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How Improved Are The Oilers.

View Poll Results: How improved are we?
Enough to make the playoffs 57 16.62%
Enough to make us compete for the final spot 184 53.64%
Only Enough to move up a spot or two 80 23.32%
We did not improve 22 6.41%
Voters: 343. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-15-2013, 06:29 PM
  #176
smackdaddy
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Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
Even so... I think that mindset of "we are contenders" is a pretty strong collective mental driver for players on a team that is a legit threat to go far in the playoffs. I think it can legitimately raise the compete and resilience levels of average/below average players as they see the team around them is collectively solid and expectations are higher than "make the playoffs and we are golden".

The Oilers are still stuck mentally somewhere in the mindset of "we could/should" make the playoffs.

I think it would be quite an eye-opening difference for MPS to go to a team where they are expected to go far and thoughts of making/missing the playoffs isn't even on the agenda... they are focussed far beyond that level.
Our goal is to win the cup. That's the entire reason we went into rebuild mode. What MPS fails to understand, or maybe it's a language barrier, is that "Making the playoffs" is the first milestone on the road to winning the cup. And if you are unable to pass the milestones (Or in his case, contribute to it), then those milestones become bigger and bigger. It's like that with any job or profession. Toronto is the premier team to use as an example of a team completely satisfied with just making the playoffs.

The Blues' actual goal right now is "Making it past the 2nd round", something that haven't been able to do since 2001. They can have all the cup aspirations they want, and it's a good thing they're talking about winning the cup. But so are we. And to get there you first have to make the mother***in playoffs.

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09-15-2013, 06:56 PM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Our goal is to win the cup. That's the entire reason we went into rebuild mode. What MPS fails to understand, or maybe it's a language barrier, is that "Making the playoffs" is the first milestone on the road to winning the cup. And if you are unable to pass the milestones (Or in his case, contribute to it), then those milestones become bigger and bigger. It's like that with any job or profession. Toronto is the premier team to use as an example of a team completely satisfied with just making the playoffs.

The Blues' actual goal right now is "Making it past the 2nd round", something that haven't been able to do since 2001. They can have all the cup aspirations they want, and it's a good thing they're talking about winning the cup. But so are we. And to get there you first have to make the mother***in playoffs.
I think you are missing the point.

Paajarvi is talking about the culture in the room. After leaving a losing culture (a product of being on one of the worst teams in the NHL the past 5 seasons) it was a breath of fresh air for him to be around a team who is looking to contend...not just squeak into the playoffs and make some noise.

Its perfectly understandable and not all that surprising that this created enough of an impression on Magnes that he felt a need to share it.

Good for him...I am sure that being around a contending organization (something the Oilers are years away from being) is very exciting compared to the misery he has had to endure since the Oilers brought him over.

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09-15-2013, 06:57 PM
  #178
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I don't think it should surprise anyone that a better team has higher aspirations.

If the Oilers went into the season saying stuff about the Stanley Cup they'd probably be laughed back to Red Deer.

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Old
09-15-2013, 08:39 PM
  #179
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Well, I'm looking at the direct upgrade of Perron over Paajarvi. That's the difference between a 3rd liner and a good 2nd liner. Other than that, I'm not really convinced the Oilers are anywhere near good enough to make the playoffs.

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09-15-2013, 08:43 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Pep View Post
Well, I'm looking at the direct upgrade of Perron over Paajarvi. That's the difference between a 3rd liner and a good 2nd liner. Other than that, I'm not really convinced the Oilers are anywhere near good enough to make the playoffs.
Isn't Ference an upgrade over Whitney?

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09-15-2013, 08:44 PM
  #181
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Isn't Ference an upgrade over Whitney?
Probably, but it's marginal at best.

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09-15-2013, 08:47 PM
  #182
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Probably, but it's marginal at best.
Seriously? Lol

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09-15-2013, 08:49 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pep View Post
Probably, but it's marginal at best.
It's far more than marginal. Ference is everything our defense is lacking. Whitney was lazy, slow and uncommitted.. Had some hockey sense and could make a good first pass but that's about it. If we are talking primarily fantasy league stats than maybe its marginal. However, Ference brings a whole lot more to the table than Whitney ever will in terms of leadership, fitness and defensive abilities.

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09-15-2013, 08:50 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
Isn't Ference an upgrade over Whitney?
Ference is an upgrade over any defenceman we've had since Pronger. He was the #2/3 defenceman on a Stanley cup contender for a reason. Getting both him and Gordon was huge for this team.

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09-15-2013, 08:51 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
Seriously? Lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by PETRYDISH View Post
It's far more than marginal. Ference is everything our defense is lacking. Whitney was lazy, slow and uncommitted.. Had some hockey sense and could make a good first pass but that's about it. If we are talking primarily fantasy league stats than maybe its marginal. However, Ference brings a whole lot more to the table than Whitney ever will in terms of leadership, fitness and defensive abilities.
As I said, it's an upgrade, but I don't think it's that huge of an upgrade. Ference is pretty much a journeyman defenseman and average player, but his intangibles and leadership are obviously both traits the Oilers could use. Hockey wise, I don't think he's that good. Reminds me a lot of Nick Schultz before he came to the Oilers.

Still holding out hope for Coburn trade.

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09-15-2013, 08:52 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Pep View Post
Probably, but it's marginal at best.
Whitney's awful defensive play last season cost us a few points, between him and Krueger getting rid of both should be a massive upgrade.

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Old
09-15-2013, 08:53 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by shogun99 View Post
Ference is an upgrade over any defenceman we've had since Pronger. He was the #2/3 defenceman on a Stanley cup contender for a reason. Getting both him and Gordon was huge for this team.
I disagree. Visnovsky, Pitkanen, Whitney(at the time of the trade) were all better players.

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09-15-2013, 08:54 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by shogun99 View Post
Ference is an upgrade over any defenceman we've had since Pronger. He was the #2/3 defenceman on a Stanley cup contender for a reason. Getting both him and Gordon was huge for this team.
I think Visnovsky when he was on the Oil is probably better than Ference, more of an impact offensively. However Ference is the type that unless you are watching the games really hard you won't notice. I'm scared lots of fans are going to underrate him because he's not putting up points. What Ference does is plays a lot of minutes, he's unassuming most of the time but for a guy like that it's a good thing, it means he's doing his job.

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Old
09-15-2013, 08:56 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Pep View Post
I disagree. Visnovsky, Pitkanen, Whitney(at the time of the trade) were all better players.
Not even close. Even on the year he put up decent points he missed the majority of it with injuries. He's never had a meaningful impact on this team and the last two years he's been outright awful, hence why 30 teams refuse to give him a contract. Pitkanen and Vis were good though.

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Old
09-15-2013, 08:58 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by PETRYDISH View Post
I think Visnovsky when he was on the Oil is probably better than Ference, more of an impact offensively. However Ference is the type that unless you are watching the games really hard you won't notice. I'm scared lots of fans are going to underrate him because he's not putting up points. What Ference does is plays a lot of minutes, he's unassuming most of the time but for a guy like that it's a good thing, it means he's doing his job.
Meh, I think most people understand defensive dmen won't be putting up a lot of points. Look at how appreciative we all are on Smid, his career high is 15pts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PETRYDISH View Post
Not even close. Even on the year he put up decent points he missed the majority of it with injuries. He's never had a meaningful impact on this team and the last two years he's been outright awful, hence why 30 teams refuse to give him a contract. Pitkanen and Vis were good though.
Agreed, he was really bad last two years and just downright dreadful his final year. One of the worst single-season performances I've seen from an Oilers player.

But when he came straight from Anaheim and before that foot surgery, he was a very productive player. Injuries killed his career.

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09-15-2013, 09:09 PM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pep View Post
I disagree. Visnovsky, Pitkanen, Whitney(at the time of the trade) were all better players.
They were all better offensive players. Ference is better defensively then all three, he also has more heart and is tougher to play against. Visnovsky and Pitkanen couldn't wait to get out of Edmonton.

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Old
09-16-2013, 03:23 AM
  #192
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It's a shame we didn't have a better team for Vis. He was really talented and we could have had some good years out of him.

Anyway Ference is much more comparable to someone like Smith, as opposed to Pitkanen or Visnovsky.

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09-16-2013, 05:29 AM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pep View Post
I disagree. Visnovsky, Pitkanen, Whitney(at the time of the trade) were all better players.
Disagree with Whitny-- it became obvious early on that he was a shadow of the d-man he once had the chance to be due to injuries he had suffered prior to joining the oilers and when got injured with the oilers it became painfully obvious he was done. I have tried to lay off bashing tambo any more, but it sounds like most other teams knew of the problem with Whitney and were staying away from him when the oilers did that deal. But Tambo showed a blind spot in fully looking at the players he was getting in soem deals

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09-16-2013, 05:45 AM
  #194
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LOL @ the Ference love.

Our best defenseman since Pronger? Do people not remember Pitkanen? Visnovsky? Hell, even Smid and Petry are better than him right now. Prime Gilbert and Grebeshkov were also a formidable duo for a season. Sheldon Souray in his one All-Star year for us as well.

#2/3 Dman for Boston? Try #4. A sheltered #4.

Chara-Seidenberg-Boychuk were the de-facto 1-2-3 on that team. Ference occupied the middle-ground between them and McQuaid/Redden. In fact when Hamilton was in the lineup it was Ference getting bottom-pairing minutes.

I compare him to a prime Steve Staios. By no means the best player on any top-4 pairing, but someone who is steady and dependable in a 4/5 role.

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09-16-2013, 08:42 AM
  #195
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Was pitkanen that guy who took games off anytime he sneezed?

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09-18-2013, 01:49 PM
  #196
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LOL @ the Ference love.

Our best defenseman since Pronger? Do people not remember Pitkanen? Visnovsky? Hell, even Smid and Petry are better than him right now. Prime Gilbert and Grebeshkov were also a formidable duo for a season. Sheldon Souray in his one All-Star year for us as well.

#2/3 Dman for Boston? Try #4. A sheltered #4.

Chara-Seidenberg-Boychuk were the de-facto 1-2-3 on that team. Ference occupied the middle-ground between them and McQuaid/Redden. In fact when Hamilton was in the lineup it was Ference getting bottom-pairing minutes.

I compare him to a prime Steve Staios. By no means the best player on any top-4 pairing, but someone who is steady and dependable in a 4/5 role.


he is what he is. if people liked jason smith... that is what you are getting. this is a playoff player; unlike pitkannen and vis.

people are exaggerating on both sides of the scale.

mentally --he wont pull up lame like pitk, and wont pout or mope like whitney. physically he is mobile hard nosed and thinks and executes consistently. once his teammates understand what Ference CAN do consistently they will gel better offensively. Ference isnt one of those guys that goes outside of his skill set, he stays with what he is best at. Dont look for long lead passes unless theres a wide degree of inaccuracy allowed on the play. Look for him being mobile and using his d partner to open options. This is precisely the type of hockey i want to see... i have never liked watching coaches allow their forwards to spread themselves from support.

ive always preferred dmen...that play d. i would love to, in addition, get boychuk from bos.

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Old
09-18-2013, 07:35 PM
  #197
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At this point, I think a wild card spot is most likely in terms of making the playoffs.

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Old
10-29-2013, 09:34 PM
  #198
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So... are there any optimists left? I could use some cheering up, this is worse even than I thought it'd be.

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10-30-2013, 01:57 AM
  #199
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Team is not improved at all

Injuries of Gagner,Smyth, Hall and RNH has lead to situation where first 20+ games Oilers are not improved at all

Coach and GM are also worse than last year. Team is maybe better than last year if you think skill but it has more holes too

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10-30-2013, 08:26 AM
  #200
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Thread Necromancer strikes again.

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