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2013 Rookie camp roster (September 5-9)

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09-11-2013, 09:18 AM
  #601
montreal
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I really don't like prospects like Vail. He doesn't have any dominant physical traits and doesn't play with much of an edge at all. This type of prospect almost never makes it to the NHL. He looks like a decent player at the CHL level with a decent all around skill set but that just won't cut it at the next level without a strong compete level and a willingness to get dirty.

Players like this provide a lot of false hope for fans as they always try to project them as future 3rd liners in the NHL. The fact is that most NHL 3rd liners were pretty good scorers in junior/college and almost all of them have an edge to their game.

Vail is a vanilla prospect who looks more like a career minor leaguer. The pick was understandable as his physical tools were projectable but he hasn't improved them and remains way too passive on the ice. It will take a personal revelation on his part to completely change the way he approaches the game to give him any shot at making it to the NHL.
I got a good bit of heat when I had him low down in my rankings at the start of last season, he didn't do anything to change my opinion of him and in fact I started to go the other way as he has never impressed with me with his style. Looks like he will need a strong season to get a contract.

When ranking CHL prospects I often think back to Duncan Milroy who was a high 2nd round pick. After that great playoff run he had I thought he could turn into something solid for us, but after watching him in the AHL, I grew concerned over his lack of physical game and the fact that he shied away from the dirty areas in the O zone. Ranking junior aged prospects can be very tough as you just never know how they are going to translate at the next level but some fans won't be happy when they a good CHL prospect ranked lower then they feel should be but sometimes they aren't taking into consideration how said prospects game will translate.

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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I definitely agree on Holland as well but Thrower has enough jam to his game that he can still pan out if he gets his head screwed on straight. I do like the idea of moving him to the wing but overall I am not crazy about his prospects at this point in time.
I like Holland more then Vail since Holland at least shows one plus to plus plus skill and that's his passing game. If he ever fills out and gets a lot stronger who knows, he might turn into something. I admit to liking Thrower more then most around here, one of the main reasons I like him is that very fact that he brings jam to go with decent puck skills. I actually think his game could translate well to the AHL as he seems to have no problem getting his nose dirty.

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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
So true, especially the bolded part.

People tend to overestimated the list of 20-25 better prospects of a team. The truth is, no more than 4 or 5 of them, if lucky, will have a certain impact on a NHL team, and the other 4-10 will be spare parts or highly replaceable players. The rest will be career AHLer, European leagues players, or simply busts. And my numbers here are generous. In average around the NHL, the real numbers should be more like 1-3 "impact" players + 2-5 "spare parts".

In fact, it's almost mathematical. With the NHL vets + other rookies drafted the years after, there is simply no room for all these players/prospects. People reed too much at what is happening to a player like Vail who was a late draft pick. Sending him back to junior is just routine.
that's a good point, the Habs have a ton of interesting prospects but the fact is that most won't do much of anything in the NHL for the Habs. In the end it's almost pointless to even rank the prospects since it's so difficult to guess how an 18/19 year old will pan out after a couple seasons in the CHL then a couple more in the AHL.

I would say that there is legit concern over being sent back to the OHL. Of course he was headed there, but after being sent home early from Team USA's camp and now from the Habs, it's not the way you want to see him starting the new season. But since he's playing for a contract, hopefully he gets the message now and works hard all season long.

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09-11-2013, 10:08 AM
  #602
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
I admit to liking Thrower more then most around here, one of the main reasons I like him is that very fact that he brings jam to go with decent puck skills. I actually think his game could translate well to the AHL as he seems to have no problem getting his nose dirty.
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I definitely agree on Holland as well but Thrower has enough jam to his game that he can still pan out if he gets his head screwed on straight. I do like the idea of moving him to the wing but overall I am not crazy about his prospects at this point in time.
I have no problem pegging Thrower's "ceiling" somewhere similar to Pateryn: a solid AHLer who might see "cups of coffee", filling in for injuries if things go badly. I just think, as I see the case with Pateryn, that any GM actively trying to put together a competitive roster finds a way to get better players to keep ahead of him on the NHL depth chart. And in Montreal there's no shortage of players to choose from - even on the sometimes harder to fill right side of the D.

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09-11-2013, 10:33 AM
  #603
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Originally Posted by durojean View Post
That's basically why they do have a rookie camp. It's to punish them who don't deserve to be in tge training camp while giving them the learning exerience they could grt from the main camp.
In the rookie camp you are with other prospects, in the main camp you are with NHLers. If you want them to learn what it takes to be an NHL player then being with NHL players will help way more than being with prospects.

I don't remember the last time a player was "punished" by not being inviting him to camp like that.

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09-11-2013, 04:53 PM
  #604
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
In the rookie camp you are with other prospects, in the main camp you are with NHLers. If you want them to learn what it takes to be an NHL player then being with NHL players will help way more than being with prospects.

I don't remember the last time a player was "punished" by not being inviting him to camp like that.
you can only have so many players at the main camp.

so by your logic we should have all the players FURTHEST away from being NHL hopefuls while all the players who are more likely to make it and actually impressed at the rookie camp get sent back to their junior teams.

Man you're stubborn, hahaha.

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09-11-2013, 04:59 PM
  #605
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
I have no problem pegging Thrower's "ceiling" somewhere similar to Pateryn: a solid AHLer who might see "cups of coffee", filling in for injuries if things go badly. I just think, as I see the case with Pateryn, that any GM actively trying to put together a competitive roster finds a way to get better players to keep ahead of him on the NHL depth chart. And in Montreal there's no shortage of players to choose from - even on the sometimes harder to fill right side of the D.
Agreed on all counts, except that I believe Pateryn can (as in, has room to) improve up to a quality NHL shutdown defender. But I get your drift.

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09-11-2013, 05:03 PM
  #606
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