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Old
09-10-2013, 02:23 PM
  #651
ChipAyten
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Not trying to incite a flame war here but having an event of this stature and prestige in a Muslim country is not a good idea. Qatar is in the middle of the world's most volatile region, a place where people are killed and cities are burned down over cartoons. I could only imagine the things that may go wrong. And what if Israel were to qualify? Oh and there's the weather. NO WINTER WORLD CUP! The world football calendar is built around club competitions in the winter.

It's still well enough in advance to change the venue. The only reason why FIFA probably will not is because they've already spent their oil money bribe money. The US came in second in the voting and should be awarded the event, the US has the infrastructure for. The game is slowly growing and by 2022 it could be the event to galvanize a generation which makes it top the NFL, who knows.

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09-10-2013, 02:59 PM
  #652
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We are 30 minutes outside of Columbus right now. What a freken long drive with 50 drunk people on a party bus.. Thank the stars for Sabaton and good headphones.

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09-10-2013, 03:01 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by ChipAyten View Post
Not trying to incite a flame war here but having an event of this stature and prestige in a Muslim country is not a good idea. Qatar is in the middle of the world's most volatile region, a place where people are killed and cities are burned down over cartoons. I could only imagine the things that may go wrong. And what if Israel were to qualify? Oh and there's the weather. NO WINTER WORLD CUP! The world football calendar is built around club competitions in the winter.

It's still well enough in advance to change the venue. The only reason why FIFA probably will not is because they've already spent their oil money bribe money. The US came in second in the voting and should be awarded the event, the US has the infrastructure for. The game is slowly growing and by 2022 it could be the event to galvanize a generation which makes it top the NFL, who knows.
You're off a ledge if you think professional soccer will bypass NFL ratings.

The MLS is arguably the 10th-15th best professional league in the world. I am a huge soccer fan and happy to see it growing, but the NFL is just above and beyond any sport in America.

The World Cup is the biggest sports event on the planet. But there is just absolutely no way that MLS will takeover the NFL anytime soon.

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09-10-2013, 03:02 PM
  #654
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We are 30 minutes outside of Columbus right now. What a freken long drive with 50 drunk people on a party bus.. Thank the stars for Sabaton and good headphones.
Have fun. Really hoping for a win, but expecting we won't. Too many key players out and Bradley is to vital a cog for this team to survive without him.

Prove me wrong boys!

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09-10-2013, 03:13 PM
  #655
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You're off a ledge if you think professional soccer will bypass NFL ratings.

The MLS is arguably the 10th-15th best professional league in the world. I am a huge soccer fan and happy to see it growing, but the NFL is just above and beyond any sport in America.

The World Cup is the biggest sports event on the planet. But there is just absolutely no way that MLS will takeover the NFL anytime soon.
Things change my friend, times are fluid. There was a time when nobody believed the Roman empire would fall. Only 20 years ago MLB drew more then the NFL did. Football has experienced exponential growth in the states in recent years. The MLS from top to bottom is probably on par with the Eredivisie. It was a slow start but as children are being born into the footy culture and grow up with the sport more and more American talent will flourish, with it the ratings will follow. Soccer is slowly losing its label as a sport grade school children are driven to by their middle class suburban mothers on weekends, a novelty and cliche of sorts. Athletic children today are being pushed further and further to play soccer as a first choice when they'd otherwise be pushed to basketball, baseball or american footy and leave soccer as sort of a pickup activity occasionally.

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09-10-2013, 04:59 PM
  #656
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Originally Posted by ChipAyten View Post
Things change my friend, times are fluid. There was a time when nobody believed the Roman empire would fall. Only 20 years ago MLB drew more then the NFL did. Football has experienced exponential growth in the states in recent years. The MLS from top to bottom is probably on par with the Eredivisie. It was a slow start but as children are being born into the footy culture and grow up with the sport more and more American talent will flourish, with it the ratings will follow. Soccer is slowly losing its label as a sport grade school children are driven to by their middle class suburban mothers on weekends, a novelty and cliche of sorts. Athletic children today are being pushed further and further to play soccer as a first choice when they'd otherwise be pushed to basketball, baseball or american footy and leave soccer as sort of a pickup activity occasionally.
And what, football is going to stop growing? Honestly, I like soccer more than football but it's not even arguable that the MLS is nowhere near the top Soccer league in the world. Anyone who is a fan of the sport watches La Liga, EPL, Bundesliga, etc.

Sure, Americans are attending MLS games more and more and that's great to see. But Americans have always been a spoiled nation who wants the best of the best.

A sport that is led in America by the at best, 8th or 9th best league in the world, is not going to outdo a league that gives you the best.

All the other 4 major american sports are the #1 leagues in the world. MLB, NHL, NFL and NBA.

As more fans become exposed, soccer will certainly increase, but until our league is established outright as the best in the world, it will never outrank that of the NFL.

The true fans (like myself) will flock to the EPL on Saturday mornings, or LA Liga on Sundays. I can honestly say, I consider the AHL a comparable to the MLS.

I like your passion, but your argument is so far off base.

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09-10-2013, 05:18 PM
  #657
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I know a lot of Americans who simply don't feel the same passion about a team they can't be a season ticket hole for, in their geographical area.

Trying to improve s a league is one thing, but an emphasis on best of the best is overhyped. If the NHL was the 10th best league in the world I'd still watch it just as passionately, same for the NFL. Americans will not only support the best league, because in soccer there is no such thing. Americans just happen to like sports that few other countries have as much talent/interest in.

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09-10-2013, 06:48 PM
  #658
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I know a lot of Americans who simply don't feel the same passion about a team they can't be a season ticket hole for, in their geographical area.

Trying to improve s a league is one thing, but an emphasis on best of the best is overhyped. If the NHL was the 10th best league in the world I'd still watch it just as passionately, same for the NFL. Americans will not only support the best league, because in soccer there is no such thing. Americans just happen to like sports that few other countries have as much talent/interest in.

I'm not sure how you could definitely say that, since you are not posed with that position.

I could agree that if every league we had in the US was third or fourth best, that would change things.

However, as americans, we are given the best of the best in our major sports and even trickling down to other things like Tennis, Golf, Etc.

I don't believe that in a country where we have the best leagues in 4 major sports, or 3 + the NHL, however you choose to look at it, that a sport that is led by arguably the 10th best league in the US will become more popular than the NFL, etc.

Tickets are cheap still, I can get Red Bull tickets for like 20$ along with a poster and some food included.

The average price for the Giants Cowboys game was something like 250$ at face value.

Soccer has an insanely long way to go and saying that it could potentially overtake the NFL in ten years is just absurd.

Also, adding onto the fact that the MLS doesn't attract the best players in the world, it can't even keep the best US players.

Dempsey and Donovan are in the US to finish their careers. But Altidore, Bradley, etc are overseas playing in the better leagues.

Are American fans really going to follow a league ad sport as passionately as the NFL if our own citizens choose to player elsewhere.

No one would be happier than me to see the MLS attract all the star players and become the EPL, but it won't happen anytime soon. And due to it being a second level league (i'm being generous) it won't overttake our top sports here.

People can afford to go right now, it's a good family outing and in these crappy financial times, it's a nice way to get out and see some good players play a game. It's completely different from the way that the NFL, MLB etc profit off of their leagues.

American soccer is not even in the same stratosphere as our top leagues.

Unless the growth of the sport is jettisoned by a world cup win or something, it will continue to grow, but in no way will come near the NFL within ten years. i

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09-10-2013, 07:38 PM
  #659
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I love to watch RBNY and the MLS, but I also I love to see the growth of the EPL in the US. You see supporters wearing jerseys wherever you go nowadays, at least in NY you do. Walking around the city last weekend with my Daniel Agger LFC jersey, it was great to see other fans wearing jerseys. Saw a guy with a Spurs jersey, Chelsea jersey, and Aston Villa jersey. I think NBC and the BPL are doing a great job of catering to the already existing fans in the US market, as well as developing a new fan base.

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09-10-2013, 07:56 PM
  #660
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Now, look I respect everyone's opinion, but you're posting misleading information here.

Landon Donovan has been here the vast majority of his career including his prime. He had successful stints at Everton, they wanted him, but MLS's asking price was too high (close to 15 million for a 28 year old)

Dempsey is still a top 3 player on the USMNT. Only Bradley has a legitimate claim to be superior. He is 30, and one season removed from his very best, so suggesting he is here to finish his career is a bit different than a lot of players. Hes a staple on his national team and has a world cup coming up.

Fact of the matter is, 2 of the best 3 USMNT players play in MLS, and this is a league that is in its 17th year. How in the hell can you expect a 17 year old league with no historical fanbases to so quickly overtake European leagues with 100+ year of history?

The only way for the league to improve is to support it. If you're ignoring MLS, you're not only hurting the future of the USMNT, but you're contributing to the quality problem.

Incidentally, I enjoy supporting Arsenl. But I'll never feel the same level of affiliation with them. Plus 3/4ths of the fanbase hates all Americans. Makes me feel a bit unwelcome.

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09-10-2013, 07:57 PM
  #661
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I'm sorry but American footy fans just seem so plastic. Must I endure all this second hand embarrassment? What is this "The American Outlaws" really? Cheesecake factory. Quit trying so hard to be like european ultras and develop your own unique flavor. Perhaps it's because heartland American culture is so generic and bland?

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09-10-2013, 10:12 PM
  #662
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Originally Posted by ChipAyten View Post
I'm sorry but American footy fans just seem so plastic. Must I endure all this second hand embarrassment? What is this "The American Outlaws" really? Cheesecake factory. Quit trying so hard to be like european ultras and develop your own unique flavor. Perhaps it's because heartland American culture is so generic and bland?
So being a passionate fan is frowned upon. Noted.

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09-10-2013, 10:17 PM
  #663
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USA qualifies for the 2014 World Cup!

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09-10-2013, 10:18 PM
  #664
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Dos a cero!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old
09-10-2013, 11:40 PM
  #665
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Now, look I respect everyone's opinion, but you're posting misleading information here.

Landon Donovan has been here the vast majority of his career including his prime. He had successful stints at Everton, they wanted him, but MLS's asking price was too high (close to 15 million for a 28 year old)

Dempsey is still a top 3 player on the USMNT. Only Bradley has a legitimate claim to be superior. He is 30, and one season removed from his very best, so suggesting he is here to finish his career is a bit different than a lot of players. Hes a staple on his national team and has a world cup coming up.

Fact of the matter is, 2 of the best 3 USMNT players play in MLS, and this is a league that is in its 17th year. How in the hell can you expect a 17 year old league with no historical fanbases to so quickly overtake European leagues with 100+ year of history?

The only way for the league to improve is to support it. If you're ignoring MLS, you're not only hurting the future of the USMNT, but you're contributing to the quality problem.

Incidentally, I enjoy supporting Arsenl. But I'll never feel the same level of affiliation with them. Plus 3/4ths of the fanbase hates all Americans. Makes me feel a bit unwelcome.
I'm posting misleading info? The only reason Dempsey forced his way out of Tottenham is because with all of their new signings this year, he wasn't going to see ANY playing time at all.

He is 30 years old and while still an important cog on the USMNT he is on the backend of his career. Donovan spent more time in the US and is the greatest of all time, but he was still overseas for some of his prime years.

Dempsey was gone for nearly all of his prime years.

Arsenal has one of the largest fanbases in the US. Honestly, I am out at bars in NYC every saturday morning to watch the EPL and there fans are as welcoming, if not more, than when i go to bars to watch hockey. They have a massive New York Arsenal supporters club that meets for every game at Nevada Smiths in the East Village.

I don't know what bars you are going to, but Arsenal fans are some of hte most welcoming in the US, if not THE most welcoming fans from the EPL. Liverpool on the other hand, is a different story.

I support Sunderland, don't ask why, and honestly, will never ever affiliate with an MLS team over them.

Don't tell me I"m hurting US soccer by being a fan of a league that I've watched for years over a league that was a joke and retirement home up until a handful of years ago.

The MLS is fine popcorn viewing, but until they can woo big, in their prime players, from the Majors, then they will not compete and will never overtake the NFL as the major US sport.

And it starts with keeping your homegrown talent. Our two brightest young stars in Altidore and Bradley are both overseas. Our two top goalies, Guzan and Howard, both in the EPL.

I'm sorry, but i'm not going to become fully invested in a league that can't even hold onto US star players, let alone attract international players who are still at the top of their game. Why watch the AHL when i can have the NHL. I want to see the best compete with the best. The majority of MLS players are subpar. Watching Messi, Ronaldo, V. Persie, Rooney, Ozil, Lampard, Gerrard, etc is just much more appealing to a fan of the game.

Beckham, Henry, etc all came here for an end of their career payday. Same thing that Dempsey is doing. He got pushed out of the EPL and got a payday here that is larger than most of the guys on Manchester United.

These are the kinds of things that the MLS has to do. Dempsey was a good move for them. Now keep doing it and don't only focus on washed up players and Us players. Go for transfers for big in their prime players. Make bids on them. Cause a ruckus during transfer season.

None of these things are happening on a regular basis.

And no, I don't blame nor expect the MLS to catch up to the popularity of the EPL overnight. But that wasn't my argument. My argument is that the MLS is nowhere near competing with the NFL as the major US sport.

And as of now, it's absolutely laughable to think that it can compete within the next ten years.

On another note, US made me eat my tounge tonight. Didn't think they could get the job done without Jozy, Bradley, Cameron, Besler etc.

Great gutsy performance. 2014!!!

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09-10-2013, 11:45 PM
  #666
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I'm sorry but American footy fans just seem so plastic. Must I endure all this second hand embarrassment? What is this "The American Outlaws" really? Cheesecake factory. Quit trying so hard to be like european ultras and develop your own unique flavor. Perhaps it's because heartland American culture is so generic and bland?
What would you prefer that they do?

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09-11-2013, 09:27 AM
  #667
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In the eyes of Eurosnobs, players are only good when they are not in MLS. That's the unfortunate long and short of it. Now that Dempsey is in MLS he is below Jozy and Bradley which no one would have dared suggest 6 months ago.

I'm not going to argue about the aggregate quality of the league with you. What I will say is that people that jump on only in the future when MLS is a top league are not going to be real fans. They'll b e out and out leaguewide bandwagoners.

If the Rangers never had a Stanley Cup championship, and were near the bottom of the league every year, I would still pull for them. I go to the games, get to meet the players, and go out after the games. Same with Major League soccer. Whether or not we have the world's sexiest players right now is tertiary to me. It's greedy and short-sighted to expect the league to be anywhere else right now, and in fact, attendance suggests a lot less people are feeling the way you do about it.

Subpar depends on what the standard of Par is. I believe MLS to be at the quality of the Eredivise and Portugese league, minus the imbalance due to an emphasis on parity. All that with a cap hit of 3 million. RBNY has Tim Cahill, David Carney, Roy Miller who will all be playing in the world cup finals next year. They have a set of very good players from The Championship in England who have worked hard to break into the starting XI and are getting a chance now. They had a Mexican National Team legend who couldn't cut it in the pace and physicality of the league who left with his tail between his legs, and Juninho Pernambucano who did the same and is now ripping up the "far superior" Brazilian league after being useless here.

Seattle Sounders have a team with strong talent and dept, and are pulling over 40 thousand people a game right now. I don't give a **** if they could beat Real Madrid or not, that's a fun thing to be a part of.

Every Donovan WC year he was playing most of his matches in MLS. You are totally incorrect on that. And the "backside of a career" will change in the eyes of those who dislike the league to whatever age players come here. Is Obafemi Martins on the backside of his career? Was Fredy Montero? And what of all the young American players who have gotten their start in this league? Not worth watching the next ones until they're in England?


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09-11-2013, 09:59 AM
  #668
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I'm posting misleading info? The only reason Dempsey forced his way out of Tottenham is because with all of their new signings this year, he wasn't going to see ANY playing time at all.

He is 30 years old and while still an important cog on the USMNT he is on the backend of his career. Donovan spent more time in the US and is the greatest of all time, but he was still overseas for some of his prime years.

---

I'm sorry, but i'm not going to become fully invested in a league that can't even hold onto US star players, let alone attract international players who are still at the top of their game. Why watch the AHL when i can have the NHL. I want to see the best compete with the best. The majority of MLS players are subpar. Watching Messi, Ronaldo, V. Persie, Rooney, Ozil, Lampard, Gerrard, etc is just much more appealing to a fan of the game.

Beckham, Henry, etc all came here for an end of their career payday. Same thing that Dempsey is doing. He got pushed out of the EPL and got a payday here that is larger than most of the guys on Manchester United.

And no, I don't blame nor expect the MLS to catch up to the popularity of the EPL overnight. But that wasn't my argument. My argument is that the MLS is nowhere near competing with the NFL as the major US sport.

And as of now, it's absolutely laughable to think that it can compete within the next ten years.
- Dempsey returning to MLS had as much to do with the WC next year as his inability to get along with AVB

- 20 years ago there were 6 teams, and now the league is about to have 20 teams. This is a (quickly) growing league that is trying to compete out of a niche market, and is doing a very good job at it. Asking for the MLS to surpass any of the big 4 leagues in the next 10 years is a bit of a stretch, let alone one of the biggest industries in the United States (NFL/fantasy football/gambling).

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09-11-2013, 11:23 AM
  #669
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Originally Posted by ChipAyten View Post
I'm sorry but American footy fans just seem so plastic. Must I endure all this second hand embarrassment? What is this "The American Outlaws" really? Cheesecake factory. Quit trying so hard to be like european ultras and develop your own unique flavor. Perhaps it's because heartland American culture is so generic and bland?
Considering most European Ultras do nothing else than trying hard to be like the original and "real" Italian Ultras, I don't see the problem with American fans doing the same.

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09-11-2013, 11:24 AM
  #670
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What a freken game! And what a freken atmosphere,!!

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09-11-2013, 12:33 PM
  #671
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Great result last night. I want to know what the people who said Landon was done are saying now!

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09-11-2013, 01:10 PM
  #672
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Great result last night. I want to know what the people who said Landon was done are saying now!
Still a top 5 player on the roster. His vision is still world-class, and hasn't lost too much pace for a 31 year old.

I think he and Clint could be on the roster in a limited role come 2018, if they really wanted, but I expect they'll both retire internationally after 2014. Jones, Beasley, Goodson, Howard, Johnson will likely not make it to 2018, either. By then, Bradley, Guzan, Gonzalez, and Altidore will be the core of the team.

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09-11-2013, 01:26 PM
  #673
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- Dempsey returning to MLS had as much to do with the WC next year as his inability to get along with AVB

- 20 years ago there were 6 teams, and now the league is about to have 20 teams. This is a (quickly) growing league that is trying to compete out of a niche market, and is doing a very good job at it. Asking for the MLS to surpass any of the big 4 leagues in the next 10 years is a bit of a stretch, let alone one of the biggest industries in the United States (NFL/fantasy football/gambling).
So you agree with me then?

The MLS, no matter how quick it grows, will not come near football within ten years.

And do you really think Dempsey was going to get any playing time on the Spurs this year? Of course he had a problem with the manager. They went out and bought every player possible. He became an afterthought. He's been regarded as one of, if not the best US player over the past bunch of years.

It's not easy for a "star" player to take a backseat.

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09-11-2013, 01:30 PM
  #674
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In the eyes of Eurosnobs, players are only good when they are not in MLS. That's the unfortunate long and short of it. Now that Dempsey is in MLS he is below Jozy and Bradley which no one would have dared suggest 6 months ago.

I'm not going to argue about the aggregate quality of the league with you. What I will say is that people that jump on only in the future when MLS is a top league are not going to be real fans. They'll b e out and out leaguewide bandwagoners.

If the Rangers never had a Stanley Cup championship, and were near the bottom of the league every year, I would still pull for them. I go to the games, get to meet the players, and go out after the games. Same with Major League soccer. Whether or not we have the world's sexiest players right now is tertiary to me. It's greedy and short-sighted to expect the league to be anywhere else right now, and in fact, attendance suggests a lot less people are feeling the way you do about it.

Subpar depends on what the standard of Par is. I believe MLS to be at the quality of the Eredivise and Portugese league, minus the imbalance due to an emphasis on parity. All that with a cap hit of 3 million. RBNY has Tim Cahill, David Carney, Roy Miller who will all be playing in the world cup finals next year. They have a set of very good players from The Championship in England who have worked hard to break into the starting XI and are getting a chance now. They had a Mexican National Team legend who couldn't cut it in the pace and physicality of the league who left with his tail between his legs, and Juninho Pernambucano who did the same and is now ripping up the "far superior" Brazilian league after being useless here.

Seattle Sounders have a team with strong talent and dept, and are pulling over 40 thousand people a game right now. I don't give a **** if they could beat Real Madrid or not, that's a fun thing to be a part of.

Every Donovan WC year he was playing most of his matches in MLS. You are totally incorrect on that. And the "backside of a career" will change in the eyes of those who dislike the league to whatever age players come here. Is Obafemi Martins on the backside of his career? Was Fredy Montero? And what of all the young American players who have gotten their start in this league? Not worth watching the next ones until they're in England?
So I'm not a real fan if i start watching the MLS until they're a top league? That's ridiculous. Being a fan of a professional team when they suck and then become good, is completely different. That's frontrunning and you end up rooting for rivals against your team. Honestly, that's completely grasping at straws. I cheer for two different teams, one in La Liga, one in EPL, does that make me not as big a fan for each team since they both play the same sport?

The MLS isn't fighting against the EPL or LA Liga. It's like the AHL and the NHL.

If the AHL or KHL someday becomes the more popular league than the NHL and you begin to follow it, would you consider yourself not a fan? I'm a fan of the sport adn I want to see the best.

The best isn't in the MLS, in fact it's not even close.

I think you feel some personal connection to the league and it's getting in the way of your judgement.


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09-11-2013, 01:33 PM
  #675
nyrleetch
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Still a top 5 player on the roster. His vision is still world-class, and hasn't lost too much pace for a 31 year old.

I think he and Clint could be on the roster in a limited role come 2018, if they really wanted, but I expect they'll both retire internationally after 2014. Jones, Beasley, Goodson, Howard, Johnson will likely not make it to 2018, either. By then, Bradley, Guzan, Gonzalez, and Altidore will be the core of the team.
That would be something if they were on 2018. I mean who else has played in 5 WC?

And agreed on his vision it's still amazing. Can't wait to see our A team with Bradley back combined with Donovan return and Jozy's play right now.

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