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YST G3 | Oilers vs. Canucks | 3:00PM | Streamed

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Old
09-09-2013, 11:42 AM
  #251
Up the Irons
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Originally Posted by Pennertration View Post
Are you guys seriously evaluating players and prospect depth based on this tourney? This is one of many "evaluation" stations in a player's career and really, it's a relatively minor one. Essentially this gives the team a look at these guys so they can give them marching orders on areas to improve during the actual season, which matters way more than a summer exhibition tournament.

Can't wait to hear this tourney referenced later in the season as old grudges are dredged up.

Didn't Lander dominate this thing a couple years ago - now he's a whipping boy.
maybe it doesn't matter in the big picture, but you have to admit it would better if our rookies didn't get schooled by the rookies of 2 divisional teams and another conference rival. as of today, Jets/Flames/Nucks rookies look much better than ours. in order for that to change, ours must improve more than theirs.

you can't refute that they didn't look very good, and that it isn't disappointing.

take away from this? Nurse is at least 5 years away from being a 20+ minute eating top 4 D-horse (possibly 7 and don't be surprised if he is traded before then).

Klefa is probably a year away. Marincin is ahead of him.

I am no more confident in any of our forward prospects. still a crap shoot if Ewanyk, Kaira, et al can ever be players.

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09-09-2013, 11:48 AM
  #252
The Nuge
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Originally Posted by Dangerdanger View Post
I was hoping for more from Houck (didn't notice him at all), Kessy (not a ton of skill, weak shot), Ewanyk (seemed to stop skating and having to start again in the neutral zone) and Schaber (showed a couple flashes but overall pretty ineffective.
It's kind of hard for Houck to be noticeable from the press box. He missed the last game and a half injured

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09-09-2013, 11:51 AM
  #253
CupofOil
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Originally Posted by RustE View Post
maybe it doesn't matter in the big picture, but you have to admit it would better if our rookies didn't get schooled by the rookies of 2 divisional teams and another conference rival. as of today, Jets/Flames/Nucks rookies look much better than ours. in order for that to change, ours must improve more than theirs.

you can't refute that they didn't look very good, and that it isn't disappointing.

take away from this? Nurse is at least 5 years away from being a 20+ minute eating top 4 D-horse (possibly 7 and don't be surprised if he is traded before then).

Klefa is probably a year away. Marincin is ahead of him.

I am no more confident in any of our forward prospects. still a crap shoot if Ewanyk, Kaira, et al can ever be players.
These things were all true prior to this exhibition tournament. The point some are trying to make is that this tournament has no bearing on the NHL future of these kids whatsoever.
What it did was get these kids into game shape after a long offseason, nothing more.
IMO, Yakupov looked very subpar in a bunch of those exhibition tournaments and in the much more meaningful WJC tournament yet he turned out fine. I know that #1 picks are set to a different standard but i think you get the point.

It was pretty well known pre-tourney (from anybody who was being realistic) that Klefbom wouldn't be ready for NHL action right away after a full calendar year of not playing competitive hockey coming off of an injury and having never played a season on North American ice and Nurse is a project who was an upside pick moreso than a safe pick. 5 years might be a bit of a stretch but at the very least, it should be 3 years until Nurse is ready for full time NHL action and that's just fine, no need to rush him.
The forwards are all longshots. Any non-1st round pick is a longshot so this tournament didn't change that fact.

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Old
09-09-2013, 04:38 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
It's kind of hard for Houck to be noticeable from the press box. He missed the last game and a half injured
Well aware of that, but in the game and a half that he did play he really didn't stand out to me in any way.

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09-09-2013, 08:54 PM
  #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
These things were all true prior to this exhibition tournament. The point some are trying to make is that this tournament has no bearing on the NHL future of these kids whatsoever.
What it did was get these kids into game shape after a long offseason, nothing more.
IMO, Yakupov looked very subpar in a bunch of those exhibition tournaments and in the much more meaningful WJC tournament yet he turned out fine. I know that #1 picks are set to a different standard but i think you get the point.

It was pretty well known pre-tourney (from anybody who was being realistic) that Klefbom wouldn't be ready for NHL action right away after a full calendar year of not playing competitive hockey coming off of an injury and having never played a season on North American ice and Nurse is a project who was an upside pick moreso than a safe pick. 5 years might be a bit of a stretch but at the very least, it should be 3 years until Nurse is ready for full time NHL action and that's just fine, no need to rush him.
The forwards are all longshots. Any non-1st round pick is a longshot so this tournament didn't change that fact.
I know its a short sample period, but Nurse is ahead of Klefbom from what I saw in everything but size.

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Old
09-09-2013, 11:06 PM
  #256
nexttothemoon
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Originally Posted by RustE View Post
maybe it doesn't matter in the big picture, but you have to admit it would better if our rookies didn't get schooled by the rookies of 2 divisional teams and another conference rival. as of today, Jets/Flames/Nucks rookies look much better than ours. in order for that to change, ours must improve more than theirs.

you can't refute that they didn't look very good, and that it isn't disappointing.

take away from this? Nurse is at least 5 years away from being a 20+ minute eating top 4 D-horse (possibly 7 and don't be surprised if he is traded before then).

Klefa is probably a year away. Marincin is ahead of him.

I am no more confident in any of our forward prospects. still a crap shoot if Ewanyk, Kaira, et al can ever be players.
Holy crap... I'm probably THE biggest proponent on the boards here (or one of the biggest anyway) that the Oilers should have taken Nichushkin over Nurse... Nichushkin will be an absolute beast imo in 1-2 years... 3 at the most.

Saying that though.. Nurse is a solid prospect and to say he won't be an NHLer for a minimum 5 years and possibly even 7... I think that stretches it too far.

That's basically saying he won't be a valuable contributor until age 23-25. I really don't know how anyone can make that evaluation accurately at this point. He's certainly raw, he's certainly a longer term project and it will take time but honestly he could "get it" and really start to fill out and play at a high level... competent enough for the NHL much sooner than 5-7 years.

As for the rest of the prospects... it will obviously take more than a couple games to get a feel for where they are headed going forward.

There was a lot of non-Oilers prospects in the game as well.. players that will never even sign a contract with the Oilers. It was basically a muesli mix of players from everywhere that generally had never seen each other before in many cases... never mind play with each other.

Sure it would have been nice if the prospects would have won a game and/or looked more respectable in losing but there have been many, many stretches where the "real" Oilers look like crap for 3 games (and sometimes a LOT longer as well )... and we know they aren't all crap on that team and not every player on the club is a write-off.

It could simply come down to players not having any chemistry, being rusty because of not having played in many weeks/months, being nervous and generally yes being less talented as an overall team.... but that's not to say that every prospect is complete crap and will never amount to anything.

It's absurd to think all is doomed based on any 3 game stretch with essentially no coaching systems other than... "get out there and skate and let's see what you can do" as that's essentially what MacT said... there wasn't a big emphasis placed on getting systems in place for the tourney... it was basically a series of pseudo-shinnies thrown together for fun just to see what type of players are in the Oilers system and a few other players they wanted to look at that they hadn't drafted/signed or even seen that often.

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Old
09-10-2013, 12:00 AM
  #257
raab
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Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
Holy crap... I'm probably THE biggest proponent on the boards here (or one of the biggest anyway) that the Oilers should have taken Nichushkin over Nurse... Nichushkin will be an absolute beast imo in 1-2 years... 3 at the most.

Saying that though.. Nurse is a solid prospect and to say he won't be an NHLer for a minimum 5 years and possibly even 7... I think that stretches it too far.

That's basically saying he won't be a valuable contributor until age 23-25. I really don't know how anyone can make that evaluation accurately at this point. He's certainly raw, he's certainly a longer term project and it will take time but honestly he could "get it" and really start to fill out and play at a high level... competent enough for the NHL much sooner than 5-7 years.

As for the rest of the prospects... it will obviously take more than a couple games to get a feel for where they are headed going forward.

There was a lot of non-Oilers prospects in the game as well.. players that will never even sign a contract with the Oilers. It was basically a muesli mix of players from everywhere that generally had never seen each other before in many cases... never mind play with each other.

Sure it would have been nice if the prospects would have won a game and/or looked more respectable in losing but there have been many, many stretches where the "real" Oilers look like crap for 3 games (and sometimes a LOT longer as well )... and we know they aren't all crap on that team and not every player on the club is a write-off.

It could simply come down to players not having any chemistry, being rusty because of not having played in many weeks/months, being nervous and generally yes being less talented as an overall team.... but that's not to say that every prospect is complete crap and will never amount to anything.

It's absurd to think all is doomed based on any 3 game stretch with essentially no coaching systems other than... "get out there and skate and let's see what you can do" as that's essentially what MacT said... there wasn't a big emphasis placed on getting systems in place for the tourney... it was basically a series of pseudo-shinnies thrown together for fun just to see what type of players are in the Oilers system and a few other players they wanted to look at that they hadn't drafted/signed or even seen that often.
He said Nurse as a 20+min dman eating lots of top 4 minutes. I don't think it's unrealistic for him to not be there for 5-7 years considering how long most dmen take to develop. It's not like we're talking about Doughty or Pietrangelo here, Nurse doesn't play that type of game. I think he probably goes back to junior this year and next then possibly sticks on the team as a bottom pairing d man 2 years from now and works his way up somewhat slowly kind of like what we did with Smid.

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Old
09-10-2013, 04:42 AM
  #258
nexttothemoon
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
He said Nurse as a 20+min dman eating lots of top 4 minutes. I don't think it's unrealistic for him to not be there for 5-7 years considering how long most dmen take to develop. It's not like we're talking about Doughty or Pietrangelo here, Nurse doesn't play that type of game. I think he probably goes back to junior this year and next then possibly sticks on the team as a bottom pairing d man 2 years from now and works his way up somewhat slowly kind of like what we did with Smid.
Yep I get that but it's too pessimistic an outlook imo.

Here's the list of dmen that were younger than 23 when last season started and who played 20+ minutes for their teams last season...

Jonas Brodin
Justin Faulk
Cam Fowler
Tyson Barrie
Oliver Ekman-Larsson
Jared Cowan
Victor Hedman
Brendon Dillon
Dmitry Kulikov
Travis Hamonic
Zach Bogosian
Justin Schultz
Jake Gardiner
Michael Del Zotto
TJ Brodie
Roman Josi
Erik Karlsson
Tyler Myers


No reason to think Nurse couldn't be part of that group that makes an impact before the age of 23-25.

edit to add.... In previous seasons even more dmen under the age of 23 have also played 20+ minutes. Obviously each prospect is a unique case but no reason to assume it will take Nurse until 23-35 to play those minutes either.


Last edited by nexttothemoon: 09-10-2013 at 05:03 AM.
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Old
09-10-2013, 12:02 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Yeah but this is far from a primo Golden Bears squad. They've had lots better teams than this where they were untouchable.

But anyway I feel like cheering for the ol Bears squad, Its hard to like this Oilers replacements version. What did we get outscored in the tournament, 17-4? Something like that. Dismal.
Actually this years Bears team is supposed to be quite strong. Don't know why you would suggest they are not supposed to be.

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