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Old
09-09-2013, 06:17 PM
  #26
Imlach a cup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moskau View Post
I think Grigorenko being gifted a spot is what has bothered me the most all off season.
Its not the Sabres fault the junior leagues are protected nor is it the Sabres fault that the junior leagues cant match the level of competition that a prospect like Grigorenko needs to develop further. I agree with your angst but concerned that you are directing it a team that has no control over where to put their top prospect. Personally I want him in Roc, but since that can't happen I'd rather see him under the Sabres staff than a brand new staff in Quebec.

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09-09-2013, 06:26 PM
  #27
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanekTheMvp View Post
I think McCormick makes the opening day roster on Porters' wing with Flynn/Scott on the other side. If he doesn't he will be traded..
McCormick just isn't worth a 4th line spot at this point. He's not the player he used to be. We have plenty of young guys who would be just fine in the bottom 6, such as Tropp, Flynn, Foligno, Larsson, perhaps Girgensons, etc.

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09-09-2013, 07:10 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imlach a cup View Post
Its not the Sabres fault the junior leagues are protected nor is it the Sabres fault that the junior leagues cant match the level of competition that a prospect like Grigorenko needs to develop further. I agree with your angst but concerned that you are directing it a team that has no control over where to put their top prospect. Personally I want him in Roc, but since that can't happen I'd rather see him under the Sabres staff than a brand new staff in Quebec.
It is, however, the Sabres' fault that they kept him up instead of letting his contract slide last year and even worse managed to screw up his service time for free agency purposes due to their own ignorance. Those factors contribute to him being effectively "gifted" a roster spot.

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09-09-2013, 07:40 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dotcommunism View Post
It is, however, the Sabres' fault that they kept him up instead of letting his contract slide last year and even worse managed to screw up his service time for free agency purposes due to their own ignorance. Those factors contribute to him being effectively "gifted" a roster spot.
Maybe, but it probably also helped his development to see how far he had to go to be able to keep up in the NHL. I'm not sure what having him in junior the entire year would've done other than make his contract slide. I'd rather his development be priority no.1; everything else can be figured out later.

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09-09-2013, 08:36 PM
  #30
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Ruhwedel (UBI) is hoping to be ready for camp. He's day-to-day.

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09-09-2013, 10:19 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
McCormick just isn't worth a 4th line spot at this point. He's not the player he used to be. We have plenty of young guys who would be just fine in the bottom 6, such as Tropp, Flynn, Foligno, Larsson, perhaps Girgensons, etc.
He is a veteran presence ..I'm not a huge fan of his, but I see us letting all these young prospects play and mesh thus allowing veterans to play with the big club and audition for deadline deals or in season trades.

McCormick
Porter
These are two players I could see playing up until the Christmas break and then being moved for a change of scenery prospect or mid round pick. That would allow the you get guys time to mesh and then use call ups accordingly.

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09-09-2013, 11:19 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanekTheMvp View Post
He is a veteran presence ..I'm not a huge fan of his, but I see us letting all these young prospects play and mesh thus allowing veterans to play with the big club and audition for deadline deals or in season trades.

McCormick
Porter
These are two players I could see playing up until the Christmas break and then being moved for a change of scenery prospect or mid round pick. That would allow the you get guys time to mesh and then use call ups accordingly.
McCormick was waived - he could've been had by any of the other 29 teams.

I'm a fan of his game, but I don't think 2 months of hockey on a poor club will change the outside opinion of him enough to garner a mid-round pick or prospect via trade.

Porter was also waived, though I think the fact that his last sample size of hockey has been trending up helps his case with regards to getting a higher return compared to McCormick.

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09-09-2013, 11:19 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moskau View Post
I think Grigorenko being gifted a spot is what has bothered me the most all off season.
He has to....with Roy no longer at his CHL team. To send him back to Quebec will do more harm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I wonder if there is a chance of Foligno starting in Rochester. The left side has a lot of folks in the mix; Vanek, Ennis, Ott, Leino, Foligno, Larsson, Girgs, Adam, McCormick, Scott and Ellis. Center is pretty full as well: Hodgson, Ennis, Grigs, Larsson, Porter, McCormick and Ellis.

I'm not saying it will happen or that its even likely. But he may have a hell of a battle on his hands to stay up.
i brought this up on another thread....

They may send Foligno down not necessarily as a demotion...but to see if he has chemistry in a Girgensons-Larsson-Foligno line.

Foligno has 1 year left of free movement between Rochester and Buffalo.

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09-09-2013, 11:26 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
McCormick was waived - he could've been had by any of the other 29 teams.

I'm a fan of his game, but I don't think 2 months of hockey on a poor club will change the outside opinion of him enough to garner a mid-round pick or prospect via trade.

Porter was also waived, though I think the fact that his last sample size of hockey has been trending up helps his case with regards to getting a higher return compared to McCormick.
Porter has a larger number of games...plus a cheap contract. He would be more claimable midseason.

I think both players would be more likely to get claimed on waivers in December or January than at the end of camp.

If the NHL had some sort of thing where if you claim players off of waivers the original team was responsible for part of their contract then more players would get claimed. Like with McCormick being claimed by a his cost would be the cap hit amount, not his full salary for a buried contract.

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09-09-2013, 11:32 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djp View Post
Porter has a larger number of games...plus a cheap contract. He would be more claimable midseason.

I think both players would be more likely to get claimed on waivers in December or January than at the end of camp.

If the NHL had some sort of thing where if you claim players off of waivers the original team was responsible for part of their contract then more players would get claimed. Like with McCormick being claimed by a his cost would be the cap hit amount, not his full salary for a buried contract.
Hypothetically, if both were somehow waived again this year, I definitely think Porter would be claimed this time around. Not even sure how that'd work for either of them.

But the post I quoted was talking about playing them on the NHL team for a month and a half and then trading them. I brought up the waiver thing to imply that Cody McCormick wouldn't fetch much, if anything, in a trade.

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09-10-2013, 07:23 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dotcommunism View Post
It is, however, the Sabres' fault that they kept him up instead of letting his contract slide last year and even worse managed to screw up his service time for free agency purposes due to their own ignorance. Those factors contribute to him being effectively "gifted" a roster spot.
Those factors have 0 to do with him having a spot on the roster. He earned his spot last season with an excellent Q performance. His eligibility for free agency? That's not even close to a roster spot discussion. The reason hr has a spot on the roster (I mean besides the fact that he has a ton talent) is because the only other option the Sabres have is to send him to Quebec to play in a league he dominates under a brand new coaching staff, a less than ideal situation. If he played all of last season in the Q guess what, he's still in the same position this year. Grigorenko's roster spot has a vast percentage more to do with Cabadian junior rules than any other factor. You wanna be mad about "omg he shouldn't be free agent so soon," fine I can't stop you, but it has nothing to do with him not being allowed to go where he should be.

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09-10-2013, 08:32 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imlach a cup View Post
Those factors have 0 to do with him having a spot on the roster. He earned his spot last season with an excellent Q performance. His eligibility for free agency? That's not even close to a roster spot discussion. The reason hr has a spot on the roster (I mean besides the fact that he has a ton talent) is because the only other option the Sabres have is to send him to Quebec to play in a league he dominates under a brand new coaching staff, a less than ideal situation. If he played all of last season in the Q guess what, he's still in the same position this year. Grigorenko's roster spot has a vast percentage more to do with Cabadian junior rules than any other factor. You wanna be mad about "omg he shouldn't be free agent so soon," fine I can't stop you, but it has nothing to do with him not being allowed to go where he should be.
He doesn't dominate the Q. He put up good scoring totals, but that is different from dominating the league.... especially come the playoffs when others stepped up their game and he did not. And yes, losing a year of team control is not the only reason to send him down but it is a mistake by the front office staff.

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09-10-2013, 09:38 AM
  #38
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What about Girgensons chances to make a first team?

Or even if could make the 3/4 line, maybe couches will decide to keep him in Rochester so he can get 1/2 line minutes and improve his offense?

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09-10-2013, 09:42 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by RobertR View Post
What about Girgensons chances to make a first team?

Or even if could make the 3/4 line, maybe couches will decide to keep him in Rochester so he can get 1/2 line minutes and improve his offense?
There's no way he makes the team out of camp. A call up at some point is pretty realistic, though.

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09-10-2013, 10:06 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
There's no way he makes the team out of camp. A call up at some point is pretty realistic, though.
any player has a chance to make the team, if Girgensons comes into camp and is one of the top players then he will be on the team.

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09-10-2013, 10:25 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
any player has a chance to make the team, if Girgensons comes into camp and is one of the top players then he will be on the team.
I was going to agree with Sabrefan27. But you are correct. There may be about a 1% chance that Girgensons makes the team out of training camp. The chance has more to do with injuries or trades than his performance in camp.

*****
Also Rolston was on HH this morning. Peters seemed to spill the beans on one of the training camp lines:

Tropp McCormick Kaleta

Either this is going to be an all-waived line for Rochester or a lot of fans will be wrong.

Rolston seemed to avoid the question regarding Ennis. I read in to it that they want Ennis on wing. Anybody else hear?

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09-10-2013, 11:03 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
any player has a chance to make the team, if Girgensons comes into camp and is one of the top players then he will be on the team.
And I could win the lottery tomorrow. Of course there's a chance. It's not very likely, though. That's the point.

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09-10-2013, 11:06 AM
  #43
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It looks like Miller is switching from Reebok back into Vaughn gear. It's interesting that he's making the switch in a contract year.

Enroth's set looks sweet!


Last edited by WhoIsJimBob: 09-10-2013 at 11:16 AM.
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09-10-2013, 11:07 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Jacob582 View Post
I was going to agree with Sabrefan27. But you are correct. There may be about a 1% chance that Girgensons makes the team out of training camp. The chance has more to do with injuries or trades than his performance in camp.

*****
Also Rolston was on HH this morning. Peters seemed to spill the beans on one of the training camp lines:

Tropp McCormick Kaleta

Either this is going to be an all-waived line for Rochester or a lot of fans will be wrong.


Rolston seemed to avoid the question regarding Ennis. I read in to it that they want Ennis on wing. Anybody else hear?
That would be a very interesting move if Rolston looks to that line to be the 4th line. It would put incredible pressure on the kids to make the team.

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09-10-2013, 11:12 AM
  #45
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He doesn't dominate the Q. He put up good scoring totals, but that is different from dominating the league.... especially come the playoffs when others stepped up their game and he did not. And yes, losing a year of team control is not the only reason to send him down but it is a mistake by the front office staff.
On his worst days he is capable of producing in the Q. There's nothing there for him to learn except bad habits. With a brand new coaching staff the Q will be a negative influence almost without exception. So if you eliminate the Q it leaves no other options except the Sabres. When you put that up next to his contract status there isn't even a comparison. If you wanna be mad at how the team handled fine, don't care, it was also a bi-product of him not being allowed to move to the AHL. The Sabre were pigeon holed by a stupid rule to protect inferior leagues, then the issue was compounded by a lockout. It happened, on a best case scenario we are taking about 1 season of control that may not even end up relevant. It's a non factor in a roster discussion.

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09-10-2013, 11:13 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
And I could win the lottery tomorrow. Of course there's a chance. It's not very likely, though. That's the point.
Okay. Now I agree with you.

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Old
09-10-2013, 11:13 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
There's no way he makes the team out of camp. A call up at some point is pretty realistic, though.
And these are the kinds of statements that can end up making people look like idiots.

Although yes I agree that he has a slim chance due to the forwards already up with the big club. I would also prefer he get more time in the AHL as well with Larsson.

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09-10-2013, 11:14 AM
  #48
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That would be a very interesting move if Rolston looks to that line to be the 4th line. It would put incredible pressure on the kids to make the team.
it will also be an indication that they want to slow cook this mofo... and i would agree. no one needs to be rushed.
Grigorenko can't go to Roch, so he will be gifted a spot...

Larsson, Porter, McCormick are competing for 2 spots
If Larsson makes it, 1 of Porter/McCormick becomes the 13th
Tropp vs Flynn for 12th

Vanek-Hodgson-Stafford
Ennis-Grigorenko-Leino
Foligno-Larsson/Porter-Ott
Tropp/Flynn-McCormick/Porter-Kaleta

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09-10-2013, 11:25 AM
  #49
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it will also be an indication that they want to slow cook this mofo... and i would agree. no one needs to be rushed.

Larsson, Porter, McCormick are competing for 2 spots
If Larsson makes it, 1 of Porter/McCormick becomes the 13th
Tropp vs Flynn for 12th

I rather slow cook like Detroit does with their prospects than the Edmonton route. Besides Darcy has mostly allowed his prospects to develop with time in the AHL.

I agree with your line up projection listed above.

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09-10-2013, 11:33 AM
  #50
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it will also be an indication that they want to slow cook this mofo... and i would agree. no one needs to be rushed.
Grigorenko can't go to Roch, so he will be gifted a spot...

Larsson, Porter, McCormick are competing for 2 spots
If Larsson makes it, 1 of Porter/McCormick becomes the 13th
Tropp vs Flynn for 12th

Vanek-Hodgson-Stafford
Ennis-Grigorenko-Leino
Foligno-Larsson/Porter-Ott
Tropp/Flynn-McCormick/Porter-Kaleta

I'm listening to Rolston right now and I would't read much into that line at all. RR expects 3 full teams to start camp, then whittled down to 2 teams then the actually roster. Rolston sounded like a guy thats going to be doing a lot of mixing and matching and things are pretty wide open.

I will say he spoke well of the characteristics of what those 3 players brought and how it can be used in different spots in the lineup.

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