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Old
09-16-2013, 11:13 AM
  #76
HTTP 400
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Originally Posted by Tyson View Post
Huge Bouillon fan but IMO Tinordi should have his spot, but MT will ride Cubes no matter what.
Looks like Bouillon will be playing as a RD, so technically speaking, Murray is the one taking Tinordi's spot on the blue line.

As much as I love Tinordi, it might be risky to play him on his opposite side. That's probably what MT also thinks.

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09-16-2013, 11:13 AM
  #77
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A FAiR AMOUNT ?
Anything more than 1 I consider to be a lot.


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09-16-2013, 11:14 AM
  #78
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Would Therrien ask Bouillon to be the 7th D if Tinordi makes it impossible to be sent down?

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09-16-2013, 11:15 AM
  #79
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That's far from being as bad as you guys say. He's not any worst than Diaz for the number of mistake he makes.
Without using any advanced stats, just from viewing all the games, I'd say that Bouillon makes more mistakes than Diaz. However Diaz should statistically be making more, since he's more of a PMD compared to Bouillon.

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09-16-2013, 11:15 AM
  #80
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Not sure how I feel about Hudon-Dumont-Thomas on the same line.

EDIT: That said, Tinordi-Dietz intrigues me as a D pairing.

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Old
09-16-2013, 11:15 AM
  #81
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Saw Mayer post a 65 save shutout a few years ago. Unreal night.

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09-16-2013, 11:16 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Did anyone actually think Diaz was anything but horrible though? I mean at least Nygren had an excuse.

Bouillon and Murray are both useful bottom pairing defenders, it's overuse or even worse, them together that terrifies me. This team is packed to the brim with 6th and 7th defenders.
Once again, it's not as bad as you make it out to be. Murray - Diaz wouldn't be any better. Diaz - Bouillon neither. I'd also hope to see Pateryn with Murray instead of Bouillon, but used 16-17 minutes per game each, they shouldn't be a pain on the ice. Especially since they'll be matched against physical lines from the other team.

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09-16-2013, 11:20 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Without using any advanced stats, just from viewing all the games, I'd say that Bouillon makes more mistakes than Diaz. However Diaz should statistically be making more, since he's more of a PMD compared to Bouillon.
PMD's tend to be better at advanced stats and related metrics because they measure puck possession and PMD's tend to be better at clearing the zone and helping the team get SOG in the offensive zone.

There's a quote from Dave Tippet somewhere where he talks about a guy who was supposed to be a great defensive D-man and they had another guy who was a PMD in the Weber mold (soft PMD who isn't good defensviely). They ended up keeping the PMD because the defensive D-man was always hemmed in his own zone because he can't move the puck. The PMD wasn't good defensively, but he wasn't defending very often because he was good at getting the puck out of the zone in the first place.

But yeah, advanced stats or eye test or whatever evaluation you choose, it's pretty clear that Diaz was better than Bouillion last season.

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09-16-2013, 11:23 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Noob616 View Post
PMD's tend to be better at advanced stats and related metrics because they measure puck possession and PMD's tend to be better at clearing the zone and helping the team get SOG in the offensive zone.

There's a quote from Dave Tippet somewhere where he talks about a guy who was supposed to be a great defensive D-man and they had another guy who was a PMD in the Weber mold (soft PMD who isn't good defensviely). They ended up keeping the PMD because the defensive D-man was always hemmed in his own zone because he can't move the puck. The PMD wasn't good defensively, but he wasn't defending very often because he was good at getting the puck out of the zone in the first place.

But yeah, advanced stats or eye test or whatever evaluation you choose, it's pretty clear that Diaz was better than Bouillion last season.
The way people speak, he's not even in the same league as Bouillon.

Advanced stats don't count the number of times a player keeps skating behind his net when one of the players in driving the crease. It doesn't count the way a guy softly can't keep the zone on the PP, like he did yesterday for the goal on the PK they scored.

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09-16-2013, 11:26 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
I thought Nygren was 'ok' for his first foray into NHL action. Diaz was brutal. Just brutal.

Hopefully it's just first game hiccups.
I fail to see how Nygren was "horrible" yesterday, like several people said he was yesterday in the PGT. He looked pretty darn fine to me.

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09-16-2013, 11:26 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by HTTP 400 Bad Request View Post
Looks like Bouillon will be playing as a RD, so technically speaking, Murray is the one taking Tinordi's spot on the blue line.

As much as I love Tinordi, it might be risky to play him on his opposite side. That's probably what MT also thinks.
MT had no issue playing Tinordi on RD last year, when he was up here, MT moved Bouillon to LD and played Tinordi on RD.

Best solution to to get rid of Daiz, he is a pending UFA, he is soooooft, weak, brings nothing that we don't have, he should return us a nice draft pick or prospect because if his low cap hit, teams won't have an issue bring him in.

Go with

Gorges Subban
Markov Tinordi
Murray Bouillon

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09-16-2013, 11:26 AM
  #87
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1- Subban
2- Markov
3- Gorges
4- Tinordi
5- Diaz
6- Murray
7- Bouillon
8- Drewiske

VS

1- Chara
2- Seidenberg
3- Boychuk
4- Krug
5- Hamilton
6- McQuaid
7- Bartkowski
8- ?

VS

1- Phaneuf
2- Franson
3- Gunnarsson
4- Liles
5- Gardiner
6- Fraser
7- Ranger(?)
8- Holzer

I don't think we look that bad, even without Emelin. With Emelin our D looks even better.

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Old
09-16-2013, 11:29 AM
  #88
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Nygren was not bad last night

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Old
09-16-2013, 11:30 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noob616 View Post
PMD's tend to be better at advanced stats and related metrics because they measure puck possession and PMD's tend to be better at clearing the zone.

There's a quote from Dave Tippet somewhere where he talks about a guy who was supposed to be a great defensive D-man and they had another guy who was a PMD in the Weber mold (soft PMD who isn't good defensviely). They ended up keeping the PMD because the defensive D-man was always hemmed in his own zone because he can't move the puck. The PMD wasn't good defensively, but he wasn't defending very often because he was good at getting the puck out of the zone in the first place.

But yeah, advanced stats or eye test or whatever evaluation you choose, it's pretty clear that Diaz was better than Bouillion last season.
Bouillon is also hired as PMD isn't he ?

He isn't a bruiser, a stay-at-home, played the 2nd unit PP last year (well probably replacing Diaz due to injury). For myself, I feel more comfortable with Bouillon on the ice than Diaz, simply for the fact that Diaz is soft and Bouillon is 'less' soft. Both should be replaced by a much stronger D on the bottom pairing. What's fun to see is that there are a couple possible replacement for those guys in Tinordi and Pateryn as soon as this year, possibly Dietz and Thrower in a couple a years. I'm still intrigued as to what Drewiske can bring also, but he seems nervous and tentative, might be a confidence problem.

Also, let's not forget Diaz' suicide pass to Eller in the playoffs, advanced stats aren't the end all be all to judge a player. That pass really hurt the whole team, much more than a goal scored against or a fumbled puck in a corner. Those are errors with a big fat 'E' on them. One error like this and you fail your exam, even if everyting else is perfect. Bouillon didn't hurt the team as much as Diaz did in that sense, he has experience and is a more rounded defenseman.

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09-16-2013, 11:30 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyson View Post
Nygren was not bad last night
You're blind.

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Old
09-16-2013, 11:33 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
MT had no issue playing Tinordi on RD last year, when he was up here, MT moved Bouillon to LD and played Tinordi on RD.

Best solution to to get rid of Daiz, he is a pending UFA, he is soooooft, weak, brings nothing that we don't have, he should return us a nice draft pick or prospect because if his low cap hit, teams won't have an issue bring him in.

Go with

Gorges Subban
Markov Tinordi
Murray Bouillon
Diaz might be soft but we need that 3rd d-man who can actually do something with the puck. It's been ONE pre season game and everyones ready to throw him away. So ridiculous. Give him atleast 20 games to see if he can get back to the way he was playing before concussion.

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09-16-2013, 11:34 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Prusty8 View Post
You're blind.

Agreed, Nygren isn't NHL ready as much as he claims he is. He really didn't look very good, made bad first passes, wich is the only thing I'd ask a rookie D in his first game. Just calm down, keep it simple, passes on the tape, if unable clear it down the boards. He turned it over a couple of times, wasn't physical, disapointed after hearing him clamoring being NHL ready to the media.

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09-16-2013, 11:34 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagistitsyn View Post
Diaz might be soft but we need that 3rd d-man who can actually do something with the puck. It's been ONE pre season game and everyones ready to throw him away. So ridiculous. Give him atleast 20 games to see if he can get back to the way he was playing before concussion.
You would never give Douglas Murray 20 games before judging his game.

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09-16-2013, 11:34 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by SmurfsFTW View Post
Bouillon is also hired as PMD isn't he ?

He isn't a bruiser, a stay-at-home, played the 2nd unit PP last year (well probably replacing Diaz due to injury). For myself, I feel more comfortable with Bouillon on the ice than Diaz, simply for the fact that Diaz is soft and Bouillon is 'less' soft. Both should be replaced by a much stronger D on the bottom pairing. What's fun to see is that there are a couple possible replacement for those guys in Tinordi and Pateryn as soon as this year, possibly Dietz and Thrower in a couple a years. I'm still intrigued as to what Drewiske can bring also, but he seems nervous and tentative, might be a confidence problem.

Also, let's not forget Diaz' suicide pass to Eller in the playoffs, advanced stats aren't the end all be all to judge a player. That pass really hurt the whole team, much more than a goal scored against or a fumbled puck in a corner. Those are errors with a big fat 'E' on them. One error like this and you fail your exam, even if everyting else is perfect. Bouillon didn't hurt the team as much as Diaz did in that sense, he has experience and is a more rounded defenseman.
I also agree. Neither D is perfect, but Bouillon will win more one on ones, and the zone will be tougher to gain against him.

It depends of the game the team is playing, but in the end, it's foolish to suggest Diaz is notches above Bouillon as a player. He's not.

I don't care about a d-man who doesn't throw a damn hit. I'm a huge fan of Markov. But for christ sake, try NOT to be soft with the puck, on your passes or when you try to keep the puck in the offensive zone. Diaz is doing ALL of those things softly. It's as if a player could whistle and knock the puck off his stick by doing at the blueline. This, plus he has the very bad tendency to pass the puck like a hot potatoe each time he feels like he's about to get hit.

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09-16-2013, 11:35 AM
  #95
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Diaz will be fine.

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09-16-2013, 11:36 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Prusty8 View Post
You would never give Douglas Murray 20 games before judging his game.
.. What?

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09-16-2013, 11:38 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Dagistitsyn View Post
.. What?
Would you give Douglas Murray 20 games before starting to judge his game? I don't think so.

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09-16-2013, 11:38 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Dagistitsyn View Post
Diaz might be soft but we need that 3rd d-man who can actually do something with the puck. It's been ONE pre season game and everyones ready to throw him away. So ridiculous. Give him atleast 20 games to see if he can get back to the way he was playing before concussion.
I get the feeling that Diaz is starting to feel pressure from the competition of other Ds and that is not good for his decision making and smarts, wich is his bread and butter.

I really don't see anything special in this player and hopefully we trade him for a pick because he hits UFA at the end of the year if I'm not wrong, so we might lose his rights for nothing.

Common MB, offer Diaz to the 'canes, they're in need D on their PP.

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Old
09-16-2013, 11:39 AM
  #99
habs03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagistitsyn View Post
Diaz might be soft but we need that 3rd d-man who can actually do something with the puck. It's been ONE pre season game and everyones ready to throw him away. So ridiculous. Give him atleast 20 games to see if he can get back to the way he was playing before concussion.
We actually don't need a 3rd puck mover, seeing how the pairings have been, it seems like to want to go with Gorges Subban Murray with Bouillon, and Markov with Daiz, image that pair around the net, Much rather a Markov Tinordi pairing than Markov Daiz

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09-16-2013, 11:40 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Prusty8 View Post
Would you give Douglas Murray 20 games before starting to judge his game? I don't think so.
Uhh okay? Yes I would actually. They've both proven they can be good NHL players, so I would definitely give them a decent amount of games to get their **** together before looking at moving them just because they had a few bad games. Especially Diaz. Murray might be a different story if its because of his lack of foot speed.. not much can be done about that.

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