HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Prospects
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Prospects Discuss hockey prospects from all over the world and the NHL Draft.

ESPN top 100 prospects (paywall)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-12-2013, 11:15 AM
  #101
Jacko95
Registered User
 
Jacko95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Country: Germany
Posts: 2,173
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
The fact that Clenending, Petrovic, Lazar and Wilson are not on the list, a top 100 prospects list, is pretty bad. 2 of the following could make their opening night rosters (yet somehow that doesnt qualify them as a top 100 prospect? I cannot see how players could be better then those making the leap), one could push for call up duty while the other was a recently top 20 draft pick.
Are you serious? Just because you are NHL ready doesn't make you a top100 list. Otherwise Tampa must have: Johnson, Panik, Drouin, Palat, Gudas, Barberio, Brown and Sustr just because they are NHL ready and have all top6/ top4 upside. Along with most likely Kucherov, Naemstnikov, Vasilevskiy, Erne and Koekkoek due to their talent level.

So this would be 13 prospects just from Tampa. And that is just plain simple stupid. NHL readiness is IMO a really really small factor in a top100.

In reality (only) 9 of those guys above will be on the list IMO (I have not seen the list), but knowing his evaluation of our prospects Panik, Gudas, Brown and Palat will not be on the list, the rest will.

So calm down and accept that different people will always have different opinion. And in general I really like Coreys work, as he never goes with the consensus, but with his own opinion. And looking back at drafts a few years ago if he would ran a team draft he would have been pretty successful (for example pretty much everybody of his 2011 top30 is panning out quit nicely and non of them as anything close to bust written over them yet).
A lot of teams would have been really really proud if he would have ran their 2011 draft, because based on his list he would have drafted quit a lot of good players whereever he picked, because he was a lot higher on some players than others that have made huge steps. Eventhough he missed on some others a little bit.

@Corey: I would really appreciate if you could share your thoughts on Alex Killorn. I know he is no longer eligebile for your list, but IMO he has already reached your protjection for him as a solid top6 forward. So I would really like to know what you think he has of a ceiling now or if you say he is not the top6 forward yet I am making him to be and you stay with your projection.
And it would also be really nice, if you could rank him within the Lightning prospects. I know your list of them from this summer so a number would be enough.

Jacko95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2013, 12:09 PM
  #102
madmike77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,826
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
Pretty sure someone on CalgaryPuck is writing a anti-Canuck manifesto about this as we speak.
They had Monahan over both of them so I doubt it. The list was very friendly to this year's draft class.

madmike77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2013, 12:31 PM
  #103
Howard35
Registered User
 
Howard35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 21,269
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Howard35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
What is the problem with having William Karlsson significantly ahead of Tom Wilson? It looks like Wilson had a good season in juniors, but Karlsson won the rookie of the year award in the Swedish Elite league playing against men. Just looking at the company that puts him in, that's certainly a more remarkable accomplishment than Wilson's respectable numbers at the junior level.
And like the list, that's your opinion. I would simply just disagree. He also didnt look bad in the playoffs. That speaks pretty high him.

Howard35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2013, 12:38 PM
  #104
Vipers31
Moderator
Advanced Stagnostic
 
Vipers31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bergisch Gladbach
Country: Germany
Posts: 11,802
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
And like the list, that's your opinion. I would simply just disagree. He also didnt look bad in the playoffs. That speaks pretty high him.
I understand disagreeing entirely. I personally didn't even mean to disagree with your opinion, in itself, because I haven't seen enough of Wilson or Karlsson himself, for that matter, to really have a valuable opinion either way. Purely objectively, I do think most would see winning SHL's rookie of the year as a bigger accomplishment. Other than that, I really couldn't really argue against personal preferences. I was just a bit surprised to see the high estimate of Karlsson compared to Wilson being an anchor point for critique. Personally ranking them differently seems entirely fair, as well.

Vipers31 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2013, 12:40 PM
  #105
Howard35
Registered User
 
Howard35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 21,269
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Howard35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey Pronman View Post
I'm not sure how you can judge the information I'm using when outside the top 25 profiles no information was provided. Ranking and information gathering are two separate processes.

Clendening, Petrovic and Lazar are all mentioned in the column.

I don't think Petrovic and Wilson being close to or at NHL ready is an argument they must be locks as Top 100 prospects. Korbianian Holzer may be in the NHL as well but he's not a top 250 prospect to me.
That just doesnt seem logical. Why would research gathering and ranking be seperated? You're supposed to use what you find and use it towards your ranking. If player A is better, clearly, then player B when you do research, don't take player A ahead of him.

Mentions in a top 100 list to me is just crap. The "Just missing the cut" list could be 20-30 guys.

Yet there's a difference here you're failing to realize. Holzer, in your example, is almost 5 years older than a guy like Wilson and Petrovic. All the people on your list for the most part are only 1-2 maybe 3 years in seperation but not realyl 4,5+ years. He might be a prospect and be NHL ready but he's got limited potential and upside, something that is a trait used to make a list like this.

Sorry but guys like Petrovic and Wilson are superior players then some of the ones on the list. Everyone has their opinions, again, i like your effort but i just dont agree with the logic. To me, it makes no sense.

Howard35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2013, 12:40 PM
  #106
Wisp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,046
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FishManSam View Post
Do you mind helping a Leafs fan with who's on the list.
There's no Leafs on the list. They've already all busted.

edit: Morgan Reilly is in the top 20.

Wisp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2013, 12:42 PM
  #107
Howard35
Registered User
 
Howard35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 21,269
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Howard35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
I understand disagreeing entirely. I personally didn't even mean to disagree with your opinion, in itself, because I haven't seen enough of Wilson or Karlsson himself, for that matter, to really have a valuable opinion either way. Purely objectively, I do think most would see winning SHL's rookie of the year as a bigger accomplishment. Other than that, I really couldn't really argue against personal preferences. I was just a bit surprised to see the high estimate of Karlsson compared to Wilson being an anchor point for critique. Personally ranking them differently seems entirely fair, as well.
No worries. I just think Karlsson @ 24 is just way too high.. Wilson wasnt necessarily an anchor point for critique, it was just a random player that i saw missing from the list who i'd put ahead of a guy like Karlsson.

Howard35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2013, 12:46 PM
  #108
Vipers31
Moderator
Advanced Stagnostic
 
Vipers31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bergisch Gladbach
Country: Germany
Posts: 11,802
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
No worries. I just think Karlsson @ 24 is just way too high.. Wilson wasnt necessarily an anchor point for critique, it was just a random player that i saw missing from the list who i'd put ahead of a guy like Karlsson.
"A guy like Karlsson"...

No worries were had. I can certainly see enough to like about Wilson to not feel outraged about anyone's dissent.

Vipers31 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2013, 02:49 PM
  #109
StringerBell
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey Pronman View Post
He's mentioned.



The scouting based information I get from talking to scouts is very important. First hand evaluations from guys who watch a player upwards of 20 times in a season is extremely valuable. However due to the subjective nature of scouting, everyone in the business can take the very same evaluation data, and weigh the particulars of it differently. This is why you can go around a room of scouts who have evaluated draft prospect X almost identically, but one has him 15th, another 25th, another 50th.

Thus I talk to scouts for information, but the ranking process is done solely on my own. I'm pretty confident in my info and process, although in terms of less confidence, the players over in Europe will always be a bit of a challenge to get viewings so I lean on some overseas sources. Klefbom and Jarnkrok are good examples.
Very cool how you come here and answer questions like this. Much appreciated.

StringerBell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2013, 02:55 PM
  #110
Bourne Endeavor
Moderator
HFBoards: Night's Watch
 
Bourne Endeavor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,243
vCash: 500
I remain curious why Horvat is rather low.

Bourne Endeavor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2013, 03:16 PM
  #111
StringerBell
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
I remain curious why Horvat is rather low.
He's not, really. 28 seems fair enough.

StringerBell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2013, 03:21 PM
  #112
tucker3434
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 5,395
vCash: 500
Corey, I'd like to hear your take on Duncan Siemens. I know you weren't a fan of that pick at the time of the '11 draft. Was he even in consideration for this list? Has your view of him worsened since the draft or is he just the player you expected him to be (mediocre 2nd paring to good 3rd pairing).

tucker3434 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2013, 03:38 PM
  #113
Erikfromfin
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,523
vCash: 500
anyone can hint where they have Teräväinen ranked at?

Erikfromfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2013, 03:49 PM
  #114
Maverick41
Registered User
 
Maverick41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Germany
Country: Germany
Posts: 1,350
vCash: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erikfromfin View Post
anyone can hint where they have Teräväinen ranked at?
According to this link he's at #21.

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/blac...ts-for-2013-14

Maverick41 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2013, 05:25 PM
  #115
Flair Hay
Registered User
 
Flair Hay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,447
vCash: 400
I read the list a couple days ago and it was pretty legit. Lol at the meatheads who were kind enough to proudlybash ESPN without reading the column. It's not some piece of junk article. I have Insider mainly as a fantasy tool. But as was said earlier espn does have the odd stellar hockey article you don't find in Candian Tabloids that are dumbed down to cliches.

Corey, if you could, what do you think Mark Scheifele's single best quality would be if you had to pick one? It's just a big question mark for Jets fans this year...

And I'd sound cool at work tomorrow. Thanks.

Flair Hay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2013, 06:12 PM
  #116
Corey Pronman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 213
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacko95 View Post

@Corey: I would really appreciate if you could share your thoughts on Alex Killorn. I know he is no longer eligebile for your list, but IMO he has already reached your protjection for him as a solid top6 forward. So I would really like to know what you think he has of a ceiling now or if you say he is not the top6 forward yet I am making him to be and you stay with your projection.
And it would also be really nice, if you could rank him within the Lightning prospects. I know your list of them from this summer so a number would be enough.
Killorn's an interesting case. He did better in the AHL (between Norfolk and Syracuse) than I thought he'd do and then better in the NHL than I thought even considering his improvements in the AHL. He's really grown as a player offensively in all components and with his size and skill I see a quality top six player for a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tucker3434 View Post
Corey, I'd like to hear your take on Duncan Siemens. I know you weren't a fan of that pick at the time of the '11 draft. Was he even in consideration for this list? Has your view of him worsened since the draft or is he just the player you expected him to be (mediocre 2nd paring to good 3rd pairing).
I'm somewhat more bullish on Duncan since his draft year. He was quite good this past season in the WHL. That being said he isn't going to be much of an offense guy but he could be a #4 D who plays on the PK. Very good skater, big, tough, makes defensive stops, has improved his reads. He just really lacks skill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhay1987 View Post
I read the list a couple days ago and it was pretty legit. Lol at the meatheads who were kind enough to proudlybash ESPN without reading the column. It's not some piece of junk article. I have Insider mainly as a fantasy tool. But as was said earlier espn does have the odd stellar hockey article you don't find in Candian Tabloids that are dumbed down to cliches.

Corey, if you could, what do you think Mark Scheifele's single best quality would be if you had to pick one? It's just a big question mark for Jets fans this year...

And I'd sound cool at work tomorrow. Thanks.
Hockey sense and I'd say it's his clear best trait. Will make his living as a playmaker. This opinion is shared by numerous NHL scouts I've talked to if you want to sound cooler than hearing it from some media dude.

Corey Pronman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2013, 06:31 PM
  #117
ironrhcp
Registered User
 
ironrhcp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Markham Ont
Country: Canada
Posts: 135
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by #57 View Post
Drouin is indeed the #1 prospect in the world right now.
McDavid Tho

ironrhcp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2013, 06:43 PM
  #118
SaintMorose
Registered User
 
SaintMorose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,062
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
I remain curious why Horvat is rather low.
From what it looks like the list is based more towards the last time they played meaningful hockey so things like Shinkaruk vs Horvat look more akin to Corey's pre-draft
http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1549 where he though Hunter should go 9,10, or 14.

Instead of post draft where we saw Horvat picked ~15 spots higher and then looking like the better player thus far on the same ice in Canucks prospect camp which I think is where alot of people are being caught off guard with his ranking as a top 25 prospect.

SaintMorose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-14-2013, 09:03 AM
  #119
tony d
Honey Nut Cheerios
 
tony d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Behind A Tree
Country: Canada
Posts: 37,070
vCash: 500
Don't see what's wrong with Drouin at #1. The guy's going to be a great player. He probably wouldn't be #1 on my list but he'd be pretty darn close to it.

__________________
tony d is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-14-2013, 10:19 AM
  #120
tucker3434
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 5,395
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Don't see what's wrong with Drouin at #1. The guy's going to be a great player. He probably wouldn't be #1 on my list but he'd be pretty darn close to it.
My list would have mackinnon at #1 but I'm probably biased. Drouin is one of the guys I don't have a problem being there. If it was trouba, this board would explode.

tucker3434 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-14-2013, 11:32 AM
  #121
Henderson19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 590
vCash: 500
FWIW, ESPN offers a free 30-day trial. You have to put in your CC or PP info, but the charge is $0. Anyone can view the list themselves that way.

Props to Corey again for his hard work. Always look forward to it.

Leafs are:

#15 - Rielly

Of minor note, some 'older' players many of us might still consider prospects are excluded from his list. It seems to focus on truer 'prospects,' passing over guys once they start to get meaningful NHL exposure. So, for example, Yakupov, Galchenyuk, Huberdeau, Hamilton do not appear at all. Great players, but beyond prospect status for this particular list.

Oh, and for the earlier question, Kucherov is #56.

Henderson19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-14-2013, 01:10 PM
  #122
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 9,711
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey Pronman View Post
Hockey sense and I'd say it's his clear best trait. Will make his living as a playmaker. This opinion is shared by numerous NHL scouts I've talked to if you want to sound cooler than hearing it from some media dude.
Thanks for the perspective on Scheifele. The other attribute that I think is impressive about Scheifele is his attitude and work ethic. By all reports he's a wonderful young man, and the vets really like him (as do the coaches and management).

As an update, at camp he is working with Kane and Setoguchi, two wingers that shoot well and look to score.

Those of us that have observed Scheifele in camp are impressed with his substantial improvement in skating, and particularly acceleration.

He doesn't look out of place at this stage, and apparently is going to be given substantial opportunities to be an offensive play maker with the Jets this year.

Whileee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-14-2013, 07:56 PM
  #123
Minister of Offence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 23,933
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushwick Bill View Post
I don't see what's wrong with that, you can make a pretty good case for Drouin being the #1 prospect based on what he's accomplished so far. That kid is amazing to watch.
I'd say he's a special prospect.

And Pronman will always lean towards puck skills and possession qualities. And many teams are starting to lean this way as well.

Some of you need to open your minds a little bit, different opinions are good.

Minister of Offence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-14-2013, 09:36 PM
  #124
Wisp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,046
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henderson19 View Post
Of minor note, some 'older' players many of us might still consider prospects are excluded from his list. It seems to focus on truer 'prospects,' passing over guys once they start to get meaningful NHL exposure. So, for example, Yakupov, Galchenyuk, Huberdeau, Hamilton do not appear at all. Great players, but beyond prospect status for this particular list.
They're not on the list because they're graduated players, not prospects. The four players you listed stuck with their NHL clubs the entire NHL season.

Wisp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-14-2013, 10:09 PM
  #125
Drew311
Bustlander
 
Drew311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,192
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henderson19 View Post
FWIW, ESPN offers a free 30-day trial. You have to put in your CC or PP info, but the charge is $0. Anyone can view the list themselves that way.

Props to Corey again for his hard work. Always look forward to it.

Leafs are:

#15 - Rielly

Of minor note, some 'older' players many of us might still consider prospects are excluded from his list. It seems to focus on truer 'prospects,' passing over guys once they start to get meaningful NHL exposure. So, for example, Yakupov, Galchenyuk, Huberdeau, Hamilton do not appear at all. Great players, but beyond prospect status for this particular list.

Oh, and for the earlier question, Kucherov is #56.
Pretty hard to argue that Matt Finn and Josh Leivo aren't top 100 prospects.

Drew311 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:46 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.