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Old
09-09-2013, 08:02 PM
  #826
Kovalev27
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Where the hell was Michael St Croix in this tourney. Terrible showing from him

The three guys fast lindberg and kristo needed to dominate and they did. That's what u take away from all this

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09-09-2013, 09:15 PM
  #827
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Originally Posted by Kovalev27 View Post
Where the hell was Michael St Croix in this tourney. Terrible showing from him

The three guys fast lindberg and kristo needed to dominate and they did. That's what u take away from all this
i wont be shocked if he starts in the ECHL..

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09-09-2013, 09:22 PM
  #828
Barbara Underhill
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Lindberg's shooting % was ridiculous.

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09-09-2013, 09:25 PM
  #829
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very few players from Traverse City tournament ends up being legit NHL regulars...Miller and Hags in that video and already made the NHL.... then they have depth players like Yogan and Wilson maybe they make it down the road but who knows if they ever will.

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09-09-2013, 09:54 PM
  #830
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Lindberg's shooting % was ridiculous.
From the highlights for his goals it looked like he was getting open in the slot quite often, its a pretty good reason to have a high shoot%

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09-10-2013, 02:02 AM
  #831
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Originally Posted by Kovalev27 View Post
Where the hell was Michael St Croix in this tourney. Terrible showing from him

The three guys fast lindberg and kristo needed to dominate and they did. That's what u take away from all this

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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
i wont be shocked if he starts in the ECHL..
That would be terrible for the Packers. They are already weak down the middle, having sent away Noob. If one of Miller or Lindberg is in the NHL, as they should be, who's our second line center? Jean? Who's on the third line?!

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09-10-2013, 02:04 AM
  #832
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
very few players from Traverse City tournament ends up being legit NHL regulars...Miller and Hags in that video and already made the NHL.... then they have depth players like Yogan and Wilson maybe they make it down the road but who knows if they ever will.

Yogurt is 10 times the player Wilson is.

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09-10-2013, 05:38 AM
  #833
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Had this team won the tourney?

Forwards:
Chris Kreider - JT Miller - Danny Kristo
Pavel Buchnevich - Oscar Lindberg - Jesper Fast
Michael St. Croix - Bo Nieves - Anthony Duclair
Adam Tambellini - Andrew Yogan - Steve Fogarty
Josh Nicholls - Kyle Jean - Thomas Spelling

D-Men:
Brady Skjei - Dylan McIllraith
Calle Andersson - Conor Allen
Ryan Graves - Samuel Noreau
Charlie Dodero - Troy Donnay

Goaltenders:
Scott Stacjer
The Mission

And if so - how would this have remotely mattered in the long run?
BBKers, good point.

And even with everyone on board, there is no top-notch D on that team (compare those 8 wtih Tim Erixon for example who was an established pro).

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09-10-2013, 05:57 AM
  #834
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Originally Posted by Calad View Post
From the highlights for his goals it looked like he was getting open in the slot quite often, its a pretty good reason to have a high shoot%
I think his thinking process is just a notch above -- or maybe more like "ahead" -- most others in that tournament. Players like that will pick up easy pts. He took regular shifts against Giroux, Stamkos and co just 5 months ago. In the end, this tournament is what it is. It might add some confidence; give a few players a chance to get used to NA ice etc.; it might give fresh prospects a taste of a little higher paced game; when broadcast, it might give us a chance to watch kids. It isn't much more to it than that.

Guys like Lindberg, Fast, St. Croix and co are pretty well known to us. They are what they are, and nothing they do in this tournament like "should" have an impact of that. The bottom line for me is this, and its basically identical to what I would have said before TC:

-Lindberg got the smarts and a perfect attitude. He is a good hockey player. But how will his intensity hold up at the NHL level? Is he ready or not? This question is one that I am pretty sure that anyone from AV to Ulfie to Clarke and co asks themselves too.

Then in a 3-4 year perspective, where will OL be? His game has gone straight up on a month by month basis the last 24 months. If he keeps developing, can he do for us more or less what Travis Zajac does for NJ? Will he level out on the bottom lines? Somewhere inbetween? I think its wide open.

-Jesper Fast is a prospect who looked to good to be true up until he broke his leg, and has since come back and played well, but without that last dot over the i so to speak.

A young modern type who excells in more or less all areas of the game, while really thriving in a up-tempo game both with and without the puck.

One injury like that won't destroy a career, but he has had flu, knee and shoulder problems too during the last 12 months. He needs a continius period of time where things are going his way now.

Upside, he could step right into a group of players from Ryan Callahan to Carl Hagelin and become a very solid home grown player on a strong 2nd - 3rd line. Heck I would be dissapointed if he did not within 2-3 years.

But to have a decent camp and then go down to AHL and break his hand and be our for 3 months and come back and have hamstring problems for a month and then get the flu for teh PO's just won't do it. Thats the big questionmark re Fast.

-MSC is very nifty with the puck, and will struggle without it. Where will that put him? How fast can he catch up? Can he catch up? Some have looked at his stats the last year and maybe expected more, but stats from the CHL is what it is. We saw it with Thomas and we see it with MSC and we will see it many times again. You need to watch the player first and foremost and put his stats up against that. Some will hold up other will not, for MSC its a longshot and the jury is still out.

-Kristo has had a good tournament. But from the little I've seen, the big issue for him is to play on a 2nd or 3rd line against much better competition. I mean, Sam Noreau will play to the dot the same game in the pro camp as he did in TC. He will do the same things, against better players yes, but still the same plays. This is not the case for Kristo. He can play one way against those D's on Minny's rookie team but when its McD, Staal, Girardi and co he faces in the corners, he will have to play a completely diffrent game. Jagr in his prime and a few others, if you get what I mean, plays like Kristo does in TC in the NHL.

This is not a knock on Kristo. But going from a Jagr in his prime of the NCAA to a Jarret Stoll or Kris Veersteeg in the NHL, or someone like that, is a big step to take. Can he take it and how long will it take?

-Yogan, I need to see more of him. From the little I've seen, all I can say that in general it is tough to get into the NHL for types like him. To put it like this, if you have a 6'2 200lbs young D, who moves your feet well, got a good attitude, is solid with the puck, it just seems like a matter of time before they grow into the NHL game. With a John Moore, its little "magic" involved for example. Its more of a process and when having gone through that process the kid finds himself in the NHL. But with a player like Yogan, what is the USP? Will it be enough?

In the end there are many players in his mold outside the NHL, and far from everyone get in even if they do there part and comes along well.


Last edited by Ola: 09-10-2013 at 06:13 AM.
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09-10-2013, 07:00 AM
  #835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
That would be terrible for the Packers. They are already weak down the middle, having sent away Noob. If one of Miller or Lindberg is in the NHL, as they should be, who's our second line center? Jean? Who's on the third line?!
Josh Nicholls? If St. Croix isn't ready for the AHL, he isn't ready. I've always had my doubts about his legitimacy as a prospect.

Haley is still around, and I'm sure they'll invite or sign another veteran.

EDIT:

Lindberg
Miller
St. Croix
Nicholls
Yogan
Powe
Bourque
Carroll
Jean

All guys that do/can play center. It's not great depth, but it's fine for the AHL--particularly with quality wings.

__________________

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Last edited by nyr2k2: 09-10-2013 at 07:10 AM.
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09-10-2013, 07:39 AM
  #836
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Ola, fantastic post down to the last comma.

Agree with 99% of it. Especially the caution RE MSC and CHL stats.

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09-10-2013, 08:15 AM
  #837
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Pro rated Yogan's AHL numbers would have been about in the same neighborhood as Christian Thomas's. Personally I think Yogan projects better than Thomas to be an NHL player albeit Thomas needs to make it as a top 6. Yogan's size and skillset seems to put him more in a bottom 6 role. The main thing for Andrew to do is to continue to progress while at the same time diversifying his game. This year coming up is huge for him. He has the size, the body type, enough skill and skating and decent enough hands to lead me to believe that he could put up 10-15 goal--20-25 point seasons sometime within the next 3-4 years. If he can pk--play a smart physical defensively responsible game then he can be a good bottom 6 forward. That's where he's projectable to me.

Which is why I wouldn't compare him to Lindberg, Fast or Kristo who all have a higher upside. Of those 3 at this point in time only Lindberg looks to me like the only guaranteed NHL'er mainly because I can see him in all kinds of roles up and down the lineup from top 6 to bottom 6. Kristo and Fast are smaller more offensive minded players.

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09-10-2013, 08:22 AM
  #838
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Highlights up. Nice goals.

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09-10-2013, 08:28 AM
  #839
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Also worth noting that Yogan started off extremely slow. He had 4 points in his first 19 games, then 15 points in 24 games thereafter--10 in his final 13. After he was sent down to the ECHL, he came up and really settled in. With each passing game he grew more confident. He should have a nice year, assuming he can stay healthy.

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09-10-2013, 09:18 AM
  #840
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
-Lindberg got the smarts and a perfect attitude. He is a good hockey player. But how will his intensity hold up at the NHL level? Is he ready or not? This question is one that I am pretty sure that anyone from AV to Ulfie to Clarke and co asks themselves too.

Then in a 3-4 year perspective, where will OL be? His game has gone straight up on a month by month basis the last 24 months. If he keeps developing, can he do for us more or less what Travis Zajac does for NJ? Will he level out on the bottom lines? Somewhere inbetween? I think its wide open.
I'm kind of pessimistic but I see him as a good quality third line player...the type you really want on your team as a third liner, but I'm still skeptical of his overall offense at the NHL level at this point. I can see a 30-40 point third liner that does the things you want.

Quote:
-Kristo has had a good tournament. But from the little I've seen, the big issue for him is to play on a 2nd or 3rd line against much better competition. I mean, Sam Noreau will play to the dot the same game in the pro camp as he did in TC. He will do the same things, against better players yes, but still the same plays. This is not the case for Kristo. He can play one way against those D's on Minny's rookie team but when its McD, Staal, Girardi and co he faces in the corners, he will have to play a completely diffrent game. Jagr in his prime and a few others, if you get what I mean, plays like Kristo does in TC in the NHL.

This is not a knock on Kristo. But going from a Jagr in his prime of the NCAA to a Jarret Stoll or Kris Veersteeg in the NHL, or someone like that, is a big step to take. Can he take it and how long will it take?
I think you're probably overselling this point a bit. Every player has to adjust and change their game some coming into the NHL, even the hugely skilled players like Crosby. They all have to work on some things. Lindberg and Fasth will have a lot to work on in order to be successful in the NHL. Less space, faster and smarter players, they won't be able to slide into open areas as easily, etc. They'll have to learn just like everyone else or they wont' be NHL players.

Kristo won't be able to dance around everyone at the NHL level I'm sure (since almost no players in the NHL can do that) but he's a puck possession player and he's going to live and die by that and the question is whether he has the skills to make it work or not. He's going to need to have the puck on his stick to be successful, if he can't then he probably won't make it. That doesn't mean he has to hotdog it all the time and beat 5 guys at once, it means he'll have to learn when to make plays and when not to take a risk, or when to pass the puck, etc. Not insurmountable issues, but we'll see how it goes.

e: I tend to think that you need puck possession players like that on your teams these days, but they need to be ones that aren't like Zherdev and who turn the puck over in bad places, etc. Even in general, turnovers aren't terrible since they mean that you have the puck a lot, but there's a difference between a turnover deep in the offensive zone because you're trying to create a scoring chance, and a turnover at the blueline/neutral zone/your own blueline because you think you can pull a slick move around an all-star NHL player or something.

Rangers need players who can hang onto the puck and create offense. Kristo can do that, but the question is if he's skilled enough at it to do it at the NHL level and if he's smart enough at it to not hurt as much as he helps

Quote:
-Yogan, I need to see more of him. From the little I've seen, all I can say that in general it is tough to get into the NHL for types like him. To put it like this, if you have a 6'2 200lbs young D, who moves your feet well, got a good attitude, is solid with the puck, it just seems like a matter of time before they grow into the NHL game. With a John Moore, its little "magic" involved for example. Its more of a process and when having gone through that process the kid finds himself in the NHL. But with a player like Yogan, what is the USP? Will it be enough?

In the end there are many players in his mold outside the NHL, and far from everyone get in even if they do there part and comes along well.
Usually these players can get in as decent fourth liners or so if they can be reliable defensively and provide some basic forechecking abilities, etc. The upside for a team like the Rangers is it's cheaper to develop a utility fourth liner than it is to sign one, usually, so Yogan can develop a good defensive game and a simple, relatively mistake free offensive game, he can likely serve a role

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09-10-2013, 09:33 AM
  #841
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I like Yogan as a prospect. He has a pretty well rounded toolbox in terms of size, skating, puck skill, grit and leadership, but he's never going to be able to be the best player on his line. He doesn't have the hockey sense to be the catalyst, but he has all the tools to be a solid complimentary forward. Reminds me a little bit of Troy Brouwer. Not the most skilled player, but compliments skill guys very well.

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09-10-2013, 09:56 AM
  #842
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I like Yogan as a prospect. He has a pretty well rounded toolbox in terms of size, skating, puck skill, grit and leadership, but he's never going to be able to be the best player on his line. He doesn't have the hockey sense to be the catalyst, but he has all the tools to be a solid complimentary forward. Reminds me a little bit of Troy Brouwer. Not the most skilled player, but compliments skill guys very well.
Agreed. Plenty of posters have killed the Rangers in recent years because they weren't developing their own high quality 3rd & 4th line guys. Yogan exactly fits that role and now people are pooh-poohing him as a prospect because they don't see him as having any particularly outstanding skills. Huh? This type of somewhat skilled, somewhat big, fairly tough guy who can keep up with the play is exactly the guy whose absence they've been lamenting on the bottom lines...

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09-10-2013, 10:14 AM
  #843
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It feels like Yogan has been around forever, but last year was only his first FULL pro season. I'm confident he can find a bottom 6 role in the NHL. He first needs to have a good season in HFD and become one of the team leaders.

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09-10-2013, 10:34 AM
  #844
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Agreed. Plenty of posters have killed the Rangers in recent years because they weren't developing their own high quality 3rd & 4th line guys. Yogan exactly fits that role and now people are pooh-poohing him as a prospect because they don't see him as having any particularly outstanding skills. Huh? This type of somewhat skilled, somewhat big, fairly tough guy who can keep up with the play is exactly the guy whose absence they've been lamenting on the bottom lines...
I think a lot of people were convinced he was a blossoming top-six forward after the productive year he had in the OHL. That, coupled with the fact that he's now hit the 3 year mark since he's been drafted, and I think some folks are losing patience. Such is the wonderful world of prospect watching.

If he can become a 4th line guy who hits, scraps, forechecks well, and can chip in a few goals here and there, then you've gotta be pretty happy with that from a 4th round pick. I do think there's a bit more versatility there that will come as he continues to develop as a pro. I just hope the Rangers don't give up on him too quickly.

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09-10-2013, 10:53 AM
  #845
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Highlights up. Nice goals.
Link please.

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09-10-2013, 11:26 AM
  #846
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Link please.
http://blueshirtsunited.com/videos/3...s#.Ui9H6cZwqSo

Not all the goals are shown.

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Old
09-10-2013, 11:54 AM
  #847
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I have been high on Yogan since he was drafted. He has the skill set to be a solid complimentary winger on either the 2nd or 3rd line. It takes longer for these bigger forwards to develop but the Rangers badly need someone like him.

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09-10-2013, 12:04 PM
  #848
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I like Yogan. I think there's a good chance he'll be a player--for how long? is one question and another will be for who? I could see us moving him if there is too much of a glut on our bottom lines. It's the thing with bottom 6 forwards that they usually move around a bit before their career is over. IMO he's a very usable piece though.

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09-10-2013, 01:03 PM
  #849
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for guys like Yogan it always seems to be that they can't just rest on the "big, skates well, solid skills" description of them. You've gotta do a bit more if you want to stick in the NHL...whether it's hit a lot, play great defense, or pot more goals than anticipated. Just being on the ice and not making mistakes won't really be enough to earn a roster spot

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09-10-2013, 02:01 PM
  #850
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Levitate- Good points.

I need to see more of Kristo, but he seems to me to be more of a goto scorer than puck possession player if you get what mean. He plays a game to controll the game. Slows it down, goes to open ice, etc. Actually kind of reminds me a bit of Naslund. In the NHL, most of the plays he make have to be to just keep the puck within the team. Diffrent purpose and diffrent plays. I do think that adjustment is much bigger than day OLs or Fasts adjustments.

On Yogan, I also think he could play. But Pyatt can play for 1.5m per. A Powe can play for what, 800k per. Sometime you have one spot and want a goon. Or a PK specialist. Or someone who is great on FOs. Or whatever. Leadership.

It's a numbers game too. If Yogan can become as good as Dubinsky or Anisimov or someone like that he will play. But if you are good enough to play on a 4th line, the numbers game is tough.

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