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The Out of Town Thread part LXVII - All Talk From Around the League Here

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09-10-2013, 12:21 AM
  #176
SergeConstantin74
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Philly won't be over the cap because Pronger's cap hit won't count. But with Cleary, they have 1,5M$ in cap space...


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09-10-2013, 12:32 AM
  #177
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Philly is tough to follow. They go after Lecavalier, Cleary to replace Briere and Gagne, but they have 10 Dmen under contract, and apparently are opting to go into next year with Emery and Mason as their goalie duo.

They do get good players but it seems to be because they're always interested in everybody not because they have a vision of a team they'd like to have.
They also have one of the easiest defence squad to play against in the league, it seems they completly ignore their most basic needs, we're are not even talking vision here, and go for the great players only.

They'll be forever contenders and will never be ready to win the cup. Next season Timmonen will be without a contract and 39 years old.

Streit (36 years old this year), Coburn, Schenn and Grossman those are the only regular NHLers they have on defence next season, only one of them can actualy put up points - Streit-. At least they have Hagg and Moring in their pipeline.

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09-10-2013, 12:59 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by SergeConstantin74 View Post
Philly won't be over the cap because Pronger's cap hit won't count. But with Cleary, they have 1,5M$ in cap space...
Why won't Pronger's cap hit count? It's a 35+ contract, they don't count against the cap in the new cba?

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09-10-2013, 08:05 AM
  #179
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Why won't Pronger's cap hit count? It's a 35+ contract, they don't count against the cap in the new cba?
He's going to be on the long-term injured reserve.

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09-10-2013, 08:22 AM
  #180
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I just want to express how floored I am at that Cleary contract.

To think people were moaning about Prust's last year.. Never change Philly, never change.

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09-10-2013, 08:23 AM
  #181
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Habs missed Pageau. Plain and simple. In April of his draft year, I had him going in 3rd. This is sometimes where size needs to take a backseat. Habs bet and lost. Slightly possible that Marc-Olivier Roy, ALSO develops into that kind of player. Remains to be seen though. As far as Didier is concerned, there's still some things to work with...But at this point he's a longshot.
All we keep hearing on here is how we have too many small players and have to dump Desharnais but all of a sudden we need another smurf like Pageau? He had a nice series against the Habs, mostly because our goalies sucked ass, he isn't a high end NHL prospect. If he's playing on your top 6, you're not an NHL playoff team. Period.

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09-10-2013, 08:26 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Philly is tough to follow. They go after Lecavalier, Cleary to replace Briere and Gagne, but they have 10 Dmen under contract, and apparently are opting to go into next year with Emery and Mason as their goalie duo.

They do get good players but it seems to be because they're always interested in everybody not because they have a vision of a team they'd like to have.
Holmgren has a "grass is always greener on the other side" syndrome.

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09-10-2013, 08:52 AM
  #183
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The Flyers, who are already over the cap, just signed Cleary at 2.75 million cap hit.
Well,I wanted him on the Habs but it's really not the end of the world, it's kind of sets a market for Morrow though.

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09-10-2013, 08:57 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by SergeConstantin74 View Post
Olivier Archambault isn't invited to the Wild's main camp... and not signed.

Hopefully, Josiah Didier ends up being better than Pageau, ah!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Habs missed Pageau. Plain and simple. In April of his draft year, I had him going in 3rd. This is sometimes where size needs to take a backseat. Habs bet and lost. Slightly possible that Marc-Olivier Roy, ALSO develops into that kind of player. Remains to be seen though. As far as Didier is concerned, there's still some things to work with...But at this point he's a longshot.
That's the nature of the draft, guys. You don't always get everyone you want. The Habs gambled Pageau would last one more pick, and he didn't. You win some and you lose some. In any case I don't think we missed out on a superstar here...

Anyway I tend to agree with Monctonscout. If we had Pageau on this team all we'd be talking about is how we need to get Pageau off this team.

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09-10-2013, 08:59 AM
  #185
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With Cleary signing, does Gagne sign with another team?

If he does, would Bergevin be interested? Should he be?

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09-10-2013, 09:14 AM
  #186
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What a joke. Holmgren has to leave Philly that's three lucrative contracts to players past their prime now, in one summer. He didn't address the obvious need in net and somewhat improved their defense but it's nothing like the core they had when they went to the finals. Too much term, too much money and a NTC to top it all off.

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09-10-2013, 09:18 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
All we keep hearing on here is how we have too many small players and have to dump Desharnais but all of a sudden we need another smurf like Pageau? He had a nice series against the Habs, mostly because our goalies sucked ass, he isn't a high end NHL prospect. If he's playing on your top 6, you're not an NHL playoff team. Period.
Great analysis, I guess we don't need Thomas, Andrighetto and Reway then? Who cares how great they look as they are surely too small to play in the NHL. And how brillant it is to already pencil a guy as a definitive non-high end NHL prospect after he played a total of a big 9 NHL games. In no way, am I saying he's a top player, at least not like you're saying that he isn't a top prospect, but based on the draft itself, Habs took a chance, that he'd be there in the 4th round, and add another pick. They lost on that one. Archambault is history and while Montreal like Didier, he is a longshot. He's not done but a longshot. Period. I also love how people think that once you drafted a guy, you're stuck with him for life. If we indeed are too small and have 7 midgets coming our way, a team will see that and in need of pure talent, they will trade one of the biggest guy they don't have a need for, for our smaller guy they would have a need for. Getting talent is never wasted.

We might have to dump Desharnais, but it has nothing to do with him being small. It has to do with him being ULTRA small, not physical and on top of everything, not racking points and not making his wingers better. So when you can't do ****, yes, you have to dump those guys. But other smaller players CAN do it.


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09-10-2013, 09:21 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Philly is tough to follow. They go after Lecavalier, Cleary to replace Briere and Gagne, but they have 10 Dmen under contract, and apparently are opting to go into next year with Emery and Mason as their goalie duo.

They do get good players but it seems to be because they're always interested in everybody not because they have a vision of a team they'd like to have.
His philosophy seems to be, that chemistry can built up in one year even with lot of new players that doesn't seems to fit that much, it's also when you can win a cup in his mind and since that chemistry can be gone the next season even with keeping the same players, he just try to get the best ones.

IMO he's wrong on underrating the effect of a good stable goalie though.

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09-10-2013, 09:22 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
That's the nature of the draft, guys. You don't always get everyone you want. The Habs gambled Pageau would last one more pick, and he didn't. You win some and you lose some. In any case I don't think we missed out on a superstar here...

Anyway I tend to agree with Monctonscout. If we had Pageau on this team all we'd be talking about is how we need to get Pageau off this team.
I know. I said it. We lost. People should stop to be defensive and pretend as if I or some of us mention as we're the worst scouting group in the NHL. I don't have that avatar 'cause I find him cute....

Monctonscout's point is pure nonsense. Some said that Dumont will have a chance to be in this team based on the fact that Parros might not be ready. Some think that Andrighetto might surprise and push to make this team. Lot of people loved their smaller kids at camp....Who wants them out? How the heck is Desharnais now the FACE of smaller players? We want to trade the bad Desharnais, the one from last year.....but when he was doing great with Cole and Pacioretty, please remind me who wanted him out again? Oh and we don't need Gallagher too....If the 4-5 smaller guys we have are pure quality, how the heck can we be opposed to that? I keep wanting bigger guys myself 'cause we did have too many smaller non physical kids. But the key is the mix...now it goes 360, and you think people only want to draft 6'3'' guys and up.....

Based on the draft alone, we passed on Pageau and drafted Archambault....not that size played that big of a role in this anyway...

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09-10-2013, 09:28 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I know. I said it. We lost. People should stop to be defensive and pretend as if I or some of us mention as we're the worst scouting group in the NHL. I don't have that avatar 'cause I find him cute....

Monctonscout's point is pure nonsense. Some said that Dumont will have a chance to be in this team based on the fact that Parros might not be ready. Some think that Andrighetto might surprise and push to make this team. Lot of people loved their smaller kids at camp....Who wants them out? How the heck is Desharnais now the FACE of smaller players? We want to trade the bad Desharnais, the one from last year.....but when he was doing great with Cole and Pacioretty, please remind me who wanted him out again? Oh and we don't need Gallagher too....If the 4-5 smaller guys we have are pure quality, how the heck can we be opposed to that? I keep wanting bigger guys myself 'cause we did have too many smaller non physical kids. But the key is the mix...now it goes 360, and you think people only want to draft 6'3'' guys and up.....
I guarantee you if/when Gallagher has a sophomore slump people are going to question his place on the team and if the Habs should move him while he still has value.

People love the small players when they're with the Bulldogs, or in training camp, or when they're doing well. As soon as they struggle on the Habs, the knives come out and they're the first ones people try to push out the door.

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09-10-2013, 09:29 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I know. I said it. We lost. People should stop to be defensive and pretend as if I or some of us mention as we're the worst scouting group in the NHL. I don't have that avatar 'cause I find him cute....

Monctonscout's point is pure nonsense. Some said that Dumont will have a chance to be in this team based on the fact that Parros might not be ready. Some think that Andrighetto might surprise and push to make this team. Lot of people loved their smaller kids at camp....Who wants them out? How the heck is Desharnais now the FACE of smaller players? We want to trade the bad Desharnais, the one from last year.....but when he was doing great with Cole and Pacioretty, please remind me who wanted him out again? Oh and we don't need Gallagher too....If the 4-5 smaller guys we have are pure quality, how the heck can we be opposed to that?
To be fair I think people love smaller guys when they are young and are still prospects (feel good story, some of them are feisty, they are couragous), but when they are permanents players and gets pushed around and are sometimes less effectives, some peoples doesn't like to see that at all. Especially, on a team with already many guys of that type.

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09-10-2013, 09:35 AM
  #192
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To be fair I think people love smaller guys when they are young and are still prospects (feel good story, some of them are feisty, they are couragous), but when they are permanents players and gets pushed around and are sometimes less effectives, some peoples doesn't like to see that at all. Especially, on a team with already many guys of that type.
Fine. So instead of writing "get those smaller guys out of here", write, "get those smaller, non-physical and non-productive players out of here"....and then I'll agree. Strangely, on that team, we do not include Gallagher. Pretty sure that despite his small stature....we want to keep him. Tough to think that Gionta also is the type of player you can easily pushed around. Leaves....DD up front. So if true...how do we have TOO many of those players??? Again, don't get me wrong. I want to be bigger. But I also happen to want to be better. And if it means getting a smaller really productive player on board instead of a lazy Bourque, if that's the Bourque we're getting this year, I say why not?

Absolutely true. We love our prospects as we can't compare them to the rest of the league so we think they are the greatest. Until they reach a higher level and we have to refrain ourselves. But the idea is that if Pageau is able to do what a Gallagher does, even if he's less of pest, people would REALLY want him gone anyway? Seriously?

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09-10-2013, 09:40 AM
  #193
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I guarantee you if/when Gallagher has a sophomore slump people are going to question his place on the team and if the Habs should move him while he still has value.

People love the small players when they're with the Bulldogs, or in training camp, or when they're doing well. As soon as they struggle on the Habs, the knives come out and they're the first ones people try to push out the door.
True. I think Pageau can be a NHL'er. Used to think that when he was in Junior, just being consequent here. But I'm not sure about the "other" smaller guys we have. Chances are, even if Gallagher doesn't score, he will alienate. He will have a purpose. He has a good head on his shoulders and frankly, if there's a sophomore jinx, well most sane people will understand that it might just be that....a sophomore jinx. Why really trade a kid in that kind of year? Gionta, is another one but for a different reason...getting old, best games are behind him.....But most people appreciate his play aside from the slapper along the boards. I personnally would have traded Gio for something else so that we are proactive and don't lose him for nothing next year. But I also can tell you one....if we are still contemplating a lazy Bourque....people would also want him out. Not sure that the big guys have a pass.

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09-10-2013, 09:42 AM
  #194
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Okay...time to wonder when Perezhooking and SKost will be back with the Habs...


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09-10-2013, 09:47 AM
  #195
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Fine. So instead of writing "get those smaller guys out of here", write, "get those smaller, non-physical and non-productive players out of here"....and then I'll agree. Strangely, on that team, we do not include Gallagher. Pretty sure that despite his small stature....we want to keep him. Tough to think that Gionta also is the type of player you can easily pushed around. Leaves....DD up front. So if true...how do we have TOO many of those players??? Again, don't get me wrong. I want to be bigger. But I also happen to want to be better. And if it means getting a smaller really productive player on board instead of a lazy Bourque, if that's the Bourque we're getting this year, I say why not?

Absolutely true. We love our prospects as we can't compare them to the rest of the league so we think they are the greatest. Until they reach a higher level and we have to refrain ourselves. But the idea is that if Pageau is able to do what a Gallagher does, even if he's less of pest, people would REALLY want him gone anyway? Seriously?
Don't get me wrong, I would have like Pageau on this prospect pool I think he will makes a name of himself as a Maxim Talbot kind of guy. I'm just talking about the whole board.

Also, even if he's a courageous, intense, two-way, feisty player, boy does Gionta get hate here, I mean there's so many people wanting to see him out. Even Gallagher IMO can't have a too much down season, otherwise you'll see the critics.

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09-10-2013, 09:50 AM
  #196
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Don't get me wrong, I would have like Pageau on this prospect pool I think he will makes a name of himself as a Maxim Talbot kind of guy. I'm just talking about the whole board.

Also, even if he's a courageous, intense, two-way, feisty player, boy does Gionta get hate here, I mean there's so many people wanting to see him out. Even Gallagher IMO can't have a too much down season, otherwise you'll see the critics.
Come on now. Everybody is criticized around here. How's Price doing? Who really has a pass based on the size he has? Nobody. Not here. Gionta doesn't get hate but people just think it's time to move on based on the near future. But Bourque got some hate too at one point. When O'Byrne was here....how much hate was he getting? Honestly, when it's time to bash...we don't have time to look at the size....

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09-10-2013, 09:54 AM
  #197
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Come on now. Everybody is criticized around here. How's Price doing? Who really has a pass based on the size he has? Nobody. Not here. Gionta doesn't get hate but people just think it's time to move on based on the near future. But Bourque got some hate too at one point. When O'Byrne was here....how much hate was he getting? Honestly, when it's time to bash...we don't have time to look at the size....
Well I know that's a pretty rough wolf pack here I just think the leash is much shorter on smaller guys !

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09-10-2013, 10:09 AM
  #198
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Yes Desharnais is a small guy and had difficulties last year. But for some time now I ask myself this question : how is it that on a board about prospects everyone are ready to crucifiate a player after one average semi-season.

A lot of people on this board talk like having a 60 point season in this league is easy while there's only 60 player a year that accomplishes that.

I do think Eller is better for the team but I also remember the Desharnais that came in 3 years ago that was flat out dominating weaker opposition with White and Pouliot as wingers.

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09-10-2013, 10:18 AM
  #199
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I want Gagné. He's my favourite active NHLer -- but how would he fit?

If Gionta's injured and Leblanc doesn't impress, I guess.

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09-10-2013, 10:23 AM
  #200
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I want Gagné. He's my favourite active NHLer -- but how would he fit?

If Gionta's injured and Leblanc doesn't impress, I guess.
He doesn't.

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