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Best playoff player to never win the cup?

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Old
08-29-2013, 07:56 PM
  #51
cam042686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I haven't seen enough of his play to make my own argument, but I would nominate Mark Howe.

I'm also throwing Keith Primeau out there. He had a couple playoff runs that were fantastic. During his time in Philly, when he was on he was great. He had a tendency to score big goals as well.
The post didn't specify which "Cup." Mark Howe won two Avco Cups.

Just saying......

Craig Wallace

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Old
08-29-2013, 08:04 PM
  #52
Boom Boom Bear
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So are people on this thread saying that Park was a better playoff performer than Howe? Not sure I concur.

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08-30-2013, 08:31 AM
  #53
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First player I thought of was Dale Hawerchuk. Probably would have helped Winnipeg win a cup if they didn't have to play Edmonton and Calgary in the first and second round every damn time when both those Alberta clubs were stacked as if they were all-star teams in the 1980s.

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09-13-2013, 12:59 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Bougieman View Post
First player I thought of was Dale Hawerchuk. Probably would have helped Winnipeg win a cup if they didn't have to play Edmonton and Calgary in the first and second round every damn time when both those Alberta clubs were stacked as if they were all-star teams in the 1980s.
The Jets during that era played well against the Flames in the playoffs, winning 2 out of the 3 series they went against.

The Jets were the third best team in the Smythe Division during that era..Hawerchuk pretty much carried the franchise up until he got dealt to Buffalo.

The best chance the Jets had a legit shot to go to the Finals was probably 1990...beat Edmonton in double OT, go up 3-1 then lose in 7.

Wasted opportunities and crushing loses

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Old
09-13-2013, 12:13 PM
  #55
Big Phil
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Bear View Post
So are people on this thread saying that Park was a better playoff performer than Howe? Not sure I concur.
Park was a better playoff performer. In 1978 he had as good of a run as Conn Smythe winner Robinson.

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09-13-2013, 12:21 PM
  #56
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Mats Sundin no doubt. He was a clearcut winner with alternating poor backup, and bad luck.

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09-13-2013, 12:27 PM
  #57
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Brad Park

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09-13-2013, 02:17 PM
  #58
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The best "playoff" performer to never win the Cup.

The first two I thought of were Brad Park (logged an incredible amount of playoff minutes for the Rangers and Bruins cup runs that came up short) and then Trevor Linden. Linden left it all on the ice everytime the Canucks were in the post season. His game elevated from the regular season more than any player I can think of. Aside from his last few years he was a point a game player and I believe he led the league at one time for Game #7 winning goals (I may be off on that though).

But I can't argue with Ron Hextall either. His Conn Smythe may be more impressive than Crozier's as he had to play 4 series instead of two. Hextall was the leader on that Flyers team.

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Old
09-13-2013, 06:24 PM
  #59
Kyle McMahon
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
Mats Sundin no doubt. He was a clearcut winner with alternating poor backup, and bad luck.
This can't be serious. Sundin was notorious for not taking his game to the next level when the chips were down. 2002 will forever damn him. Leafs gutted out wins over the Isles and Sens with Sundin out of the lineup, then proceeded to lose four out of five against Carolina when he returned and they appeared on the verge of reaching the final.

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09-13-2013, 06:26 PM
  #60
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
This can't be serious. Sundin was notorious for not taking his game to the next level when the chips were down. 2002 will forever damn him. Leafs gutted out wins over the Isles and Sens with Sundin out of the lineup, then proceeded to lose four out of five against Carolina when he returned and they appeared on the verge of reaching the final.
Yeah, Sundin is definitely one of those players who looked like he cared a lot more when playing for the National Team than he did in the NHL playoffs.

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09-13-2013, 06:29 PM
  #61
vadim sharifijanov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
This can't be serious. Sundin was notorious for not taking his game to the next level when the chips were down. 2002 will forever damn him. Leafs gutted out wins over the Isles and Sens with Sundin out of the lineup, then proceeded to lose four out of five against Carolina when he returned and they appeared on the verge of reaching the final.
patrick ewing of the NHL.

but if that original post was serious, i'd like to ask: no matter how good sundin looked in the playoffs to your eyes, do you really believe that in the entire history of NHL hockey not a single player who never won a cup played better than that? can you really not imagine that there was some player that you didn't see who played better than that? that?

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09-13-2013, 07:57 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Yeah, Sundin is definitely one of those players who looked like he cared a lot more when playing for the National Team than he did in the NHL playoffs.
It's highly possible and there is no doubt that i am one of those guys that likes to mention Mats Sundin. Still, he had no help in Toronto and too much pressure for a non-Generational Talent, a claim i will bare to my grave.
But... I have noticed that many other people view him as a playoff loser much in the line of Börje Salming.


Last edited by Darth Yoda: 09-13-2013 at 08:39 PM.
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Old
09-13-2013, 09:03 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by cam042686 View Post
The post didn't specify which "Cup." Mark Howe won two Avco Cups.

Just saying......

Craig Wallace
How many Avco Cups did Marcel Dionne compete for?

Just askin'...

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Old
09-13-2013, 10:30 PM
  #64
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How many Avco Cups did Marcel Dionne compete for?

Just askin'...
Yeah but he had a full career in the NHL. Younger Howe did not.

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Old
09-13-2013, 10:46 PM
  #65
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I have to bring up Pavel Bure again, for that 94 run alone. IMHO the second best non-Cup winning run after Gretzky 93. I'd place Hextall 87 at #3. Park was more consistent though.

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Old
09-15-2013, 12:30 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
I have to bring up Pavel Bure again, for that 94 run alone. IMHO the second best non-Cup winning run after Gretzky 93. I'd place Hextall 87 at #3. Park was more consistent though.
Bure was a huge factor in several playoff series, contributing in crucial situations against the Winnipeg Jets, Calgary Flames, Dallas Stars, Toronto Maple Leafs, New York Rangers, and St. Louis Blues. I'll outline those details below.

He single-handedly defeated the Dallas Stars and Toronto Maple Leafs in 1994.

Against Dallas, he scored 6 goals, 2 assists, 8 points in 5 games. He compiled 27 shots in 5 games.



Against Toronto, he scored 4 goals, 3 assists in 5 games. In Games 1 and 2, he had a combined 13 shots (8 in Game 2).

Bure dominated the 1995 playoff series against St. Louis as well with 7 goals, 5 assists, 12 points in 7 games. Without him, the Canucks would not have advanced past the first round.

Against the Calgary Flames and New York Rangers in 1994, as well as against the Winnipeg Jets in 1992, Pavel played a huge role in helping the Canucks stave off elimination. He scored the series-winner against the Flames.

In his rookie season (1991-92), Bure's Canucks trailed 3-1 in the first round series against the Winnipeg Jets. In Game 5, Pavel exploded with a 4-point game. In Game 6, he came back with a hat trick to push the series to Game 7, which the Canucks won.

In 1994 against the Calgary Flames, the Canucks trailed the Flames 3-1 in the series. Pavel scored one of the goals in the Canucks' 2-1 overtime win over the Flames in Game 5. In Game 6, he assisted on one of the goals in a 3-2 overtime victory. In Game 7, he scored two goals, including the Double OT winner, and assisted on the game-tying goal in the third period.



Against the Rangers, he assisted on the Game 1 OT winner. In Game 5, he scored twice and assisted on the game-winning goal to keep the series alive just when the Rangers thought they would be winning the Stanley Cup. In Game 6, he assisted on the game-winning goal. In Games 5 and 6, he had a combined 13 shots (seven in Game 5, six in Game 6).

5:46:








In the 1994, he was the clear favorite to win the Conn Smythe Trophy had the Canucks won the Stanley Cup, and at one point some analysts predicted he would break the NHL record of 19 goals in one playoff campaign.

As of Game 4 of the third-round series against Toronto, some believed it was possible:
Quote:
Bure raises roof: Coliseum `earthquake' just another ovation: [Final Edition]
Stall, Bob. The Province [Vancouver, B.C] 22 May 1994: A14.

...

But the first goal was the winner and the second gave him a league-leading 12 for the playoffs. Whispers were beginning that he could threaten the NHL record of 19 goals in a playoff year, shared by Jari Kurri and Reggie Leach.
He concluded the 1994 playoffs with 16 goals, 15 assists, 31 point in 24 games. He stepped up with huge performances in several elimination games throughout his career, and dominated numerous series. In the first four years of his career, he played ten playoff series, dominated three on his own, and rescued the Canucks in several key moments in others. He was a strong playoff performer who came within one game of winning the Stanley Cup.

Quote:
Works Cited

Stall, Bob. "Bure Raises Roof: Coliseum `earthquake' just another Ovation." The Province: 0. May 22 1994. ProQuest. Web. 15 Sep. 2013 .


Last edited by JetsAlternate: 09-15-2013 at 12:47 AM.
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Old
09-29-2013, 01:34 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
This can't be serious. Sundin was notorious for not taking his game to the next level when the chips were down. 2002 will forever damn him. Leafs gutted out wins over the Isles and Sens with Sundin out of the lineup, then proceeded to lose four out of five against Carolina when he returned and they appeared on the verge of reaching the final.
That 2002 Leafs playoff run was pretty much the Gary Roberts/Alexander Mogilny show. Add in a young Alyn McCauley, gritty presence by Darcy Tucker/Travis Green and offence from McCabe and Kaberle...that team was on a roll.

Then Sundin comes back and the team adjusts around him, thus the disaster of the Carolina series..although he did score the tying goal in game 6, Canes score in OT.

2003 was even worse, the Leafs really relied on Belfour against the Flyers...by the time game 7 arrived, Flyers started off strong and never looked back...the lasting memory about that game was Claude Lapointe scoring 2 goals in game 7.

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Old
09-29-2013, 05:53 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
This can't be serious. Sundin was notorious for not taking his game to the next level when the chips were down. 2002 will forever damn him. Leafs gutted out wins over the Isles and Sens with Sundin out of the lineup, then proceeded to lose four out of five against Carolina when he returned and they appeared on the verge of reaching the final.
Sundin had twice the number of points as any other Leaf forward during that playoff series, despite missing one game. How is this loss his fault?

Here are the scorers for the Leafs during the Carolina matchup:

Sundin 4p
Kaberle 3p
Roberts 2p
Tucker 2p
McCabe 2p
Mogilny 1p
Hoglund 1p
Dempsey 1p
McCauley 1p

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Old
09-29-2013, 06:43 AM
  #69
Sens Rule
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But what explains the fact that while Dionne always blew his teammates away in scoring during the regular season, they often outscored him in the playoffs ?



Not me. Half a career as a bad playoff performer followed by half a career as a decent to pretty good one. He's never really put his team in his back for a series like even someone like Briere can say.



Briere's record is definitely impressive, but keep in mind he was an awful defensive player while racking up those points, and that he alway had another center on his team to take the tougher assignments. Ullman was a very good defensively player who usually went head to head against the best center of opponents.
Not saying Briere is the best forward ever not to win a Cup. He is however MONEY in the playoffs. He is better at all aspects of the game in the pressure of the playoffs. Even in the regular season vs. My Sens, when he is challenged physically and "woken up", he literally takes over games, plays with a fiesty edge, goes in the tough spots on the ice. In the playoffs he is always "awake". Reminds me of Doug Gilmour in the playoffs, at least in the oppositions end. Briere is a very underrated player overall. Montreal will not regret signing him. He left both Buffalo and Philly due to $$$ and Cap reasons, not because the team (or it's fan base) did not want him.

If Bourque had not gone to the Avs it would be him. Howe and Propp were huge in Philly. I did not watch Ulman but arguments here have a ton of merit. Park has to be strongly considered. Neely was a force of nature in the playoffs on Boston..... But not the most playoff games. So many worthy candidates that I won't pick one.

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09-29-2013, 07:00 AM
  #70
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Old
09-29-2013, 08:01 AM
  #71
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I came to post Danny Briere because post lockout their hasn't been a more consistently dangerous playoff performer to not win the Stanley Cup than him.

Since no one has mentioned him I'll say pre-concussion Eric Lindros. It's a shame he never had his name etched onto the Cup.. I hope the same fate doesn't befall Alexander Ovechkin

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Old
09-29-2013, 08:15 AM
  #72
TheDevilMadeMe
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Not saying Briere is the best forward ever not to win a Cup. He is however MONEY in the playoffs. He is better at all aspects of the game in the pressure of the playoffs. Even in the regular season vs. My Sens, when he is challenged physically and "woken up", he literally takes over games, plays with a fiesty edge, goes in the tough spots on the ice. In the playoffs he is always "awake". Reminds me of Doug Gilmour in the playoffs, at least in the oppositions end. Briere is a very underrated player overall. Montreal will not regret signing him. He left both Buffalo and Philly due to $$$ and Cap reasons, not because the team (or it's fan base) did not want him.

If Bourque had not gone to the Avs it would be him. Howe and Propp were huge in Philly. I did not watch Ulman but arguments here have a ton of merit. Park has to be strongly considered. Neely was a force of nature in the playoffs on Boston..... But not the most playoff games. So many worthy candidates that I won't pick one.
Briere is definitely money when it comes to scoring in the playoffs, but he's pretty much guaranteed to give it up the other way too. I don't know if I ever saw anyone cherrypick as much in the playoffs as I saw Briere doing when the Devils played the Flyers in 2012. Sometimes it would work and Briere would score a beautiful breakaway goal. And sometimes he'd just be circling the ice uselessly as the Devils scored.

And it's not just that one series. Yes, Briere is 2nd to Henrik Zetterberg in points scored since the 2005 lockout in the playoffs with 106. But despite all those points, he's -5. Now, I don't think you can tell anything from plus/minus on it's own, but it's worth noting that Briere has spent basically that entire stretch being sheltered from the opposition's best players as Drury, then Richards, then Giroux/Couturier, took the tough defensive assignments, yet he's still -5.

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