HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Bo Horvat vs the World (Nichushkin mostly)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-16-2013, 12:17 PM
  #51
geoo9
Registered User
 
geoo9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: rusland
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 449
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarpan View Post
Plus I don't think Horvat has a chance to do anything with those linemates anyway. If we're going to judge him relative to Nichushkin based on his ability to produce in one game with Weise and Sestito, that's pretty silly.
Mate did y see who was on ice when Nich scores ?
1 st 4th liners prospects
2 nd he doi ll alone

geoo9 is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:19 PM
  #52
Samzilla
Registered User
 
Samzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 9,311
vCash: 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
I didn't say Nichushkin's 2 goals necessarily meant anything significant. I just want to see if Horvat has an answer for it. That's my prerogative.
Did I miss something where Horvat answers to Nichuskin? He answers to Tortorella and Torts' game plan for him. Pretty sure they're two different players expected to play different roles...in different positions no less. Why are we comparing them 1 to 1?

Samzilla is online now  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:19 PM
  #53
NuxFan09
Registered User
 
NuxFan09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,407
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samzilla View Post
I see the art ross race is already boiling down to nichushkin and lapierre.
And I see some people are quite melodramatic.

NuxFan09 is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:20 PM
  #54
Vankiller Whale
Maybe HE can score
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,407
vCash: 5555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
What gems there. Lol.

Quality of competition irrelevant. Impressive vs. a weak line-up. Yup. The standard, or context in which a player plays is vital in judging his play. How could it not make a difference? This the kind of opinion that just lacks any sense in logic whatsoever.
Nichushkin had a great game.

If he had played vs a junior or KHL team and had similar production, it would also have been a great game. Just because the lineup was weak does not change the fact that he played great. Would it have been better if he had scored 2 goals against a team like the Bruins with Rask/Chara/Seidenberg? Sure. But I don't see why people should try to minimize every good thing that Nichushkin does. Yes, there's no conclusions you can draw from just one game, but it was still a very good game for him, in which he went above and beyond what was expected of him.

Vankiller Whale is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:20 PM
  #55
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,464
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
They would've had even less relevant careers if they played like dogs in the pre-season, so what's your point? There are exceptions to every rule. Pre-season success does not directly or automatically lead to a fruitful NHL career, of that I think we're all aware. But does it not add confidence to the prospect in question? And you are simply nuts if you don't think that the guys playing in the games are trying very hard to make an impression. NHL contracts are at stake. Bo Horvat could be an 18 year-old flying around North America, living in Yaletown, and having money to burn, or he could share a 1985 bus with 20 other smelly teenagers and earning no money at all.
So if I play very hard in the pre-season games and Nichushkin scores a hat-trick on me, that concludes him as a great player? I'm not an NHL calibre player, but hey, I'll still be trying very hard right?

__________________
http://www.vancitynitetours.com
y2kcanucks is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:21 PM
  #56
Tiranis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 20,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
They would've had even less relevant careers if they played like dogs in the pre-season, so what's your point? There are exceptions to every rule. Pre-season success does not directly or automatically lead to a fruitful NHL career, of that I think we're all aware. But does it not add confidence to the prospect in question? And you are simply nuts if you don't think that the guys playing in the games are trying very hard to make an impression. NHL contracts are at stake. Bo Horvat could be an 18 year-old flying around North America, living in Yaletown, and having money to burn, or he could share a 1985 bus with 20 other smelly teenagers and earning no money at all.
And neither says anything about how his career will ultimately go. 20 years later, the first version of Horvat could be a guy who never made it past the 3rd line and the 2nd version of Horvat could be a Memorial Cup, Stanley Cup and Olympic Gold winning Selke-calibre center who is up for HHOF consideration.

Jarome Iginla is just one of many successful players who were sent back down to junior. On the other end you have Alexandre Daigle and Patrik Stefan.

Tiranis is online now  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:22 PM
  #57
King of the ES*
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samzilla View Post
Did I miss something where Horvat answers to Nichuskin? He answers to Tortorella and Torts' game plan for him. Pretty sure they're two different players expected to play different roles...in different positions no less. Why are we comparing them 1 to 1?
Because Mike Gillis had the choice to select either of the two. He chose Horvat. Nichushkin being taken immediately after leads to the obvious direct comparison, much like Kopitar/Bourdon, White/Perron, etc.

King of the ES* is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:22 PM
  #58
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
I really wanted Nichushkin at #9, especially since we traded Schneider to get that pick. I felt sick to my stomach when they drafted Horvat instead and was frustrated for a long time after draft day.

If Nichushkin goes on to light it up for the Stars in his rookie season and becomes a big time player in the future, that's going to be a tough one to live down.

2 goals for Nichushkin in his first preseason game? Like another poster said: your move, Horvat.

I felt the exact opposite of this. I cringed at the thought of Nich being taken at #9. Not because I think he will be outright bust, no, but because I wanted a more complete player to build around (among other things).

The second point is something I want to address: Say Nichushkin does become a "big time" player, it won't be tough to live down if Horvat also becomes a very good player. Nichushkin's success alone does not undermine the Horvat pick. He was still picked top10 for a reason. Nor does Nichushkin have to absolutely bust for people to feel good with the Horvat pick. It's not about extremes, it's about what building block the Canucks preferred.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:23 PM
  #59
NuxFan09
Registered User
 
NuxFan09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,407
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samzilla View Post
Did I miss something where Horvat answers to Nichuskin? He answers to Tortorella and Torts' game plan for him. Pretty sure they're two different players expected to play different roles...in different positions no less. Why are we comparing them 1 to 1?
It doesn't matter. If that's what I'm curious to see in this game, that's my business. Why does everyone care so much?

Good lord, who would have thought that ONE comment (Your move, Horvat) could create so much unrest.

NuxFan09 is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:24 PM
  #60
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Nichushkin had a great game.

If he had played vs a junior or KHL team and had similar production, it would also have been a great game. Just because the lineup was weak does not change the fact that he played great. Would it have been better if he had scored 2 goals against a team like the Bruins with Rask/Chara/Seidenberg? Sure. But I don't see why people should try to minimize every good thing that Nichushkin does. Yes, there's no conclusions you can draw from just one game, but it was still a very good game for him, in which he went above and beyond what was expected of him.

Lol keep going.

It's not about minimizing what Nich does, it's about minimizing what every player does in the preseason. Including the mighty Lapierre. But good luck with the crusade.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:24 PM
  #61
King of the ES*
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
So if I play very hard in the pre-season games and Nichushkin scores a hat-trick on me, that concludes him as a great player? I'm not an NHL calibre player, but hey, I'll still be trying very hard right?
Why aren't you an NHL-caliber player? You're playing in an NHL pre-season game, aren't you? You've survived first cuts, haven't you?

King of the ES* is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:27 PM
  #62
NuxFan09
Registered User
 
NuxFan09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,407
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I felt the exact opposite of this. I cringed at the thought of Nich being taken at #9. Not because I think he will be outright bust, no, but because I wanted a more complete player to build around (among other things).

The second point is something I want to address: Say Nichushkin does become a "big time" player, it won't be tough to live down if Horvat also becomes a very good player. Nichushkin's success alone does not undermine the Horvat pick. He was still picked top10 for a reason. Nor does Nichushkin have to absolutely bust for people to feel good with the Horvat pick. It's not about extremes, it's about what building block the Canucks preferred.
Thank you Bleach Clean. You provided the first and only decent, intelligent response to my post. As for the rest, I've been dealing with a bunch of angry bees after apparently stepping in to a nest.

NuxFan09 is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:28 PM
  #63
timorousme
luongod
 
timorousme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,513
vCash: 500
can we just agree to re-open this debate once very two years

timorousme is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:28 PM
  #64
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Why aren't you an NHL-caliber player? You're playing in an NHL pre-season game, aren't you? You've survived first cuts, haven't you?

NHL calibre is surviving first cuts? If so, where are Fedor Fedorov, Steve Kariya, and the litany of other first cut survivors?

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:31 PM
  #65
NuxFan09
Registered User
 
NuxFan09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,407
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by timorousme View Post
can we just agree to re-open this debate once very two years
Hey, I don't think a debate between the two players is necessary. We picked Horvat, he's our guy, I've accepted that now. I just have an honest, harmless curiosity as to the impact of both players in preseason, as meaningless as that might be.

NuxFan09 is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:31 PM
  #66
Bieksa#3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 447
vCash: 500
I was watching the highlights of the Dallas preseason game and Nichushkin's line got scored on for atleast 3 of the goals against. I wonder how his defensive play was.

Bieksa#3 is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:31 PM
  #67
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
Thank you Bleach Clean. You provided the first and only decent, intelligent response to my post. As for the rest, I've been dealing with a bunch of angry bees after apparently stepping in to a nest.

I think you missed the built up tension form a certain summer crusade in the Horvat thread. This is the byproduct of that much as anything else. A lot of posts on here are about a context that isn't immediately apparent. Don't worry about it.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:32 PM
  #68
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,464
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Why aren't you an NHL-caliber player? You're playing in an NHL pre-season game, aren't you? You've survived first cuts, haven't you?
So are Ryan Tesnik, Sebastian Wannstrom, Zach Pochiro, and Jani Hakanpaa (amongst several others) NHL calibre players?

y2kcanucks is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:32 PM
  #69
arsmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 16,709
vCash: 500
Anyone here actually watch the game? I saw the highlights. Good highlights for sure, but can you really tell if somebody had a "great" game from that and a boxscore?

He looked as I expected him too, big, strong, and fast.

Anyone saying he was playing with plugs...do you really consider Jamie Benn a plug?

arsmaster is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:35 PM
  #70
NuxFan09
Registered User
 
NuxFan09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,407
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I think you missed the built up tension form a certain summer crusade in the Horvat thread. This is the byproduct of that much as anything else. A lot of posts on here are about a context that isn't immediately apparent. Don't worry about it.
Gotcha.

NuxFan09 is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:39 PM
  #71
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Anyone here actually watch the game? I saw the highlights. Good highlights for sure, but can you really tell if somebody had a "great" game from that and a boxscore?

He looked as I expected him too, big, strong, and fast.

Anyone saying he was playing with plugs...do you really consider Jamie Benn a plug?

Apparently, the box score and highlights are enough to tell if somebody had a great game. Level of competition irrelevant.

DAL will be an interesting test case this year. They moved a high end 2way talent in Eriksson for more of a 1way guy in Seguin (plus other stuff). Then they picked a 1way talent top 10. I'd like to see what the _team_ does as a result of this. Will they miss Eriksson or will Seguin and Nichushkin more than make up the difference? Interesting team to watch this year.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:41 PM
  #72
Vankiller Whale
Maybe HE can score
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,407
vCash: 5555
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Anyone here actually watch the game? I saw the highlights. Good highlights for sure, but can you really tell if somebody had a "great" game from that and a boxscore?

He looked as I expected him too, big, strong, and fast.

Anyone saying he was playing with plugs...do you really consider Jamie Benn a plug?
I saw the highlights too, and everyone I've seen post(both Stars and Blues fans) who saw the game also said he had a great game as well, so I'd have to think that if everyone says he had a great game, and he scored 2 goals(and had 9 SOG), that it's more than reasonable to assume he had a great game.

Also, I can't verify for a fact, but their projected lines had Nichushkin playing with Horcoff and Eakins, but I can't say for sure as to whether or not he did play mostly with those players for the duration of the game.

Vankiller Whale is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:46 PM
  #73
NuxFan09
Registered User
 
NuxFan09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,407
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I saw the highlights too, and everyone I've seen post(both Stars and Blues fans) who saw the game also said he had a great game as well, so I'd have to think that if everyone says he had a great game, and he scored 2 goals(and had 9 SOG), that it's more than reasonable to assume he had a great game.

Also, I can't verify for a fact, but their projected lines had Nichushkin playing with Horcoff and Eakins, but I can't say for sure as to whether or not he did play mostly with those players for the duration of the game.
Personally, to me that makes sense. A lot of people are quicker to diminish his performance than those who are quick to praise it. That's the irony here.

NuxFan09 is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:49 PM
  #74
King of the ES*
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
So are Ryan Tesnik, Sebastian Wannstrom, Zach Pochiro, and Jani Hakanpaa (amongst several others) NHL calibre players?
Well, the point is that he's not playing against a bunch of slouches that don't even belong in the same rink. These are guys who are good enough to wear an NHL pre-season jersey, good enough to shutout Jamie Benn, etc. As much as you seemingly want to deny and dismiss, a 2-goal, 9-shot performance in your first "professional" outing after being drafted is very, very impressive.

If Horvat does the same thing, tonight, there will be a lot of justifiable excitement around him.

King of the ES* is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:49 PM
  #75
timorousme
luongod
 
timorousme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,513
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I think you missed the built up tension form a certain summer crusade in the Horvat thread. This is the byproduct of that much as anything else. A lot of posts on here are about a context that isn't immediately apparent. Don't worry about it.
yeah, this is scapegoating to draw a line in the sand so this doesn't get out of control by October.

timorousme is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:56 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.