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The 2013-2014 Training Camp/Preseason Discussion Thread

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Old
09-14-2013, 08:53 PM
  #976
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
First 3 years of their career, are their numbers comparable or not? Yes or no?
Yes!!!!! Bear in mind though that Giroux came up very late in his first season though!

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09-14-2013, 08:56 PM
  #977
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Believe it or not, someone actually called Stepan comparable to Giroux because their #'s are similar their first 3 years.
And you call this ignoring the facts?

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09-14-2013, 09:01 PM
  #978
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Believe it or not, someone actually called Stepan comparable to Giroux because their #'s are similar their first 3 years.
They are comparable because of that. We're talking about contracts here. Another poster said that Stepan deserves 4 or even 5 mil per year on a 2 year deal. I compared Stepan now to Giroux when he got his 2nd contract. Why is that so hard to understand?

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09-14-2013, 09:10 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
They are comparable because of that. We're talking about contracts here. Another poster said that Stepan deserves 4 or even 5 mil per year on a 2 year deal. I compared Stepan now to Giroux when he got his 2nd contract. Why is that so hard to understand?
Sather's offering bridge deals to players coming of EIC's with no arbitration rights is the one thing he does that I agree with! If superior players like Subban and Couture can sign 2 year deals for less than 3 mil per year, than that should be good enough for Stepan.

He really needs to set his agent straight, sign a deal and get his ass in camp because this is a very important year in his development and there is a new sytem to learn and adapt to.

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09-14-2013, 09:25 PM
  #980
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Hey guys, I brought Guacamole, what did I miss?

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09-14-2013, 09:27 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Sather's offering bridge deals to players coming of EIC's with no arbitration rights is the one thing he does that I agree with! If superior players like Subban and Couture can sign 2 year deals for less than 3 mil per year, than that should be good enough for Stepan.

He really needs to set his agent straight, sign a deal and get his ass in camp because this is a very important year in his development and there is a new sytem to learn and adapt to.
I don't think anybody on this board disagrees with you here.

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09-14-2013, 09:31 PM
  #982
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For those that are calling our franchise the worst of the original six, it has nothing to do with anything. You're literally bringing up 5-7 irrelevant decades. Then, there's the Glen is awful stuff. He hasn't done much in the last decade plus but that simply reflects the opportunities he's perhaps missed out on. He's been consistently average, good at times, bad at times. You wouldn't look at a player like Gaborik and reference his lack of cups or PO production and call him an awful player.


Who cares about what Giroux has become? Giroux got his deal based on his first 3 years and Stepan is getting his based on his first three years. The comparison is between that and that alone.

Sometimes people start talking out of sentiment and completely disregard the faults to their argument and opinion and disregard the validity to what other people are saying and that alone is enough to make it sound like you're talking out of your ass.

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09-14-2013, 09:33 PM
  #983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Sather's offering bridge deals to players coming of EIC's with no arbitration rights is the one thing he does that I agree with! If superior players like Subban and Couture can sign 2 year deals for less than 3 mil per year, than that should be good enough for Stepan.

He really needs to set his agent straight, sign a deal and get his ass in camp because this is a very important year in his development and there is a new sytem to learn and adapt to.
Subban signed his deal before last season, before he broke out. Couture signed his long ago after his rookie year.

And Couture is not a superior player to Stepan

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09-14-2013, 09:35 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
I don't think anybody on this board disagrees with you here.
Eureka! I've reached the first plateau.

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09-14-2013, 09:41 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by nils2317 View Post
Subban signed his deal before last season, before he broke out. Couture signed his long ago after his rookie year.

And Couture is not a superior player to Stepan
You have your opinion and I have mine; why don't you take a look at a comparative of their respective playoff production the past 4 years(when production really means something) and then let me know if you still think Stepan is better than Couture? Stepan's disappearing act in the playoffs is a real eye opener!

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09-14-2013, 09:47 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
You have your opinion and I have mine; why don't you take a look at a comparative of their respective playoff production the past 4 years(when production really means something) and then let me know if you still think Stepan is better than Couture? Stepan's disappearing act in the playoffs is a real eye opener!
I don't think that's fair. Almost the entire team forgets how to score in the playoffs these last few years, Stepan shouldn't be exclusively bashed for that.

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09-14-2013, 09:53 PM
  #987
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
I don't think that's fair. Almost the entire team forgets how to score in the playoffs these last few years, Stepan shouldn't be exclusively bashed for that.
That's a cop out and you know it. To save you some time, Stepan's numbers are a/f:

37 games. 5 goals, 8 assists

Gotta admit, some budding superstar we got on our hands!

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09-14-2013, 09:55 PM
  #988
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Originally Posted by JCrusty View Post
For those that are calling our franchise the worst of the original six, it has nothing to do with anything. You're literally bringing up 5-7 irrelevant decades. Then, there's the Glen is awful stuff. He hasn't done much in the last decade plus but that simply reflects the opportunities he's perhaps missed out on. He's been consistently average, good at times, bad at times. You wouldn't look at a player like Gaborik and reference his lack of cups or PO production and call him an awful player.


Who cares about what Giroux has become? Giroux got his deal based on his first 3 years and Stepan is getting his based on his first three years. The comparison is between that and that alone.

Sometimes people start talking out of sentiment and completely disregard the faults to their argument and opinion and disregard the validity to what other people are saying and that alone is enough to make it sound like you're talking out of your ass.
You ought to know about that topic!

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09-14-2013, 10:07 PM
  #989
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
That's a cop out and you know it. To save you some time, Stepan's numbers are a/f:

37 games. 5 goals, 8 assists

Gotta admit, some budding superstar we got on our hands!
Ryan Callahan was almost a non-factor offensively these two post seasons (although he was injured this year so he gets a pass, last year he waited until the New Jersey series to start scoring), Hagelin didn't do anything last year, Nash and Richards did NOTHING this year, and they have much higher expectations. Why aren't we getting mad at them? Come on now, if Stepan does almost nothing this post season THEN we can debate about him being a playoff choker. It's just not fair to throw him to the wolves when our other top forwards aren't exactly playing like worldbeaters either.

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09-14-2013, 10:10 PM
  #990
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
You ought to know about that topic!
So, no attempt to address the points he brought up? Astonishing.

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09-14-2013, 10:12 PM
  #991
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Sometimes I worry about humanities future when I witness the lack of reading comprehension some posters display around here.

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09-14-2013, 10:14 PM
  #992
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Hopefully MSG's special tomorrow morning will be interrupted by breaking news telling us Stepan is signed.

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Old
09-14-2013, 10:14 PM
  #993
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Sometimes I worry about humanities future when I witness the lack of reading comprehension some posters display around here.
I think in many cases it's intentional.

He made a good point, which would be tough to refute, so I'll pretend he said this, which I have a good response for...

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Old
09-14-2013, 10:16 PM
  #994
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
You ought to know about that topic!
You keep on not getting it.

The first thing I read just now is you replying to Nils on him mentioning the fact that the Subban and Couture point you made is invalid because you're comparing Stepan to Subban right now as opposed to Subban when he signed that deal a year ago, before his breakout year and to Couture years ago before he solidified his reputation.

You ignored that entirely.

You said that he has his own opinion and you have your own.

The problem is that you keep on dismissing what's being said against your argument as opinion (or simply ignoring it). It's a matter of fact and logic. This isn't grade school. Opinions can be wrong and even more so, facts and logic is not mere matters of opinion.

You first ignore the comparable of Giroux and Stepan's point production in their respective first 3 years. Then you put forth a comparison between the playoff production of Couture and Stepan. You can't cherry pick logic.

Also, the reason why everyone is disagreeing with you is not because you're inherently wrong. It's mostly because you're being difficult with facetious remarks and facetious use of exclamation marks.

It's not a cop out to point out the lack of offensive production of a team that suffered from systematically stifled offensive production in the playoffs. There's validity to that. It's only a partial defense to Stepan's poor playoff performance but it's valid and worth considering which you obviously don't care for.

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Old
09-14-2013, 10:17 PM
  #995
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Sometimes I worry about humanities future when I witness the lack of reading comprehension some posters display around here.
Well the first flaw in your logic is forecasting humanities future based on the reading comprehension hfboards posters.

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09-14-2013, 10:18 PM
  #996
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Your first major problem is forecasting humanities future based on the reading comprehension hfboards posters.
I've found it to be a strong indicator in the past.

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09-14-2013, 10:18 PM
  #997
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
Ryan Callahan was almost a non-factor offensively these two post seasons (although he was injured this year so he gets a pass, last year he waited until the New Jersey series to start scoring), Hagelin didn't do anything last year, Nash and Richards did NOTHING this year, and they have much higher expectations. Why aren't we getting mad at them? Come on now, if Stepan does almost nothing this post season THEN we can debate about him being a playoff choker. It's just not fair to throw him to the wolves when our other top forwards aren't exactly playing like worldbeaters either.
I'm not throwing him to the wolves; I'm merely posting his non playoff performance because he is the subject of our lengthy give and take conversation for the past 3+ pages. Look, don't get me wrong here; I love Derek Stepan and predicted as far back as his freshman year at Wisconsin that he would be a big player and the eventual captain as a Ranger. I wish he was blessed with a better skillset but it is what is and I truly hope he isn't thrust into a position(like fulltime 1st line center) where he really isn't best suited to succeed here.

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09-14-2013, 10:19 PM
  #998
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Originally Posted by nils2317 View Post
Subban signed his deal before last season, before he broke out. Couture signed his long ago after his rookie year.

And Couture is not a superior player to Stepan
Couture isn't superior?????? Good night I'm done

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09-14-2013, 10:21 PM
  #999
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Originally Posted by Clowe Knows Best View Post
Couture isn't superior?????? Good night I'm done
Stepan is a more rounded player. Depending on what kind of player you're biased toward, either one can be made a case for.

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09-14-2013, 10:22 PM
  #1000
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Originally Posted by JCrusty View Post
Stepan is a more rounded player. Depending on what kind of player you're biased toward, either one can be made a case for.
But skating...

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