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So what will our Top 6 be this season?

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Old
09-14-2013, 05:05 PM
  #126
topnotch
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Just from my perspective - playing really well over a 23 game stretch doesn't change the fact that Bickell hasn't consistently peformed as a top 6 forward over any other stretch of his NHL career. He proved he could do it for most of 23 games, but then again guys like Joel Ward, Ruslan Fedetenko and John Druce all did the same in the past.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but Q's decision with Saad just boggles my mind, just the same way that the decision to try Kane at C did in 2012.
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Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken View Post
yeah, i watch the team thanks. he has never consistently played like a top 6 forward and all of a sudden he is going to start?
This just isn't true. Bickell played like a top-6 forward all of last year. It's one reason why the Hawks had such a good 3rd line.

Bickell scored 23 even strength points last year, tied for 59th for forwards in the NHL. Here are some notable players that Bickell tied or beat in ES points:

Zetterberg
Carter
Jamie Benn
Lecavalier
J. Stall
Hossa
Saad
Ribeiro
Huberdeau
Backes
Gagner
Elias
Iginla
Yakupov
Horton
Neal
Callahan
Turris
Thornton
Pavelski
Franzen
Roy
Perron
Plekanec
L. Eriksson
Gaborik
Steen
M. Richards
D. Brown

Almost all of these players put in a full season. Lecavalier had the fewest games played at 39.

Bickell also has a strong argument that he played top-6 caliber in his rookie season as well totaling 34 ES points putting him tied for 98th.

Just because he has received no PP time doesn't mean he's not top-6 caliber.

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Old
09-15-2013, 08:43 AM
  #127
BobbyJet
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
How does a dominating postseason, where he could have arguably won the Conn Smythe...not earn a top 6 spot? What exactly do you want him to do?
To just be more consistent, especially physically, with no fly bys. That intensity he has shown in the post season needs to show up every game and he'll be a very good power forward alongside Toews (or Kane or both).

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09-15-2013, 09:56 AM
  #128
Beukeboom Fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topnotch View Post
This just isn't true. Bickell played like a top-6 forward all of last year. It's one reason why the Hawks had such a good 3rd line.

Bickell scored 23 even strength points last year, tied for 59th for forwards in the NHL. Here are some notable players that Bickell tied or beat in ES points:

Zetterberg
Carter
Jamie Benn
Lecavalier
J. Stall
Hossa
Saad
Ribeiro
Huberdeau
Backes
Gagner
Elias
Iginla
Yakupov
Horton
Neal
Callahan
Turris
Thornton
Pavelski
Franzen
Roy
Perron
Plekanec
L. Eriksson
Gaborik
Steen
M. Richards
D. Brown

Almost all of these players put in a full season. Lecavalier had the fewest games played at 39.

Bickell also has a strong argument that he played top-6 caliber in his rookie season as well totaling 34 ES points putting him tied for 98th.

Just because he has received no PP time doesn't mean he's not top-6 caliber.
IMO - being a top 6 player is more than a ES/G rate. By that measure - Victor Stalberg is a legit 1st line player if you just want to look at point production over the last two years.

IMO - Bickell has been very inconsistent over his 3 years with the Hawks. I would say that the only time that he consistently performed like the player we think he was the P/O's last year. Even if you look at the first contract he signed - Bickell didn't think he was a top 6 player.

From my perspective - when you're a top 6 player - you're who the team expects to produce. Offensive production beyond 10-15 in a 3rd line role is considered "bonus", but now Bickell is going to be getting more icetime, and IMO he needs to step up the level of consistency in his game, especially the physical aspects.

I'm not saying that Bickell lacks the skills to be a top 6 player. I am saying that there have been a ton of players who have gotten hot over a play-off run who were never able to re-kindle that same level of effort/intensity/production (Joel Ward, Ruslan Fedetenko, Martin Gelinas, John Druce, etc.). Hoping that Bickell isn't one of those guys, and turns into a consistent legit 2nd tier scoring line forward that plays a power game. Until he does that over a period of time a lot longer than 23 games though, it's a risk IMO.

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Old
09-15-2013, 10:10 AM
  #129
topnotch
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
IMO - being a top 6 player is more than a ES/G rate. By that measure - Victor Stalberg is a legit 1st line player if you just want to look at point production over the last two years.

IMO - Bickell has been very inconsistent over his 3 years with the Hawks. I would say that the only time that he consistently performed like the player we think he was the P/O's last year. Even if you look at the first contract he signed - Bickell didn't think he was a top 6 player.

From my perspective - when you're a top 6 player - you're who the team expects to produce. Offensive production beyond 10-15 in a 3rd line role is considered "bonus", but now Bickell is going to be getting more icetime, and IMO he needs to step up the level of consistency in his game, especially the physical aspects.

I'm not saying that Bickell lacks the skills to be a top 6 player. I am saying that there have been a ton of players who have gotten hot over a play-off run who were never able to re-kindle that same level of effort/intensity/production (Joel Ward, Ruslan Fedetenko, Martin Gelinas, John Druce, etc.). Hoping that Bickell isn't one of those guys, and turns into a consistent legit 2nd tier scoring line forward that plays a power game. Until he does that over a period of time a lot longer than 23 games though, it's a risk IMO.
Of course ES PPG is not the only telling aspect of being a top-6 player, but it's an important one. And Bickell's stats say he's a top-6 player. Offensively, 2nd line forwards usually fall somewhere in between <0.7 and 0.5 points per game. With more ice time and some PP time, Bickell should easily get there.

If you require Bickell to perform consistently like he did last playoffs you are expecting him to be a 1st line player and one of the best power forwards in the game - because that is how he played.

Personally, if Bickell can play as well as he did last regular season, but improve his points with the greater ice time and PP time I will be happy.

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Old
09-15-2013, 11:42 AM
  #130
Sarava
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Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
To just be more consistent, especially physically, with no fly bys. That intensity he has shown in the post season needs to show up every game and he'll be a very good power forward alongside Toews (or Kane or both).
You're asking him to do something that basically no player in the NHL does. Ask Bruin fans about Lucic in the regular season. He disapears during stretches of the regular season as well. A lot of people consider him the best pf in the NHL. And with Bickell - he had a very good regular season. There's just only so much you're going to produce on a line with Stalberg and Shaw. But as Topnotch pointed out - they were one of the top 3rd lines in the league.

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Old
09-15-2013, 11:56 AM
  #131
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If Bickell plays as well as he did last season - a contract year - I'll be thrilled.

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09-15-2013, 07:39 PM
  #132
BobbyJet
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
You're asking him to do something that basically no player in the NHL does. Ask Bruin fans about Lucic in the regular season. He disapears during stretches of the regular season as well. A lot of people consider him the best pf in the NHL. And with Bickell - he had a very good regular season. There's just only so much you're going to produce on a line with Stalberg and Shaw. But as Topnotch pointed out - they were one of the top 3rd lines in the league.
That was last season. We're talking going forward here, and playing on the 3rd line then is far different from playing on the 1st line now. His repoonsibilities have increased along with his salary, and he will be playing against the ops top players (some of whom will be targetting Toews). Not asking him to put up big numbers, but consistency is a must at this stage in his career or his top 6 spot will be short lived. I have stuck with BB all along, when many here wanted him gone. I have no doubt he is capable of rising to the challenge.

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