I saw a good interview with Todd Nelson (coach of the AHL OKC Barons) on the Oilers website; he mentioned that Henrik Zetterberg for example was HORRIBLE in his prospect outing yet excelled days later when he played against the men.

Too early yet.
Pretty much.
As you say, the high end guys have guaranteed spots in camp and will play a fair amount of preseason action.

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09-09-2013, 10:03 AM
  #67
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Interesting points. I've also heard guys say it's "easier" playing in the NHL. Passes are harder, more accurate, guys know where to be, what to do, etc. Would certainly make sense for a guy like Zetterberg.
What? Do you mean to say that Scheifele might look a bit better playing with Kane than Sutter?

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09-09-2013, 10:10 AM
  #68
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Interesting points.
Nelson brought up Zetterberg when trying to excuse Darnell Nurse's terrible first game in the tournament.

Quote:
I've also heard guys say it's "easier" playing in the NHL. Passes are harder, more accurate, guys know where to be, what to do, etc. Would certainly make sense for a guy like Zetterberg.
True. By extension that possibly could also apply to Scheifele for example. It is easier to look better when dumping the puck to 30 goal scorers in the NHL than it is when forced to dish the puck to guys like Luke Sutter and Blomqvist. For all of our excitement about Blomqvist here, he was actually a fairly pedestrian scorer in the WHL last year and I think Scheif may have helped Blomqvist's and Sutter's game recently more than they have helped his own game.

I look forward to seeing how Scheifele will look when paired with more comparable talents.

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09-09-2013, 10:20 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Nelson brought up Zetterberg when trying to excuse Darnell Nurse's terrible first game in the tournament.

True. By extension that possibly could also apply to Scheifele for example. It is easier to look better when dumping the puck to 30 goal scorers in the NHL than it is when forced to dish the puck to guys like Luke Sutter and Blomqvist. For all of our excitement about Blomqvist here, he was actually a fairly pedestrian scorer in the WHL last year and I think Scheif may have helped Blomqvist's and Sutter's game recently more than they have helped his own game.

I look forward to seeing how Scheifele will look when paired with more comparable talents.
Agree, Gump. It's going to be exciting to see how/if Scheifele meshes with Kane, given their games appear to be a fit from the outside looking in.

What a 1-2 punch in terms of lines 1 & 2 that could give us.

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09-09-2013, 10:30 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Nelson brought up Zetterberg when trying to excuse Darnell Nurse's terrible first game in the tournament.

True. By extension that possibly could also apply to Scheifele for example. It is easier to look better when dumping the puck to 30 goal scorers in the NHL than it is when forced to dish the puck to guys like Luke Sutter and Blomqvist. For all of our excitement about Blomqvist here, he was actually a fairly pedestrian scorer in the WHL last year and I think Scheif may have helped Blomqvist's and Sutter's game recently more than they have helped his own game.

I look forward to seeing how Scheifele will look when paired with more comparable talents.
Just finished listening to Beyak on the Big show (TSN radio) and he was recapping the tournament so far. He thinks Mark is putting allot of pressure on himself and just needs to relax....he feels Mark is going to be fine at the main camp and the way he ended in the OHL playoffs last year (leading scorer by 9 points) indicates that he is clearly ready for the next level.

Dennis also reiterated what we have heard about Petan. That the Jets were "shocked" that he was still around in the 2nd round. they have said he has "come as advertised" so far in both the rookie camp and tournament and they are looking forward to seeing how he does against NHL players at the main camp. Richardson pressed Dennis on Petan's size and said "how can you tell if he will be too small" and Dennis had a pretty good answer. he said its a new NHL now and small guys can make it but what generally holds back some small guys is heart.....they have all the talent to dominate in juniors but don't have the heart (grit and compete level) to dig when the going gets tough against men. Dennis said that is what is exciting about Nic because Dennis felt Nic definatly has the "heart" and he has "allot of jam".


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09-09-2013, 10:32 AM
  #71
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What? Do you mean to say that Scheifele might look a bit better playing with Kane than Sutter?


It's a funny thing how it can work for or against/for guys. Guys that aren't ready or up to par yet can look miserably out of place. Guys like Scheifele and Trouba may/could/should be the opposite, looking better, as things comes more natural and easy given their talents.

I can't wait until preseason in another week.

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09-09-2013, 10:33 AM
  #72
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That actually makes complete sense. If you've ever played online gaming you know what he's talking about.

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09-09-2013, 10:52 AM
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What? Do you mean to say that Scheifele might look a bit better playing with Kane than Sutter?
By all accounts we have a Sutter who probably won't ever be playing in the NHL.

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09-09-2013, 11:01 AM
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By all accounts we have a Sutter who probably won't ever be playing in the NHL.
Was the most likely outcome pre-draft.

Hopefully he can somehow beat the odds.

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09-09-2013, 11:29 AM
  #75
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It's a funny thing how it can work for or against/for guys. Guys that aren't ready or up to par yet can look miserably out of place. Guys like Scheifele and Trouba may/could/should be the opposite, looking better, as things comes more natural and easy given their talents.

I can't wait until preseason in another week.
I always remember when I played tennis a lot. When I played with lesser skilled players, it was hard to time the ball, and get into the rhythm of the game. If I played with someone better than I was, my game was so much better. Sometimes the quality of the opposition determines your individual quality.

BTW, this is exactly the same reason why I hope Mark gets a chance to prove himself on the second line with quality linemates instead of being thrust into a grinder role.

Howard Chuck is offline   Reply With Quote
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