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So what will our Top 6 be this season?

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Old
09-13-2013, 12:02 PM
  #101
Beukeboom Fan
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
I don't understand how you think Bickell is being gifted a top 6 role. Do you watch this team?
Just from my perspective - playing really well over a 23 game stretch doesn't change the fact that Bickell hasn't consistently peformed as a top 6 forward over any other stretch of his NHL career. He proved he could do it for most of 23 games, but then again guys like Joel Ward, Ruslan Fedetenko and John Druce all did the same in the past.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but Q's decision with Saad just boggles my mind, just the same way that the decision to try Kane at C did in 2012.

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09-13-2013, 12:03 PM
  #102
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Yup, people can keep second guessing the guy who has helped bring us 2 cups. He has no idea what he is doing. He may make mistakes, but he is quick to fix them if he feels they aren't working.

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09-13-2013, 12:07 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Point me to where I said he shouldn't be given a look?

And Q never said he wouldn't be given a look either. It's Day 2 or 3 of camp, give it time. There are still some pre-season games to be played.

Just because Q thinks he has a more reliable and bigger player trying for the #2 spot, doesn't mean Pirri can't make it as #3C or W or even show more than Saad as #2C.
Just from my perspective though - the "Saad at C" seems like a desperation long-shot move that could negatively impact his ability to develop, and seems to be a direct result of not giving Pirri a chance. Just seems like a desperation move before even getting a chance to see what Pirri could do at the NHL level.

And maybe myself and the people expressing concern about the decision are all a bunch of drama queens jumping to conclussions before camp even started. It just seems like a really shortsighted decision.

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09-13-2013, 12:09 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Just from my perspective though - the "Saad at C" seems like a desperation long-shot move that could negatively impact his ability to develop, and seems to be a direct result of not giving Pirri a chance. Just seems like a desperation move before even getting a chance to see what Pirri could do at the NHL level.

And maybe myself and the people expressing concern about the decision are all a bunch of drama queens jumping to conclussions before camp even started. It just seems like a really shortsighted decision.
You're probably right about that.

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09-13-2013, 12:13 PM
  #105
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I think it's a pointless endeavor to put Saad at center. Q can do no wrong though so...

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09-13-2013, 12:14 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Yup, people can keep second guessing the guy who has helped bring us 2 cups. He has no idea what he is doing. He may make mistakes, but he is quick to fix them if he feels they aren't working.
The board would be pretty boring if we weren't able to offering a differing opinion from anything the organization did? Right? But, the organization collectively has won two Cups, so they must know what they're doing, and we're not smart enough to have an opinion?

Can you remind me how long did Kane play center? How long did Brunette get icetime for the team? How come the Hawks PP is so pitiful considering the amount of offensive talent on the team? All of those things are areas that Q is responsible for, and I wouldn't say that he was quick to fix them.

And I'm not saying that Q is 100% wrong with this decision. It just seems really odd to me to move a 2nd year player to a position he's never played before that has a LOT more responsibility on the ice before even seeing what the other guy, who has paid his dues and would appear to have the potential to fill the role, can give you. Maybe the Saad experimenet will last a week, and then he's back at wing. Here's hoping at least.

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09-13-2013, 01:44 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Yup, people can keep second guessing the guy who has helped bring us 2 cups. He has no idea what he is doing. He may make mistakes, but he is quick to fix them if he feels they aren't working.
Except when he's not.

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09-13-2013, 01:50 PM
  #108
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Mark Lazerus‏@MarkLazerus33s
Q says Pirri will see a lot of time in preseason. Says he needs to be more consistent and effective defensively. #Blackhawks

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09-13-2013, 01:51 PM
  #109
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Well that's a decent sign.

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09-13-2013, 02:00 PM
  #110
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Maybe Q does like Pirri and is just trying to light a fire under his ass (I don't really believe this, but I can hope).

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09-13-2013, 02:11 PM
  #111
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Maybe Q does like Pirri and is just trying to light a fire under his ass (I don't really believe this, but I can hope).
no i don't think that's it.

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09-13-2013, 02:16 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
I don't understand how you think Bickell is being gifted a top 6 role. Do you watch this team?
yeah, i watch the team thanks. he has never consistently played like a top 6 forward and all of a sudden he is going to start?

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09-13-2013, 02:22 PM
  #113
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no i don't think that's it.
And I would agree. It is unfortunate for sure.

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Old
09-13-2013, 02:40 PM
  #114
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I'd like to see

Saad-Toews-Kane
Sharp-Pirri-Hossa
Bickell-Shaw-Morin
Handzus-Kruger-Hayes

Pirri should get the #2 center spot to start the season IMO. We know what we have in Handzus, only possibly even more declined. He was awful for the Sharks in the regular season last year so I don't feel comfortable with him as more than a 4th line center at this point.

Since Hossa is out...maybe this

Bickell-Toews-Kane
Sharp-Pirri-Saad
Shaw-Kruger-Morin
Smith-Handzus-Hayes

Or something like that. No problem when everyone is healthy if Bickell is on the 3rd line. His salary should have no bearing on where or when he plays. If salary mattered, Huet would've started over Niemi in the '10 playoffs. Bickell produced incredibly on the 3rd line at even strength last season and had as many or more even strength points than guys like Zetterberg, Hossa, Carter, Benn, Lecavalier, Ribeiro, Backes, J. Staal, Thornton, Pavelski, Neal, Gaborik, Eriksson, Horton, ect. The difference is the power play where Bickell didn't play. So I don't agree with those that say Bickell needs to be in the top 6 because of his contract or how well he played. He had a great regular season as well and was a big reason the Hawks were the best team in the NHL during the regular season. That kind of production from the 3rd line is a huge asset to the Hawks.

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09-13-2013, 02:48 PM
  #115
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Q has his guys that he loves and his guys that he doesn't particularly care for and it is really, really hard to jump from one group to the other, for better or worse. Rooting hard for Pirri though; I really want to see him as 2C. Morin is another one that I don't think he cares for, rooting for him too.

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09-13-2013, 03:30 PM
  #116
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I am hoping for:
Bickell-Toews-Kane
Sharp-Pirri-Hossa

Pirri seems like a much better fit than Saad at the 2C spot to me, even if you ignore the fact that Saad hasn't played center before. Saad's game is largely redundant in the Hawks top 6 in my opinion. Toews, Sharp, and Hossa all play a very similar style of game to Saad. Where as Pirri would give the top 6 an additional set up man, which I believe is a much better fit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
Bickell produced incredibly on the 3rd line at even strength last season and had as many or more even strength points than guys like...
People also tend to forget that he had 17 goals and 37 points in his first full season with the Hawks. He had a horrible year in 11-12, but he was hardly the only underachiever on the Hawks that year and I am still more inclined to blame the coaches than the players for what happened back then.


Last edited by sketch22: 09-13-2013 at 03:40 PM. Reason: Didn't want to double post
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Old
09-13-2013, 09:38 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Kurtosis View Post
Maybe Q does like Pirri and is just trying to light a fire under his ass (I don't really believe this, but I can hope).
Or he's made an assessment that Pirri's defensive game isn't good enough to be given so many minutes, not some weird inflexible vendetta.

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09-13-2013, 10:01 PM
  #118
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The evidence is undeniable that Toews and Kane and pretty much anyone else is the most potent line the Hawks have. The one problem with having Toews and Kane on the same line is the two of them are the best playmakers on the team, which is the rationale for having them on separate lines.

One of the criticisms of switching Saad to center (in addition to the obvious one that he hasn't played center before) is that he is more shoot first guy than a playmaker and so are Hossa and Sharp, so the second line would have too many shooters and not enough playmaking.

So how about this for a top-6

Sharp-Toews-Hossa
Bickell-Saad-Kane

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Old
09-13-2013, 10:01 PM
  #119
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Or he's made an assessment that Pirri's defensive game isn't good enough to be given so many minutes, not some weird inflexible vendetta.
Yeah I totally said that. Thanks for the input.

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09-13-2013, 11:50 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by here come the View Post
Or he's made an assessment that Pirri's defensive game isn't good enough to be given so many minutes, not some weird inflexible vendetta.
The problem I have with that line of reasoning is that Q has made numerous exceptions for certain players during his time in Chicago. There have been players with similar (or worse) defensive issues who have gotten ample chances under Q. For whatever reason Q has an uneven history in regards to giving players (not just rookies) opportunities.

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09-14-2013, 07:11 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
The board would be pretty boring if we weren't able to offering a differing opinion from anything the organization did? Right? But, the organization collectively has won two Cups, so they must know what they're doing, and we're not smart enough to have an opinion?

Can you remind me how long did Kane play center? How long did Brunette get icetime for the team? How come the Hawks PP is so pitiful considering the amount of offensive talent on the team? All of those things are areas that Q is responsible for, and I wouldn't say that he was quick to fix them.

And I'm not saying that Q is 100% wrong with this decision. It just seems really odd to me to move a 2nd year player to a position he's never played before that has a LOT more responsibility on the ice before even seeing what the other guy, who has paid his dues and would appear to have the potential to fill the role, can give you. Maybe the Saad experimenet will last a week, and then he's back at wing. Here's hoping at least.
Yes, good post.... and there are numerous other examples which have been discussed plenty on this board. Q wouldn't be the first coach that looked good largely due to the talented team he has on the ice. To blindly agree with everything he (and Stan, and the org.) do is naiive, to put it mildly.

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09-14-2013, 09:06 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Morin is another one that I don't think he cares for, rooting for him too.
Morin is the opposite. Q has mentioned many times how much he likes his game when he was brought up. The fact that Morin is already skating with Shaw and Ben Smith (another guy who Q likes) speaks volumes.

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09-14-2013, 12:27 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
The board would be pretty boring if we weren't able to offering a differing opinion from anything the organization did? Right? But, the organization collectively has won two Cups, so they must know what they're doing, and we're not smart enough to have an opinion?

Can you remind me how long did Kane play center? How long did Brunette get icetime for the team? How come the Hawks PP is so pitiful considering the amount of offensive talent on the team? All of those things are areas that Q is responsible for, and I wouldn't say that he was quick to fix them.

And I'm not saying that Q is 100% wrong with this decision. It just seems really odd to me to move a 2nd year player to a position he's never played before that has a LOT more responsibility on the ice before even seeing what the other guy, who has paid his dues and would appear to have the potential to fill the role, can give you. Maybe the Saad experimenet will last a week, and then he's back at wing. Here's hoping at least.
Kane played better at C than he did at RW that year. Brunette got ice time until the meaningful games started, not that it mattered because that team was crap anyway. And there is more to blame than Q for the PP, at some point it is up to the players to execute, and they dont have any Dman with a decent point shot.

Q does make mistakes, like breaking up the Bick T & K line in the playoffs, among other things. But the majority of the time they have little consequence yet it drives people here mad. And yes, it should be very tough to criticize the org. That has delivered 2 Cups in 4 years in a salary cap era.

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09-14-2013, 02:57 PM
  #124
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Not crazy about Saad at C- however I think he's smart enough to excel there, and certainly defensively responsible enough. I think he has solid vision, may be strong enough to post up in front of the net, and could actually work out. He has the tools- we will just have to wait and see.

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09-14-2013, 04:18 PM
  #125
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yeah, i watch the team thanks. he has never consistently played like a top 6 forward and all of a sudden he is going to start?
How does a dominating postseason, where he could have arguably won the Conn Smythe...not earn a top 6 spot? What exactly do you want him to do?

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