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Champions Hockey League + Victoria Cup revival

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09-10-2013, 12:43 AM
  #1
Mory Schneideur*
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Champions Hockey League + Victoria Cup revival

Any news on the Champions Hockey League coming back? How about the Victoria Cup?

I have an interesting idea to make the tournaments more meaningful while involving the NHL in a meaningful way without cheapening the league or devaluing the Stanley Cup. Both tourneys would be jointly run by the NHL & IIHF.

Here goes:

Champions League: Have the Champions HL and run it every year, EUFA style. The way it was formatted before wasn't bad, but market it more to North America and make it the de facto European club championship. I would like to see the NHL involved thru cross promotion in NA and on NHL sites and networks.

Victoria Cup: Bring the Victoria Cup back, expand it into a mini-tourney and combine it with NHL European Premier Openers. Have a different large European city host the VC every year, make it a premier event with a championship feel, televised all over Europe and in North America. Give it the "winter classic" treatment & make it special. Before the VC was a meaningless tourney, but here's a way to make it meaningful and interesting for both sides of the globe. Have the Stanley Cup runner up and the Eastern/Western Conference finals losers, 3 top NHL teams, go to Europe during the NHL preseason to play some preseason games against each other, some exhibition games & more importantly, participate in the revamped Victoria Cup Tournament. Match the 3 NHL teams against the top 3 winners of the Champions League by having the SCF loser play the Champions League winner for the Victoria Cup, and match up the other 2 NHL teams against the #2 & #3 Champions League teams. The NHL teams then continue onto the NHL European Premier Openers like they have done in the past, putting on a show for European fans by playing a few regular season games. NHL teams get promoted to european fans and NA fans get to see Europe's best.

Benefits: Great way to start the NHL season in an exciting way! You give the NHL runner ups a chance to redeem themselves and represent their team/league in a meaningful mini-tourney to start the season. Plenty of exposure for NHL teams to European fans and vice versa for the European teams. Stanley Cup isn't devalued and is still the de facto top hockey trophy since winner is not involved. Meaningful competition due to top NHL teams facing off against top Euro teams instead of random NHL teams participating. Bragging right for winners!

Bonus Topic: Since we are on the topic of EUFA style tournaments, I would love to see the World Cup of Hockey return and to be played every 4 years, 2 years apart from Olympic competition, that way every 2 years we have a meaningful international competition featuring NHL players and top world players. The NHL could run the WC since the IIHF would run the Olympics. Would love to see countries host or co-host the World Cup to make it an event. Have it in places like England, Germany, Sweden, Poland, Ukraine, Canada, United States etc.

Any thoughts, opinions or contributions to these ideas?

Edit: KHL would be involved in the Champions League. Champs League Trophy & Victoria Cup would be treated as secondary trophies, complements to domestic trophies such as Stanley Cup & Gregarian Cup, not supersede them. It would be in the spirit of friendly competition and a way to show the world that not only are you the best team in your league, but possible best in the world. Stanley Cup Champ would be excluded to keep the importance of that winner intact, the Stanley Cup runner-up would be playing in the Victoria Cup. Kind of like a consolation prize and a chance at redemption.


Last edited by Mory Schneideur*: 09-10-2013 at 05:12 PM.
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09-10-2013, 10:59 AM
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Darth Yoda
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If the KHL is not involved it would a joke. I dont know if they are really interested in doing some final game/games against the current CL champion either, after players have partied like crazy and wants to play golf. Perhaps as a friendly series the next season, but by then the teams are not the same as when they won. I personally believe that the KHL is the future of top hockey in Europe, and a possible CL would have to take a backseat in prestige. "The Best of the Rest".

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09-10-2013, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
If the KHL is not involved it would a joke. I dont know if they are really interested in doing some final game/games against the current CL champion either, after players have partied like crazy and wants to play golf. Perhaps as a friendly series the next season, but by then the teams are not the same as when they won. I personally believe that the KHL is the future of top hockey in Europe, and a possible CL would have to take a backseat in prestige. "The Best of the Rest".
I have to agree with you, especially bold parts.

@Johnyrocket

Nice idea, but unreal. You can not organise something in Europe without KHL. Why do you want to play against winner or so of Champions League (aka ET)??? Why not Gagarin Cup champion, or good KHL team at least?? Of course, if you want quality... not only friendly game.

As I understand it, ET/Champions League markets itself as 3rd tier hockey league. Look at Farjestad vs AHL AS. Farjestad is "engine of ET", the same role as SKA has in KHL.... leader of competition/ideas of league etc. Swedes/ET chose to play against AHL.. why do you want them to play against NHL???

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09-10-2013, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
If the KHL is not involved it would a joke. I dont know if they are really interested in doing some final game/games against the current CL champion either, after players have partied like crazy and wants to play golf. Perhaps as a friendly series the next season, but by then the teams are not the same as when they won. I personally believe that the KHL is the future of top hockey in Europe, and a possible CL would have to take a backseat in prestige. "The Best of the Rest".
Does it even matter? The KHL is not that great anyways.

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09-10-2013, 12:06 PM
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Darth Yoda
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Does it even matter? The KHL is not that great anyways.
Yeah, the league does not contain many world class players what-so-ever. One has to wonder though if the NHL has any interest in sedning their reigning champion to something like this. They dodged that many times during the Cold War, and are obviously on a mission to strenghten their place in the hockey world on the cost of even the WHC.

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09-10-2013, 01:22 PM
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You give the NHL runner ups a chance to redeem themselves and represent their team/league in a meaningful mini-tourney to start the season.
That is the wrong word to apply to your idea, I'm afraid. As preseason games, the players will definitely be in "take it easy" mode, not "game on" mode. Owners will also be reluctant to risk injuries to their top players on such games and may just sit them out (wasn't there one of the NHL/Euro exhibition games where some Euro players took runs at NHL guys to 'make a name' for themselves?).

I just don't see how you make the players give a damn about these kind of tournaments, or soothe the teams' fears about possible injuries. The Olympics only work because they're the friggin Olympics. Everything else is going to feel like second fiddle to many if not most NHL players & owners.

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09-10-2013, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
Yeah, the league does not contain many world class players what-so-ever. One has to wonder though if the NHL has any interest in sedning their reigning champion to something like this. They dodged that many times during the Cold War, and are obviously on a mission to strenghten their place in the hockey world on the cost of even the WHC.
Define "world class player". Compare the rosters to an NHL-roster and it's not impressive at all. The NHL is simply on a different level than any other league and if their team would take a tournament like this seriously, they would win it easily.

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09-10-2013, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by optimus2861 View Post
That is the wrong word to apply to your idea, I'm afraid. As preseason games, the players will definitely be in "take it easy" mode, not "game on" mode. Owners will also be reluctant to risk injuries to their top players on such games and may just sit them out (wasn't there one of the NHL/Euro exhibition games where some Euro players took runs at NHL guys to 'make a name' for themselves?).

I just don't see how you make the players give a damn about these kind of tournaments, or soothe the teams' fears about possible injuries. The Olympics only work because they're the friggin Olympics. Everything else is going to feel like second fiddle to many if not most NHL players & owners.
money, prize money... very easy. There is only one league in Europe which can offer it - KHL.

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09-10-2013, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
money, prize money... very easy. There is only one league in Europe which can offer it - KHL.
I suspect the NHL would look very unfavorably on KHL owners paying prize money to NHL-contracted players (especially in the kind of amounts that would be needed to get NHL players' attention). Would such a thing even be permitted under an NHL standard player contract?

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09-10-2013, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by optimus2861 View Post
I suspect the NHL would look very unfavorably on KHL owners paying prize money to NHL-contracted players (especially in the kind of amounts that would be needed to get NHL players' attention). Would such a thing even be permitted under an NHL standard player contract?
I dont see any reason why should KHL pay prize money to NHL-contracted players. I dont see any reason why should KHL pay for it to NHL... there can be sponsors paying both leagues/clubs.

Nevermind, you asked, I answered, you dont accept it, I am OK with it.

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09-10-2013, 03:44 PM
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Darth Yoda
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Originally Posted by Huffman View Post
Define "world class player". Compare the rosters to an NHL-roster and it's not impressive at all. The NHL is simply on a different level than any other league and if their team would take a tournament like this seriously, they would win it easily.
I was just replying to your post where you claimed that the "KHL is not that great anyway". I think that was the wrong choice of words although you where obviously thinking about if they simply deserves to play such a game or series or not. On big ice there is a lot of players there on NHL-level, let alone guys like Kovalchuk and Radulov, although the league as a whole obviously is not on NHL level. But the NHL has nothing to be gained from this, their reigning champion risking losing sometimes and even if it would just be during the pre-season the next season it would not look good.

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09-10-2013, 04:52 PM
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Mory Schneideur*
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
If the KHL is not involved it would a joke. I dont know if they are really interested in doing some final game/games against the current CL champion either, after players have partied like crazy and wants to play golf. Perhaps as a friendly series the next season, but by then the teams are not the same as when they won. I personally believe that the KHL is the future of top hockey in Europe, and a possible CL would have to take a backseat in prestige. "The Best of the Rest".
KHL would be involved. I believe they were involved in the Champions League that folded 2 seasons ago. I wouldn't do this without KHL being involved.

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09-10-2013, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by optimus2861 View Post
That is the wrong word to apply to your idea, I'm afraid. As preseason games, the players will definitely be in "take it easy" mode, not "game on" mode. Owners will also be reluctant to risk injuries to their top players on such games and may just sit them out (wasn't there one of the NHL/Euro exhibition games where some Euro players took runs at NHL guys to 'make a name' for themselves?).

I just don't see how you make the players give a damn about these kind of tournaments, or soothe the teams' fears about possible injuries. The Olympics only work because they're the friggin Olympics. Everything else is going to feel like second fiddle to many if not most NHL players & owners.
I just want to start by saying my ideas are just slight modifications of events that were already in place. if you guys arent familiar with Champions Hockey League, Victoria Cup & NHL Euro Premier, google it. in theory great ideas but marketed and executed poorly. my idea sinply combines the 3 into one flowing series of events with more meaning behind them.

It would be meaningful too. Not like a Stanley Cup, but the NHL team (Stanley Cup Finals loser) would play the Champions League winner for the Victoria Cup. This would be a sort of redemption for the NHL team, a fresh start on a new season after having lost in the Stanley Cup Finals & a way to prove they are a great team by beating Europe/KHL's best (Champions League winner).

I wouldn't have a problem with NHL teams sitting their stars out & NHL teams be in preseason mode since it is the preseason. However if the NHL teams are starting the season in Europe too, I'm sure they will try to ice their A squad to get them prepared for the start of the NHL season. By offering a prize, making the Victoria Cup a big deal to start off the NHL season & present it as an event like the Wonter Classic, and by having the NHL premier start the season in Europe, the players would have an incentive to perform since the world spotlight is on them & the season is starting.

I think the main concern with the previous Victoria Cup was marketing. It was presented as a 3rd rate event where most people to this day, even hardcore hockey fans, have no idea what it was. Also they cheapened the whole thing by having the CL winner playing a random NHL team like the Rangers. This is an insult to the CL winner and the NHL too, as the NHL team probably treats it as a meaningless joke. Having the SCF loser play the CL winner to open the NHL season with the spotlight on would solve this problem and make it a real game & a real event.

I understand there are worries of euro players going after NHL players, but some kind of endowment should be in place to avoid cheap shots and just have some good clean & competitive hockey. Also, if an NHL team is worried about a European team doing damage to its players than I would worry deeply about that team when they face off against NHL competition.

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09-11-2013, 01:51 AM
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KHL would be involved. I believe they were involved in the Champions League that folded 2 seasons ago. I wouldn't do this without KHL being involved.
I agree with you. I would like to say that Champions League in 2008 and new Champions League (whatever) which starts next season are different things. This 2008 edition was ruled by IIHF, the new one will be ruled by KHL.

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09-11-2013, 08:07 AM
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What about minor pro leagues in North America? Are they up to par with leagues in Europe?
Seem more realistic to get these leagues to participate with teams in a Victoria Cup of sorts where there's a series of games played between winners of each league, perhaps.

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09-11-2013, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Johnyrocket View Post
Not like a Stanley Cup, but the NHL team (Stanley Cup Finals loser) would play the Champions League winner for the Victoria Cup. This would be a sort of redemption for the NHL team, a fresh start on a new season after having lost in the Stanley Cup Finals & a way to prove they are a great team by beating Europe/KHL's best (Champions League winner).
I get what you're saying.. I just don't think the NHL team in question would care. Redemption for an NHL team that just lost in a Stanley Cup final isn't winning an exhibition tournament in Europe. It's getting back to the Stanley Cup final and winning it this time.

North American professional hockey culture places the Stanley Cup as the sport's Holy Grail. Every other hockey competition on the planet, with the possible exception of the Olympics, pales in comparison to it. You tell a team that's just lost the Stanley Cup that they can redeem themselves by going to Europe and you'll get blank stares in response, maybe a few dismissive snorts. You can't change that by making a marketing push.

I guess I should disclaim that: some players will care, the ones that will always go to the World Championships if their team misses or is eliminated from the playoffs. That's a distinct minority of players though.

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09-11-2013, 10:17 AM
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Mory Schneideur*
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Just found an article and it seems the NHL is both bringing back the World Cup & it's exploring participating in a "Champions Cup" (I like the sound if that, Champions Cup). So for those of you saying NHL doesn't care or send AHL teams (bad idea if you ask me), seems the NHL thinks the total opposite and wants to be in on something like this

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on-...urney-for-2016

I'll post more links as I come across them.

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09-11-2013, 10:18 AM
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Here's another one with apparent plans being leaked.

http://nhl.si.com/2013/09/10/world-c...revenue-plans/


But here’s the fun stuff: “An increased presence in Europe, with more regular-season NHL games overseas, the return of the World Cup of Hockey — which, in 1996 and 2004, featured eight top national teams in a tournament in August — and plans for a Champions Cup competition between top European and NHL clubs.”

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09-11-2013, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Johnyrocket View Post
Just found an article and it seems the NHL is both bringing back the World Cup & it's exploring participating in a "Champions Cup" (I like the sound if that, Champions Cup). So for those of you saying NHL doesn't care or send AHL teams (bad idea if you ask me), seems the NHL thinks the total opposite and wants to be in on something like this

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on-...urney-for-2016

I'll post more links as I come across them.
If the NHL is seriously contemplating a Champions Cup, hell, I'd welcome the return of the World Cup, albeit reluctantly.
You give a little, you get a little.

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09-11-2013, 12:30 PM
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Yeah, the league does not contain many world class players what-so-ever.
It doesn't. Why was that faceplam worthy? Just because they got Kovalchuk now does not mean it's a league with a lot of superstars.

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09-11-2013, 12:52 PM
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It doesn't. Why was that faceplam worthy? Just because they got Kovalchuk now does not mean it's a league with a lot of superstars.
Tell us how many KHL games have you seen? I hope, at least 2 per day. If you want to judge, you need to know league.

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09-11-2013, 12:57 PM
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Tell us how many KHL games have you seen? I hope, at least 2 per day. If you want to judge, you need to know league.
What does that have to do with it? Would I not be able to say Crosby and Ovechkin are great players if I did not follow Pittsburgh and Washington? How many SHL games do you watch? I hope at least 2 a day, because you seem to want to discuss that league a lot, so you need to know the league.

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09-11-2013, 02:26 PM
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Darth Yoda
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It doesn't. Why was that faceplam worthy? Just because they got Kovalchuk now does not mean it's a league with a lot of superstars.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1&postcount=11

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09-11-2013, 02:30 PM
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Tell us how many KHL games have you seen? I hope, at least 2 per day. If you want to judge, you need to know league.
Watching games/players is not required at HFBoards.

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10-16-2013, 10:05 PM
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Mory Schneideur*
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Which format would you guys like to see for the Victoria Cup? Any suggestions?

-ECC or Champions League champion vs Stanley Cup winner
-A mini-tourney of 6-12 teams, half from NHL half from ECC/Champions League?

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