HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The 2013-2014 Training Camp/Preseason Discussion Thread

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-10-2013, 05:07 PM
  #76
Cawlidge Hawkey
NCAA ** Juniors
 
Cawlidge Hawkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,124
vCash: 500
I'd like to think that the holdout is more of the agent's doing than Stepan's.

Cawlidge Hawkey is offline  
Old
09-10-2013, 05:11 PM
  #77
Lerb
Registered User
 
Lerb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,387
vCash: 500
Are the two sides really that far apart? His agent is talking about being far apart but at which point will anyone say it's close before anything is finalized? Everyone talks about leverage and holding out is the only thing holdy has. Why would his agent say anything positive until the papers are signed when the threat of the possibility of forcing NYR to have a detriment in their camp and even the start of the season is the only thing they have. Everyone has posted blogs and articles on the two sides being far apart but given how tight the cap is and how Glen and co. are so hard to work, could they be less far apart than what is being assumed here? I mean, Zucc had to negotiate, file for arb, negotiate some more before taking $1.25M when we all assumed at least $1.5M.

Lerb is online now  
Old
09-10-2013, 05:13 PM
  #78
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 13,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCrusty View Post
I simply can't imagine Step sitting out of games for money. I don't know. I could see MDZ do it, I could see Hagelin do it, I could see Brassard doing it. I can't see Holdy doing it.

It will surprise me if he sits a single game.
Let's run the hypotheticals. I'm sure Stepan's agents have done that.

On the one hand Stepan signs the Rangers bridge offer say $2.8 mil per for two years--so $5.6 mil.

On the other hand he holds out--the Rangers get off to a 2 and 6 start on the road and then win 2 of the next 4. Richards looks like **** and the team is desperate. After which Stepan then finally signs for $3.7 mil for 2 years--the first pro--rated worth about $3.2. In the end he sits out those dozen games or so but makes close to $7 mil for the two years.

Under such a scenario does he leave any money on the table holding out? No--he's made more.

eco's bones is offline  
Old
09-10-2013, 05:17 PM
  #79
NYRFAN218
Mac Truck
 
NYRFAN218's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCrusty View Post
Are the two sides really that far apart? His agent is talking about being far apart but at which point will anyone say it's close before anything is finalized? Everyone talks about leverage and holding out is the only thing holdy has. Why would his agent say anything positive until the papers are signed when the threat of the possibility of forcing NYR to have a detriment in their camp and even the start of the season is the only thing they have. Everyone has posted blogs and articles on the two sides being far apart but given how tight the cap is and how Glen and co. are so hard to work, could they be less far apart than what is being assumed here? I mean, Zucc had to negotiate, file for arb, negotiate some more before taking $1.25M when we all assumed at least $1.5M.
Well everyone is just basing it off Brooksie's article where he said Step is looking 5-6 years at around $5 mil per while the Rangers want the two year bridge contract between $2.5 and $3 or whatever the number was. I'd consider that far apart. Once Step and his agent come down to the two years the Rangers are looking for, I think it'll come together quickly.

__________________
http://hfboards.com/image.php?u=53946&type=sigpic&dateline=1320361610
NYRFAN218 is offline  
Old
09-10-2013, 05:17 PM
  #80
Lerb
Registered User
 
Lerb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,387
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Let's run the hypotheticals. I'm sure Stepan's agents have done that.

On the one hand Stepan signs the Rangers bridge offer say $2.8 mil per for two years--so $5.6 mil.

On the other hand he holds out--the Rangers get off to a 2 and 6 start on the road and then win 2 of the next 4. Richards looks like **** and the team is desperate. After which Stepan then finally signs for $3.7 mil for 2 years--the first pro--rated worth about $3.2. In the end he sits out those dozen games or so but makes close to $7 mil for the two years.

Under such a scenario does he leave any money on the table holding out? No--he's made more.
Let's watch the team fail is quite the route to take. Holdy was high on the camp an year during oly interview. Knowing his feet on the ground approach, he's not going to take these hypotheticals into reality.

Lerb is online now  
Old
09-10-2013, 05:19 PM
  #81
UAGoalieGuy
Registered User
 
UAGoalieGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Long Island,New York
Country: United States
Posts: 8,955
vCash: 500
Under that scenario, with the pro-rated salary he'd make an extra $900k. He wouldn't be game ready though as soon as he signs the contract. Could effect his numbers for this season.

UAGoalieGuy is offline  
Old
09-10-2013, 05:24 PM
  #82
Lerb
Registered User
 
Lerb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,387
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
Well everyone is just basing it off Brooksie's article where he said Step is looking 5-6 years at around $5 mil per while the Rangers want the two year bridge contract between $2.5 and $3 or whatever the number was. I'd consider that far apart. Once Step and his agent come down to the two years the Rangers are looking for, I think it'll come together quickly.
I'm not going to question sources because I don't know a thing but I wonder how recent that information is. Eve of camp and one is asking for $5-6M at 5-6YR in spite of the cap not allowing for $5-$6M and the other is sitting on $5.5M/2YR? The cap card is open for all to see.

On my inexperienced intuition, I think it's already down to the difference of ~$500K/year on a bridge.

Lerb is online now  
Old
09-10-2013, 05:50 PM
  #83
JeffMangum
Man Girardi
 
JeffMangum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Listening to music
Country: United States
Posts: 59,625
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by bishop12 View Post
Who says I am not a Rangers fan? Weird.

I know they;'re two different cases here...but him overpaying for that granny shows how OTL Slats.

Pay the man already.
Well, your profile says that you're not a Rangers fan, but rather a Craps fan. So...yeah.

__________________
Soon.
JeffMangum is offline  
Old
09-10-2013, 05:56 PM
  #84
Thirty One
portnor, pls
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,130
vCash: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by BB v2 0 View Post
Well, your profile says that you're not a Rangers fan, but rather a Craps fan. So...yeah.
Is that your only source? First hand information?

Thirty One is offline  
Old
09-10-2013, 06:21 PM
  #85
smoneil
Registered User
 
smoneil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Rochester
Country: United States
Posts: 2,291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
How reliable is 'ol Rose? Has she broken any stories recently?
I wouldn't question her. She's been pretty powerful since she got the Highlander powers.

smoneil is offline  
Old
09-10-2013, 06:30 PM
  #86
Lindberg Cheese
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: VA
Posts: 855
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Let's run the hypotheticals. I'm sure Stepan's agents have done that.

On the one hand Stepan signs the Rangers bridge offer say $2.8 mil per for two years--so $5.6 mil.

On the other hand he holds out--the Rangers get off to a 2 and 6 start on the road and then win 2 of the next 4. Richards looks like **** and the team is desperate. After which Stepan then finally signs for $3.7 mil for 2 years--the first pro--rated worth about $3.2. In the end he sits out those dozen games or so but makes close to $7 mil for the two years.

Under such a scenario does he leave any money on the table holding out? No--he's made more.
And earned a ticket out of town.....eventually

Lindberg Cheese is offline  
Old
09-10-2013, 06:46 PM
  #87
JeffMangum
Man Girardi
 
JeffMangum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Listening to music
Country: United States
Posts: 59,625
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Is that your only source? First hand information?
Rose told me, too.

JeffMangum is offline  
Old
09-10-2013, 06:51 PM
  #88
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 17,170
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BB v2 0 View Post
Rose told me, too.
Oh that Rose. Such a gossip.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
09-10-2013, 07:26 PM
  #89
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 13,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCrusty View Post
Let's watch the team fail is quite the route to take. Holdy was high on the camp an year during oly interview. Knowing his feet on the ground approach, he's not going to take these hypotheticals into reality.
It's an 82 game schedule. A slow start doesn't necessarily mean a failed season and the hypothetical might well turn into reality if Stepan is healthy but not in the lineup come the first road trip of the season. From Stepan's point of view--he might well see himself as the team's best center as probably most Rangers fans do. Considering that both Brassard and Richards are making more money and the fact that he's worked his first 3 seasons for cheap added to other comparable players scoring larger contracts than the Rangers are offering he and/or his camp have reason to believe that they should be doing better here--comparatively speaking and notwithstanding the Rangers salary structure vis-a-vis compliance with the salary cap. In other words--'Why is it me that has to take the hit for the rest of the team--especially those not earning their money with their play on the ice--(We're looking specifically at you Mr. Richards)?

We all expect these players to understand the parameters of the cap situation in the same way that we do. "Oh--you happen to be the last guy to sign--this is all we have left for you--take it or leave it" and all the fans going ''Oh-oh--he has no other choice unless he's going to be a ******** and let everybody down". The reality will be what the reality will be. Stepan might knuckle under and take the lower number $'s or he might not. I'm not going to hate or be angry with him whatever he decides.

eco's bones is offline  
Old
09-10-2013, 07:26 PM
  #90
GAGLine
HFBoards Sponsor
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindberg Cheese View Post
And earned a ticket out of town.....eventually
Doubt it. Unlike a large number of fans, Sather and company realize it's just business.

GAGLine is offline  
Old
09-10-2013, 07:28 PM
  #91
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 13,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindberg Cheese View Post
And earned a ticket out of town.....eventually
Maybe. This isn't Dubinsky who is a good player. This is a guy who is our best center and if he continues to get better he's probably a legit 1st line center. You don't get rid of guys like that if you can help it.

eco's bones is offline  
Old
09-10-2013, 08:05 PM
  #92
Lerb
Registered User
 
Lerb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,387
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
It's an 82 game schedule. A slow start doesn't necessarily mean a failed season and the hypothetical might well turn into reality if Stepan is healthy but not in the lineup come the first road trip of the season. From Stepan's point of view--he might well see himself as the team's best center as probably most Rangers fans do. Considering that both Brassard and Richards are making more money and the fact that he's worked his first 3 seasons for cheap added to other comparable players scoring larger contracts than the Rangers are offering he and/or his camp have reason to believe that they should be doing better here--comparatively speaking and notwithstanding the Rangers salary structure vis-a-vis compliance with the salary cap. In other words--'Why is it me that has to take the hit for the rest of the team--especially those not earning their money with their play on the ice--(We're looking specifically at you Mr. Richards)?

We all expect these players to understand the parameters of the cap situation in the same way that we do. "Oh--you happen to be the last guy to sign--this is all we have left for you--take it or leave it" and all the fans going ''Oh-oh--he has no other choice unless he's going to be a ******** and let everybody down". The reality will be what the reality will be. Stepan might knuckle under and take the lower number $'s or he might not. I'm not going to hate or be angry with him whatever he decides.
Not banking on a failing season. A 2-6 start is pretty bad and if the start isn't bad? He'll be down 10% salary which is around $275,000 plus his numbers are going to look weaker. You make it in this league by having PPG numbers based on a relatively full season. 90 points is the territory of $6M contracts.

It's entirely that mentality. He thinks he's being fair and NYR think they're being fair given their situation. Brad Richards had his years as a 1C to get his payday, regardless of his decline. Brassar is 25 and signed a contract under CBJ and presumably likens himself a close second to Holdy. If step is 25 and therefore pass the ELC-to-bridge phase, he's right to demand more even if the cap is tight.

Anyway. I think it's both trying to get paid plus his self eval. Being the other badger, the biggest youth asset moving forward out of our forwards whose been here longer than McD, and a two way C that we're not gonna be able to replace, as a player alone he's worth at least $4M.

Agents have a way of rousing their client up to be firm in their worth.

Lerb is online now  
Old
09-10-2013, 08:05 PM
  #93
Punxrocknyc19*
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 10,232
vCash: 500
why hasnt the training camp roster been announced yet??? maybe a trade in the works lol

Punxrocknyc19* is offline  
Old
09-10-2013, 08:15 PM
  #94
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 11,578
vCash: 500
does Stepan and his agent expect us to pull cap space out of our ass?

Lundsanity30 is offline  
Old
09-10-2013, 08:19 PM
  #95
RGY
(Jagr68NYR94Leetch)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,205
vCash: 500
I am excited for camp to start; especially with the yankees season coming to end shortly (probably officially calling it quits after tonight).

Some things I am looking forward to:

1. Another fantastic year from the King. Saw him on the new fox sports network about a week or so ago and he looked like he was in great shape as usual.

2. The 6 defensemen. I really believe we have the best 6 in the league led by Staal, McDonagh, Girardi, DZ, Stralman, and J. Moore. I think Moore will really come into his own this year. Stralman has been one of the most sound acquisitions the rangers have made in years imo.

3. The depth D. Moore will provide along with Pouliot. I think Pouliot is very underrated and having a guy like him in the bottom 6 will add some of that scoring we have been severely lacking outside of the top 6 the past few years. I think we actually have players that fit the roles of the 3rd and 4th lines.

4. I am looking forward to the competition in camp from Fasth, Lindberg, JT Miller, Hrivik, Kristo, and some other young forwards. With Cally and Hagelin missing a little time in the beginning of the season there is an opportunity for one or two of these forwards to earn spot(s)

5. I am hopeful that Kreider will have more jump and hunger to his game right out of the gate.

6. I'd like to see how Asham and Pyatt respond to the competition they have looking to push them out the door. (I think we need to keep Asham imo)


Cheers.

RGY is offline  
Old
09-10-2013, 08:25 PM
  #96
Punxrocknyc19*
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 10,232
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
I am excited for camp to start; especially with the yankees season coming to end shortly (probably officially calling it quits after tonight).

Some things I am looking forward to:

1. Another fantastic year from the King. Saw him on the new fox sports network about a week or so ago and he looked like he was in great shape as usual.

2. The 6 defensemen. I really believe we have the best 6 in the league led by Staal, McDonagh, Girardi, DZ, Stralman, and J. Moore. I think Moore will really come into his own this year. Stralman has been one of the most sound acquisitions the rangers have made in years imo.

3. The depth D. Moore will provide along with Pouliot. I think Pouliot is very underrated and having a guy like him in the bottom 6 will add some of that scoring we have been severely lacking outside of the top 6 the past few years. I think we actually have players that fit the roles of the 3rd and 4th lines.

4. I am looking forward to the competition in camp from Fasth, Lindberg, JT Miller, Hrivik, Kristo, and some other young forwards. With Cally and Hagelin missing a little time in the beginning of the season there is an opportunity for one or two of these forwards to earn spot(s)

5. I am hopeful that Kreider will have more jump and hunger to his game right out of the gate.

6. I'd like to see how Asham and Pyatt respond to the competition they have looking to push them out the door. (I think we need to keep Asham imo)


Cheers.
id keep Asham over Pyatt but trade both if a guy like Yogan or Haley make the team.... especially Haley because he can fill in at center if needed..

Punxrocknyc19* is offline  
Old
09-10-2013, 08:25 PM
  #97
Lerb
Registered User
 
Lerb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,387
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
does Stepan and his agent expect us to pull cap space out of our ass?
There's a joke that's there to make but I'll refrain... oooo....

Lerb is online now  
Old
09-10-2013, 08:25 PM
  #98
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 11,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
I am excited for camp to start; especially with the yankees season coming to end shortly (probably officially calling it quits after tonight).

Some things I am looking forward to:

1. Another fantastic year from the King. Saw him on the new fox sports network about a week or so ago and he looked like he was in great shape as usual.

2. The 6 defensemen. I really believe we have the best 6 in the league led by Staal, McDonagh, Girardi, DZ, Stralman, and J. Moore. I think Moore will really come into his own this year. Stralman has been one of the most sound acquisitions the rangers have made in years imo.

3. The depth D. Moore will provide along with Pouliot. I think Pouliot is very underrated and having a guy like him in the bottom 6 will add some of that scoring we have been severely lacking outside of the top 6 the past few years. I think we actually have players that fit the roles of the 3rd and 4th lines.

4. I am looking forward to the competition in camp from Fasth, Lindberg, JT Miller, Hrivik, Kristo, and some other young forwards. With Cally and Hagelin missing a little time in the beginning of the season there is an opportunity for one or two of these forwards to earn spot(s)

5. I am hopeful that Kreider will have more jump and hunger to his game right out of the gate.

6. I'd like to see how Asham and Pyatt respond to the competition they have looking to push them out the door. (I think we need to keep Asham imo)


Cheers.
`not to turn this into a Yankee thread..

Soriano draws me back in.. 2 games out looming????

Lundsanity30 is offline  
Old
09-10-2013, 08:32 PM
  #99
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 13,666
vCash: 500
Players for the most part cannot afford to have the same kind of loyalty to their teams that a fan does. Your typical fan sticks with his team come hell or high water. A fan--he/she also has practically no say in management or player decisions. Mostly we're just hopeless/helpless saps who need some distraction at least until the day we're stuck in a hole and an earth mover dumps some dirt on top of us or we go into the burner.

It's often called a business and this is more what the players know. 90 to 95 % of those who last more than 5 seasons are going to play for more than one NHL team. Between them and their current teams loyalty to the team can only mean so much when you can never be sure who you'll be playing for next week. The money that players get is a bit obscene IMO--but not any more obscene than the money the owners have or the various ways they 'earn' it. Personally I'd rather not know what any player makes or the involved schemes of the owners in their pursuit of multi billions. Before the cap it didn't matter. Now it does.

To me it's all about winning the SC. I don't want it to be about anything else. Don't necessarily care what the names of the players are as long as they're playing for my team. It doesn't matter where they come from, what race or religion (or not) they practice--or even what sexual persuasion or gender for that matter. I prefer to steer clear of violent criminals however--like Billy Tibbetts.

But as far as Stepan he has to do what he has to do. I'm not going to judge someone harshly when they believe they're acting in their own best interest at least when he's fulfilled his contractual obligations to the point where he's no longer obligated--which he has.

eco's bones is offline  
Old
09-10-2013, 08:47 PM
  #100
Championship*
#Joel&Ellie
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,499
vCash: 500
Kadri has re-signed, 2 years. Believed to be around 6 total. Bridge Contract. The bell tolls for thee Step, get it done, get in, play your ass off, get paid.

edit: 2.9 mill average

Championship* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:09 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.