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Old
09-08-2013, 11:04 PM
  #151
Eskimo44
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
What came first? GWG or team wins?
Being on a good team comes before both, wins are just a validation of ability. Game winning goals are largely predicated on opportunity, the goodness of the team provides opportunity. Therefore if you are not on a good team, a standard validated by wins, then you are lacking in opportunity. Game winning goals are certainly a requirement of victory but are also typically no more impactful than all the other goals for and against in a game. Gagner cannot manufacture opportunity on his own, as he cannot score game winning goals in spite of all other occurrences and variables in a game. Other players collectively have a far greater impact on the game than Gagner ever could have on his own.


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09-09-2013, 12:18 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
Being on a good team comes before both, wins are just a validation of ability. Game winning goals are largely predicated on opportunity, the goodness of the team provides opportunity. Therefore if you are not on a good team, a standard validated by wins, then you are lacking in opportunity. Game winning goals are certainly a requirement of victory but are also typically no more impactful than all the other goals for and against in a game. Gagner cannot manufacture opportunity on his own, as he cannot score game winning goals in spite of all other occurrences and variables in a game. Other players collectively have a far greater impact on the game than Gagner ever could have on his own.
A better method to gauge the effectiveness of a player based on his GWG would be to see what that percentage is compared to the team. Who's scoring the important goals? Who's scoring the GWG and the GTG's? And once we know those stats, are those players being played effectively (IE does Ryan Smyth deserve to be out there with 1 minute left in a losing 3-2 game)?

Being on a good team and winning means that the players are good. GWG have their place in evaluation. A GWG is by its nature much more important that the goal that puts you up 6-3.

Quantifying goals as they happen in various game states (Down 3-1, 3-2, tied 3-3, up 3-4, 3-5, 3-6) would affect the outcome, or chance of winning, depending how close you are to the median (Tie) and proportionate to how much time remains in the game. The whole facet of the game changes when a team ties up the game, and arguably more-so when a team takes the lead.

So in other words, the game becomes incredibly more volatile and chaotic the closer the score is to being tied. A player who can consistently score during these periods in a game is much more invaluable to a team than a player who doesn't. A team that lacks GWG and GTG scorers, is a team that frequently loses. I believe HF uses the word "Clutch" to arbitrarily describe these players. And while it's true that goals scored that lead up to a GTG/GWG are important, I could argue that the GWG scorers are the ones who are frequently scoring those, too.

I would be very interested to see league-wide who these players are. I believe players who've played for multiple teams would show similar stats.

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09-09-2013, 11:17 AM
  #153
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On Hockey Central, it was just stated: Nuge to miss all or almost all of October. Hall to play center.

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09-09-2013, 11:25 AM
  #154
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On Hockey Central, it was just stated: Nuge to miss all or almost all of October. Hall to play center.
This is news? Did they have big flashing lights and confetti too?

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09-09-2013, 11:27 AM
  #155
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This is news? Did they have big flashing lights and confetti too?
Sorry. Next time I'll keep it to myself.

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09-09-2013, 11:29 AM
  #156
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Listen to the local guys, the hearsay that is following this situation is quite large. Especially after all the different guys in Penticton.

Not saying HC is right or wrong, but I'm waiting for confirmation out of Edmonton on this.

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09-09-2013, 11:38 AM
  #157
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I think all this started after the MacT interview at Penticton where he confirmed RNH wont be playing any preseason games and said he is going by the most pessmistic date for his return which is Nov 01.

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09-09-2013, 11:41 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Mr V View Post
Sorry. Next time I'll keep it to myself.
I appreciated the update, thank you.

I think Hall will absolutely kill it at center. Too good of a player.

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09-09-2013, 11:48 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
I think all this started after the MacT interview at Penticton where he confirmed RNH wont be playing any preseason games and said he is going by the most pessmistic date for his return which is Nov 01.
Yeah. The Hall thing has been known to Oilers fans at least for a while now, and I don't think we've heard any official confirmation that RNH isn't ready for opening night.

I'm expecting this is just media repetition of stories as we get closer to opening night.

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09-09-2013, 12:10 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Mr V View Post
On Hockey Central, it was just stated: Nuge to miss all or almost all of October. Hall to play center.
appreciated

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09-09-2013, 12:16 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
I think all this started after the MacT interview at Penticton where he confirmed RNH wont be playing any preseason games and said he is going by the most pessmistic date for his return which is Nov 01.
Exactly this. I don't mean to be mean, but everything we hear about Nuge has been the same for months now. We heard that Hall was preparing to play some center a while ago when he mentioned it himself on a radio show.

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09-09-2013, 12:20 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
It's easy to draw that conclusion but it sounds like Eakin is the guy largely responsible for the acquisition of Acton. Based on all reports, he loved having him in Toronto last year in the AHL.

As for our "center problem," I just don't see it. If Nugent-Hopkins is healthy, we're perfectly fine with Lander likely on the fourth line. If Nugent-Hopkins has to miss a month, it's not the end of the world and we'll likely just see Hall move to centre for a few games with Hemsky getting bumped up into the top 6 (where he might actually establish some trade value).

I'm all for bringing in a few depth guys on tryout contracts to compete (not Steckel though - he's terrible now) but I don't see the need to panic and bring in a top 6 replacement.
At this point it seems to me that we are due to have a player come up from the minors and be a surprisingly compotent player. Been a long time since we have had someone come through our system and fill a role.

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09-09-2013, 01:21 PM
  #163
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Rishaug just tweeted again that Hall expects to start the season at center.

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09-09-2013, 01:23 PM
  #164
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mact already said arco in presser a while back

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09-09-2013, 03:54 PM
  #165
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Hypothetically, how would posters feel about the Oilers size and defensive factors down the middle if RNH and Hall become the long term #1 and #2 centres?

This is under the assumption that Hall performs at the same level at C that he did at LW and Gagner also makes a smooth transition over to LW.

I'm not really asking about the likelihood of this happening, but rather if people would feel there would be less concern over the centre positon going forward?

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09-09-2013, 03:58 PM
  #166
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I'd rather they just address the 2C hole and let Hall play LW.

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09-09-2013, 04:01 PM
  #167
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The lack of center depth scares the bejesus out of me for the month of October. 14 games, 10 against Eastern opponents, 12 of those games against teams that made the playoffs last season. I would hate to have to dig out of a hole that early!

Get well Nuge!

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09-09-2013, 04:39 PM
  #168
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I would rather not put Hall out of his natural position, but, whatever, I trust Eakins will make the best decision.

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09-09-2013, 05:25 PM
  #169
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Can Hall even play center? I had no idea that he even could. I'd prefer him to stay at his current position and give one of the other players a chance. Who knows, maybe one of the other actual centers will surprise?

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09-09-2013, 05:28 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by sTyLnK View Post
Can Hall even play center? I had no idea that he even could. I'd prefer him to stay at his current position and give one of the other players a chance. Who knows, maybe one of the other actual centers will surprise?
Hall has played C a bit, but after he did so well last year on the wing, I don't know why you would take him out of his natural position.

Give Arcobello, Grodon or Lander a chance. Nuge will only miss 10 games any way.

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09-09-2013, 05:48 PM
  #171
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If Hall becomes a good centre, would the Oilers keep Gagner?

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09-09-2013, 05:56 PM
  #172
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Mac-T quote from today

"...everything is on schedule but it's it's important for [the medical staff] that we maintain the most pessimistic schedule that we started with, that would be November 1st"

There hasn't been a setback - the Ortho surgeon probably just indicated there's no point playing pre-season games during the final stages of the shoulder's rehab. Wouldn't be surprised to see RNH get into the lineup before the halfway point of October - there are sure to be further follow-up appointments where this threshold for contact will become smaller and smaller.

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09-09-2013, 06:26 PM
  #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sTyLnK View Post
Can Hall even play center? I had no idea that he even could. I'd prefer him to stay at his current position and give one of the other players a chance. Who knows, maybe one of the other actual centers will surprise?

How it has been deemed that his natural position is lw seems pretty bizarre to me. By his own admission he played center his whole life till windsor then was moved to the wing because of center depth. Said he played half his games at center his last year of jr. In any event referred to himself as more of a rover in jr. I want my 2 best forwards as my #1&2 centers bossing the puck all over the ice. Anyways...my 2 cents.

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09-09-2013, 06:31 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
If Hall becomes a good centre, would the Oilers keep Gagner?
Well I for one feel Gagner is better suited for the wing so maybe it forces him over while Hall sticks at C... It's the most important position, he's our best player, I feel he has the ability to adapt quite well to the role personally

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09-09-2013, 07:00 PM
  #175
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I can't see MacT being as incompetent as Tambo. Our center depth with RNH is questionable (RNH-Gagner-Gordon-Lander/Acton/Arco), without RNH, it's pretty terrible. Either RNH isn't going to miss more than a week or two, or they must really have a lot of faith in Hall switching to center.

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