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The Michael McCarron Thread - Part II : Bigger, Stronger and Meaner

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09-10-2013, 09:05 AM
  #951
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Originally Posted by Souffle View Post
This stuff about McCarron fighting has gotten a little out of hand. If he turns out to be a fighter, then he'll probably turn out to be a not-so-great pick.

As I see it, all you really want from a guy like McCarron is a willingness to fight for himself so that he can play a big man's game. Let him make his space around the net. Let him run a few guys into the boards. If he can answer for himself to just about whoever the other team puts on the ice to "send a message", then he'll be fine.

Basically, I think of a true power forward, in the mould of Nolan, Roberts, Shanahan, Neely and others, as a skilled forward with a physical edge who can look after himself against tough players. If McCarron gets anywhere close to those guys -- all 40+ goal scorers, 180+ PIMS -- then he'll be a real asset because in any given game he'll score on you, run your best player, and then punch you back when you send your muscle after him.

I think you really only hope that a guy like him can be enough of a fighter to play fearless. A guy that big, with some decent skill, playing fearless, is going to have an impact on most games.
Agreed 100% about the misconception of McCarron as some kind of fighter. If that's his goal, Montreal will have wasted a pick. Playing tough and fighting are two very different things; we need more of the former from guys like McCarron. I doubt he'll ever be close to a 40-goal scorer like the players you mentioned, but if he can learn to "play a big man's game", as you said, then we will have filled a glaring hole in our lineup. Let him become a 3rd-line shutdown player who puts up 40-50 points.

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09-10-2013, 09:19 AM
  #952
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Nobody wants McCarron to be just a fighter....personally if he can develop into a Bryan Bickell type with more fighting ability i will be quite pleased.

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09-10-2013, 09:52 AM
  #953
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Originally Posted by Patty Roy View Post
Nobody wants McCarron to be just a fighter....personally if he can develop into a Bryan Bickell type with more fighting ability i will be quite pleased.
Yeah if he's as effective and productive than Bickell and a fine fighting ability and willingness, I would think that's a pretty good pick, especially if you factor the needs of this team in the last decade.

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09-10-2013, 10:21 AM
  #954
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Players of his size usually mobility and quickness are issues becoming good NHLers

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09-10-2013, 12:49 PM
  #955
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Originally Posted by Souffle View Post
This stuff about McCarron fighting has gotten a little out of hand. If he turns out to be a fighter, then he'll probably turn out to be a not-so-great pick.

As I see it, all you really want from a guy like McCarron is a willingness to fight for himself so that he can play a big man's game. Let him make his space around the net. Let him run a few guys into the boards. If he can answer for himself to just about whoever the other team puts on the ice to "send a message", then he'll be fine.

Basically, I think of a true power forward, in the mould of Nolan, Roberts, Shanahan, Neely and others, as a skilled forward with a physical edge who can look after himself against tough players. If McCarron gets anywhere close to those guys -- all 40+ goal scorers, 180+ PIMS -- then he'll be a real asset because in any given game he'll score on you, run your best player, and then punch you back when you send your muscle after him.

I think you really only hope that a guy like him can be enough of a fighter to play fearless. A guy that big, with some decent skill, playing fearless, is going to have an impact on most games.
I'm not sure I get your point.

He needs to be able to fight, once he gets here he'll be the biggest guy on the team, so he should be a feared fighter who can take care of himself and help defend teammates. Doesn't mean he'll be the next Parros. He can be a bigger/badder version of Lucic who can play top 6 and still be a top fighter.

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09-10-2013, 01:06 PM
  #956
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I'm not sure I get your point.

He needs to be able to fight, once he gets here he'll be the biggest guy on the team, so he should be a feared fighter who can take care of himself and help defend teammates. Doesn't mean he'll be the next Parros. He can be a bigger/badder version of Lucic who can play top 6 and still be a top fighter.
If he was expected to be a bigger badder version of lucic, he would have been a top 10 pick. That's expecting a little too much.

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09-10-2013, 01:16 PM
  #957
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Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
If he was expected to be a bigger badder version of lucic, he would have been a top 10 pick. That's expecting a little too much.
Well not necessary, Lucic was drafted in the 2nd round and I don't think they projected him to be more than a 3rd line grinder type of guy. Reason McCarron was drafted in the bottom of the first was because of some shortcomings in his game, they seem to be ironing out. I do think that he can become a Lucic type player, dare I say even better than Lucic.

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09-10-2013, 01:20 PM
  #958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I'm not sure I get your point.

He needs to be able to fight, once he gets here he'll be the biggest guy on the team, so he should be a feared fighter who can take care of himself and help defend teammates. Doesn't mean he'll be the next Parros. He can be a bigger/badder version of Lucic who can play top 6 and still be a top fighter.
Its really amazing, i just cant understand why people feel this way

he doesnt NEED to be able to fight anything ...if hes gonna fight ok, he can tussle when he wants, whenever the oppurtunity arises, its up to him and thats ok, if he wants to tango with guys like lucic so be it and good luck

but he doesnt NEED to do or be anything... (xcept stand in front of the net)

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09-10-2013, 01:27 PM
  #959
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I really hope he's not dressed against Lucic in training camp. It would make me lose faith that Therrien has any form of intelligence.

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09-10-2013, 01:28 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Patty Roy View Post
Nobody wants McCarron to be just a fighter....personally if he can develop into a Bryan Bickell type with more fighting ability i will be quite pleased.
I'd like a first round pick to have a little more skill than Bryan Bickell, but it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. We don't need first line level offense from him, but it would be nice if he's more than a grinder.

Fighting should be an afterthought. His priority should be using his size and strength to destroy everything around the net and in the corners. Obviously if he is a good enough fighter to keep us from fielding a useless goon, perfect, but I hope he doesn't spend his time in London gooning it up instead of developing his skill.

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09-10-2013, 03:19 PM
  #961
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
I'd like a first round pick to have a little more skill than Bryan Bickell, but it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. We don't need first line level offense from him, but it would be nice if he's more than a grinder.

Fighting should be an afterthought. His priority should be using his size and strength to destroy everything around the net and in the corners. Obviously if he is a good enough fighter to keep us from fielding a useless goon, perfect, but I hope he doesn't spend his time in London gooning it up instead of developing his skill.
I'm hoping he can become a bigger, meaner Ryan Malone. A more offensive Bickell would be nice. Let's face it though, just getting an NHLer at 25 overall is above average, most probably.

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09-10-2013, 03:19 PM
  #962
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Originally Posted by Richiebottles View Post
Well not necessary, Lucic was drafted in the 2nd round and I don't think they projected him to be more than a 3rd line grinder type of guy. Reason McCarron was drafted in the bottom of the first was because of some shortcomings in his game, they seem to be ironing out. I do think that he can become a Lucic type player, dare I say even better than Lucic.
this post makes no sense. youre comparing him to lucic now, after his metoeric rise post draft. you are saying a player that projects to be a better lucic might go later in the draft which is nonsense, theyd for sure go top 10.

your second point is also off...mccarron hasnt even played a real game post draft...how can it possibly seem like he has ironed out his shortcomings? from watching a rookie camp?

it also goes without saying that anyone whose big *could* be a better lucic, but it is very, very unlikely. to the point where its not really worth saying. he *could* be a better version of a lot of players.

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09-10-2013, 03:44 PM
  #963
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I'm not sure I get your point.

He needs to be able to fight, once he gets here he'll be the biggest guy on the team, so he should be a feared fighter who can take care of himself and help defend teammates. Doesn't mean he'll be the next Parros. He can be a bigger/badder version of Lucic who can play top 6 and still be a top fighter.
A 'feared fighter' will end up fighting goons -- big friggin deal. Are you saying we wasted a 1st-round pick on another George Parros? I don't give a damn if nobody fears McCarron's fists, as long as they do fear his body in front of their net. He's here to play tough, not fight tough.

And I really don't get the fascination with Milan Lucic. The guy had one 30-goal season, hardly elite. The fact that he fights is entertaining but it didn't improve his mediocre play last season.

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09-10-2013, 04:19 PM
  #964
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
A 'feared fighter' will end up fighting goons -- big friggin deal. Are you saying we wasted a 1st-round pick on another George Parros? I don't give a damn if nobody fears McCarron's fists, as long as they do fear his body in front of their net. He's here to play tough, not fight tough.

And I really don't get the fascination with Milan Lucic. The guy had one 30-goal season, hardly elite. The fact that he fights is entertaining but it didn't improve his mediocre play last season.
There is nothing wrong with hoping that Mccaron can add fighting to his repertoire . Not essential, but nicely complementary . It would be a great day to see the Habs have an advantage in the on- ice psych warfare dept. Not interested in gooning it up but solid deterrents would have helped with Ottawa.

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09-10-2013, 04:21 PM
  #965
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
There is nothing wrong with hoping that Mccaron can add fighting to his repertoire . Not essential, but nicely complementary . It would be a great day to see the Habs have an advantage in the on- ice psych warfare dept. Not interested in gooning it up but solid deterrents would have helped with Ottawa.
yup!

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09-10-2013, 04:25 PM
  #966
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
There is nothing wrong with hoping that Mccaron can add fighting to his repertoire . Not essential, but nicely complementary . It would be a great day to see the Habs have an advantage in the on- ice psych warfare dept. Not interested in gooning it up but solid deterrents would have helped with Ottawa.
Agree with most of your post, except the part about fighting helping us against Ottawa. IMO, the moment we started fighting the game was lost, regardless of whose fists connected. Montreal won all those games by sticking to a disciplined system; when our guys lost their tempers they lost their system.

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09-10-2013, 05:30 PM
  #967
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Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
If he was expected to be a bigger badder version of lucic, he would have been a top 10 pick. That's expecting a little too much.
That's why I said CAN not WILL. His development will dictate if he reaches that level.

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09-10-2013, 05:40 PM
  #968
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
There is nothing wrong with hoping that Mccaron can add fighting to his repertoire . Not essential, but nicely complementary . It would be a great day to see the Habs have an advantage in the on- ice psych warfare dept. Not interested in gooning it up but solid deterrents would have helped with Ottawa.
The only that would have helped is Prust going after Neil who was hacking some of our best/smallest players.

I like the fact that they dropped the gloves and stood up for each other. The winning or losing of fights gets blown way out of proportion here. Guys like Thornton lose more fights than they win but he's been hailed as a top enforcer the last 5-7 years, he does his job and knows how to play but he's not a dominant fighter.

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09-10-2013, 06:25 PM
  #969
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Agree with most of your post, except the part about fighting helping us against Ottawa. IMO, the moment we started fighting the game was lost, regardless of whose fists connected. Montreal won all those games by sticking to a disciplined system; when our guys lost their tempers they lost their system.
I agree, if we stuck to our game those losses wouldn't have been such blowouts. Therrien, Gionta and our assistants need to do a better job of keeping our guys under control.

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09-10-2013, 06:41 PM
  #970
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I'm hoping he can become a bigger, meaner Ryan Malone. A more offensive Bickell would be nice. Let's face it though, just getting an NHLer at 25 overall is above average, most probably.
A more skilled Bickell or a bigger Malone would be perfect. A 40-something point guy is very good for what else he brings. It's possible he can become more than that, but like Lucic himself, it's a matter of randomness at that point. I'm still not convinced if Bickell will regularly keep his recent offensive output up.

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09-11-2013, 08:54 AM
  #971
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this post makes no sense. youre comparing him to lucic now, after his metoeric rise post draft. you are saying a player that projects to be a better lucic might go later in the draft which is nonsense, theyd for sure go top 10.

your second point is also off...mccarron hasnt even played a real game post draft...how can it possibly seem like he has ironed out his shortcomings? from watching a rookie camp?

it also goes without saying that anyone whose big *could* be a better lucic, but it is very, very unlikely. to the point where its not really worth saying. he *could* be a better version of a lot of players.
McCarron is closer to being that player at 18 than Lucic was...doesn't mean he'll be as good or better, but he has a lot of upside.

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09-16-2013, 08:08 AM
  #972
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Question for the experts. He will be in London this year but do the Habs have the power to put him in Hamilton next year if he progresses enough?

i think they do since he came out of the US Junior program...

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09-16-2013, 08:24 AM
  #973
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Question for the experts. He will be in London this year but do the Habs have the power to put him in Hamilton next year if he progresses enough?

i think they do since he came out of the US Junior program...
I believe they do, because he signed a pro contract...he signed a 3 yr deal...

He had a decent game last night, and showed he has a physical side to his game, his skating as everyone talks about, will have to improve, but hopefully he progresses well during the next 2-3 yrs...

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09-16-2013, 08:27 AM
  #974
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Originally Posted by thomashefe View Post
this post makes no sense. youre comparing him to lucic now, after his metoeric rise post draft. you are saying a player that projects to be a better lucic might go later in the draft which is nonsense, theyd for sure go top 10.

your second point is also off...mccarron hasnt even played a real game post draft...how can it possibly seem like he has ironed out his shortcomings? from watching a rookie camp?

it also goes without saying that anyone whose big *could* be a better lucic, but it is very, very unlikely. to the point where its not really worth saying. he *could* be a better version of a lot of players.
There is no need to be hostile, I am just projecting what McCarron can become, like everyone else is at this point. And his game has become better from 6 months ago.

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09-16-2013, 08:35 AM
  #975
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Question for the experts. He will be in London this year but do the Habs have the power to put him in Hamilton next year if he progresses enough?

i think they do since he came out of the US Junior program...
Why would they push for that? Het gets to play with 2 other 1st round pcks for the next 2 years in an offensive role for the perfect coaches to help him perfect HIS kind of game..

HF

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