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Possibility of Martinez Trade?

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Old
09-13-2013, 03:07 PM
  #51
HYORI 1963
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King'sPawn View Post
Martinez is older and smaller than Ellerby, and he has more upside? He's 26 years old!
You make it sound like 26 is old. A lot of players hit their prime in their mid 20s which is what Martinez and Ellerby (soon to be 25) are.

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09-13-2013, 03:25 PM
  #52
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If the Kings end up letting Mitchell go at the end of the season, look for them to go hard after Brooks Orpik next summer. That is if Orpik doesn't re-sign with the Pens and hits the open market come July.

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09-13-2013, 03:26 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black1963 View Post
You make it sound like 26 is old. A lot of players hit their prime in their mid 20s which is what Martinez and Ellerby (soon to be 25) are.
No, I'm disputing this assertion that, under some unspoken criteria, Martinez has higher upside.

People cling to his best performance from a couple years ago and automatically assume he will be even better than that. When in reality, he was a healthy scratch in favor of two players who are bigger and younger. In camp, he's not paired with the most likely partner in Greene.

Sutter has said he needs his defensemen to be able to play more minutes, which Martinez struggled with when he DID play them.

So please tell me what you expect out of Martinez, if this is him approaching his prime now?

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09-13-2013, 03:34 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by King'sPawn View Post
People cling to his best performance from a couple years ago and automatically assume he will be even better than that. When in reality, he was a healthy scratch in favor of two players who are bigger and younger. In camp, he's not paired with the most likely partner in Greene.
Well, what's the difference between those who cling to his past performance from two years ago, and you clinging onto his past performance from last year?

Personally, I don't put too much emphasis on last year's shortened season.

What I do know about Martinez is that he's a smart player, a good skater and a good puck handler. He just needs to be an everyday player, and that will most likely happen on another team unfortunately.

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09-13-2013, 03:58 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Black1963 View Post
Well, what's the difference between those who cling to his past performance from two years ago, and you clinging onto his past performance from last year?

Personally, I don't put too much emphasis on last year's shortened season.

What I do know about Martinez is that he's a smart player, a good skater and a good puck handler. He just needs to be an everyday player, and that will most likely happen on another team unfortunately.
I'm not clinging to his performance last year and ignoring his performance of two years ago. However, I'm not as impressed with his play two years ago as others appear to be.

I do think he's a good skater, and when he gets the puck through traffic, he is effective, but I think he's average at best defensively.

I did notice he was a lot more timid, which I do think could be a by product of his injury, but his ineffectiveness was beyond that. He wasn't getting pucks through traffic anymore, so he was neutered by his best tool.

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09-13-2013, 04:19 PM
  #56
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I know this is a little overly dramatic but "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it"........Larry Murphy, Darryl Sydor, Alex ****nik,(sp lol ) and even Paul Coffey who we traded for a guy that hardly played and then lost the cup due to needing another PMD among other things...................if I am not mistaken LM was basically run out of town and is in the HHOF ?

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09-13-2013, 04:22 PM
  #57
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I think some are either forgetting what Martinez could do or have just forgotten about him because of the lack of playing time he received this past season. The guy had a really horrendous game against Phoenix this past season that I think really set him back and he wasn't the same player as before, but I'm confident that he can bounce back to the player he was in the past two years.

This is what I expect out of Martinez:
















Not expecting him to be a bruising crusher, but he's a smart player and he can read a play and knows when to pinch, when to throw a hit, when to stay back, etc. I think he's far smarter in decision making over Muzzin, Ellerby or Schultz and is a better skater than those three. His disadvantage is that he's smaller than them.

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09-13-2013, 04:32 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
If the Kings end up letting Mitchell go at the end of the season, look for them to go hard after Brooks Orpik next summer. That is if Orpik doesn't re-sign with the Pens and hits the open market come July.
The kings did go after him once, the offseason before they signed Scuderi

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09-13-2013, 10:40 PM
  #59
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Yea let's break up our cup winning D even more by trading Martinez. That D has been our backbone for the last 2 years. We need to keep the rest together for as long as possible. Murray did a lot in coaching that D in his way and bringing in different D men is gonna ruin what we've had.

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09-14-2013, 12:34 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by HolyShot View Post
Yea let's break up our cup winning D even more by trading Martinez. That D has been our backbone for the last 2 years. We need to keep the rest together for as long as possible. Murray did a lot in coaching that D in his way and bringing in different D men is gonna ruin what we've had.
I don't want Martinez traded either, but I'm not worrying about holding the cup winning D together. We didn't have Mitchell last year and Greene was gone much of the year, this year we won't have Scuderi. We can't keep it together so I'd rather see us embracing the fact change will happen, not fight it. If we can get a good deal for Martinez that makes sense and helps the team, now or later, I say go ahead. I trust DL to not leave us short.

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09-14-2013, 01:13 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
I don't want Martinez traded either, but I'm not worrying about holding the cup winning D together. We didn't have Mitchell last year and Greene was gone much of the year, this year we won't have Scuderi. We can't keep it together so I'd rather see us embracing the fact change will happen, not fight it. If we can get a good deal for Martinez that makes sense and helps the team, now or later, I say go ahead. I trust DL to not leave us short.
Yea and look what happened with not having mitchell and greene. Luckily we have doughty to pick up the slack.

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09-14-2013, 01:15 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Black1963 View Post
By 95%, did you mean 5%?

As far as I can tell, KP seems to be the only poster on this thread that thinks negatively about Martinez.
i don't think negatively of him (I kind of like him), i just value him differently than you guys. i hope he stays, but as of now, he's a fringe NHL player until he proves otherwise. I don't think he's a solid #4 defenseman and see him topping out at #5/6 on the average team. players like that go for round 5 picks or later, not round 2.

I think we'll see Martinez as the healthy scratch a lot this year. Muzzin already leap frogged him. That, and I don't consider our defense to be the best in the NHL, so it's telling how Martinez can't even crack this top 6 lineup.


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09-14-2013, 01:24 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by yankeeking View Post
I know this is a little overly dramatic but "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it"........Larry Murphy, Darryl Sydor, Alex ****nik,(sp lol ) and even Paul Coffey who we traded for a guy that hardly played and then lost the cup due to needing another PMD among other things...................if I am not mistaken LM was basically run out of town and is in the HHOF ?
you know, every teams' fans have a list of players that they shouldn't have traded away, so you should jsut get used to it. Plus, we received a lot of value on trades as well. Norstrom, Miller, and Quincey were defenseman steals, just off the top of my head.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyShot View Post
Yea let's break up our cup winning D even more by trading Martinez. That D has been our backbone for the last 2 years. We need to keep the rest together for as long as possible. Murray did a lot in coaching that D in his way and bringing in different D men is gonna ruin what we've had.
If we live in the past, then we'll never win another cup. We have to constantly be upgrading, not try to hold onto memories of the past.

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Old
09-14-2013, 10:15 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyShot View Post
Yea and look what happened with not having mitchell and greene. Luckily we have doughty to pick up the slack.
Ummm, what did happen? We made the playoffs, beat St. Louis and San Jose and made the conference finals? Yeah, I'd like to win the Cup, but it's been 16 years since someone went back-to-back, making the conference finals is a pretty good level of success coming off a cup win.

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09-14-2013, 03:18 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur View Post
i don't think negatively of him (I kind of like him), i just value him differently than you guys. i hope he stays, but as of now, he's a fringe NHL player until he proves otherwise. I don't think he's a solid #4 defenseman and see him topping out at #5/6 on the average team. players like that go for round 5 picks or later, not round 2.

I think we'll see Martinez as the healthy scratch a lot this year. Muzzin already leap frogged him. That, and I don't consider our defense to be the best in the NHL, so it's telling how Martinez can't even crack this top 6 lineup.
Yeah, I think a 5th round pick is a bit too low. A guy like Ellerby is worth a 5th pick. Remember, we got a 5th for Drewiske, and Martinez is definitely worth more than either Ellerby or Drewiske.

Personally, I think Amart's fmv is something close to a 2nd, but I think we'll get a 3rd or a 4th plus.

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09-14-2013, 05:56 PM
  #66
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I don't know if this has been said already, but Bernstein is completely out of touch on almost every Kings' rumor he posts. He's never, ever gotten anything even remotely right.

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09-15-2013, 10:05 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Richie10 View Post
I don't know if this has been said already, but Bernstein is completely out of touch on almost every Kings' rumor he posts. He's never, ever gotten anything even remotely right.
Please see my original post...I make it clear I don't think much of this particular Twitter-dude.

I don't know about "never" got anything remotely right...I am sure if someone delves into his past, he might have got some things right. But I agree he is not a reliable source. I just put it out there for some pre-season discussion.

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09-15-2013, 10:43 AM
  #68
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Bernstein is doing what most of these 'experts' do. write and pose a scenario based on an obvious situation. everyone knows that DL will have to do something with the extra D and AMart has the most value.

beyond his bs expert analysis....

years ago i claimed that VV and AMart were the second coming of zhitnik and sydor. to trade him will be the second time and wrong course of action yet again. at 26 he is just moving into prime age for a D man, period.

the references of "two years" ago are made for a reason when it comes to Alec, we see what he is capable of on the ice. to throw that aside is the same as dismissing Quick's accomplishments two years ago. so much for anyone looking to be dismissive of Alec's play...

last season was a down year for Alec. it was also a down year for Kopitar and Richards, perhaps we trade them also because LA has depth at center. Alec had a horrible year in large part to a major injury to the face followed by the second injury back here in the states. take a puck to the face and have your face shattered, lose your cardio and you will suck also. the guy was emotionally fragile possibly due to the puck to the face and he wasn't ready physically when the lockout ended. the quotes from Dean and Darryl the past few days pretty much bear all this out.

i am an advocate of alec, just to get that out there. with that said - it will be a bad move if DL trades him in favor of keeping/protecting Ellerby and/or schultz. i think this year they move with DD, RR, VV, MG, WM and the combo of Muzz and AMart. it will set the stage for them short and long term. when factoring who will have expiring contracts and the kids from MAN emerging, this gives the team the assets it needs.

they trade AMart it will be a big mistake, it will be another D Sydor trade in the making. plain and simple

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09-15-2013, 11:24 AM
  #69
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AMart still has good upside potential, and I bet he will have a bounceback year. Could beat Muzzin for that spot.

He's worth more to us, even on the bench, than he would bring in return.

The cold-hearted view would be: platoon Muzzin and Martinez all year, then trade whoever brings the highest offer at the deadline.

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09-15-2013, 11:24 AM
  #70
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Bernstein or no Bernstein, it does make sense that Martinez may get traded, does it not?

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09-15-2013, 03:12 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Stupid Sexy Flanders View Post
AMart still has good upside potential, and I bet he will have a bounceback year. Could beat Muzzin for that spot.

He's worth more to us, even on the bench, than he would bring in return.

The cold-hearted view would be: platoon Muzzin and Martinez all year, then trade whoever brings the highest offer at the deadline.
We could roll 7 full-timers as well. We have some old men and ? on the team.

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09-15-2013, 09:20 PM
  #72
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You know what happens if we trade Marty? We get fleeced. That's what happens. Do you wanna get fleeced? I didn't think so.

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09-16-2013, 03:48 AM
  #73
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You know what happens if we trade Marty? We get fleeced. That's what happens. Do you wanna get fleeced? I didn't think so.
For once you are making sense and I agree (to a degree, as we don't know what exactly the Kings could get for Martinez, but you are probably right that it won't be enough).

Martinez is more than just a serviceable defenseman. He's had his ups and downs just like any other inexperienced defenseman, as we've seen it happen with Voynov and we've seen it plenty from Muzzin and Ellerby as well. But unlike the latter two dmen, Martinez has showed us that he can keep up with this level of play.

Martinez and Greene have chemistry. We have yet to see if Muzzin can do that. His most impressive stretch was when he was paired with Doughty, and without him, he struggled for the most part. And the same happened with Martinez without Greene. They both compliment each other well and I'd rather the Kings keep Martinez before giving up on him and seeing him flourish elsewhere while Muzzin or someone else struggles to pin down regular duty on the blueline.

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Old
09-16-2013, 08:18 AM
  #74
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I'll get hate for saying this but I've always felt that Martinez would be a good forward for some reason. And If we do have to get rid of a D man I feel that we should let Muzzin go.

IMO Martinez>Muzzin>>Ellerby>>Shultz

But I do feel that Ellerby can still develope into a great D Man.

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09-16-2013, 08:24 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur View Post
i don't see him anyone can value a healthy scratch player to be worth a 2nd. would you trade a 2nd for martinez? he barely broke half the games last year with Mitchell out, when we had major defensive issues all year. He's maybe a 5th round pick. I'd be happy with that.
5th round picks rarely make it to the NHL. Martinez is a proven defenseman. I think he is worth a 2nd round pick for that reason. Dean may have a supply and demand problem though. Every GM knows he has too many NHL defensemen under contract, so unless there is a demand for one or two of the guys Dean is willing to move, he may have to take less.

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