HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Habs vs Bruins - Subban vs Subban (7:00pm on RDS & TSN2)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-16-2013, 11:58 AM
  #176
Andy
Registered User
 
Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,646
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Play with semantics as much as you want, I for one don't think Diaz is more useful on the ice than those two in all 82 games.
1.It's not a matter of playing with semantics, but of you making links that I haven't made.

2.Okay, you don't think Diaz is more useful, doesn't mean I don't think you're still completely off-base.

Andy is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:01 PM
  #177
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draft View Post
So we love to bash our defenceman, they're all either one dimensional, mediocre at their position or small. We need another player to anchor our second pairing or compliment Subban on our top pairing. I think we can all agree that Diaz, Bouillon, Murray, Emelin, Drewiskie are more suited to complimentary or depth roles, Markov doesn't fit moving into the future as a big minute defenceman, and our rookies shouldn't be rushed and likely couldn't do the job anyways.

Does anyone have ideas for a two-way #2 defenceman that could be acquired? That seems to be our biggest need.
Braydon Cobourn. That's the guy I wanted us to go after.

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:03 PM
  #178
Forsead
Registered User
 
Forsead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Québec City
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,189
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmurfsFTW View Post
Do you consider Diaz a vet ? I still consider him a prospect.
He doesn't have much experience in the NHL, but a guy that is 27 years old and that had 10 season of pro hockey under his belt is a vet IMO which mean some advantages and disavantages. Also, he played in two season (yes he got hurt so didn't played all the games, but still it's two season) were he was clearly of NHL level and did well playing 18 minutes in his first season and 20+ in his second.

It's the same way that Darche always has been considered a veteran, being a veteran doesn't mean you are assured to play though.

Forsead is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:04 PM
  #179
Dont Poke Subban
Registered User
 
Dont Poke Subban's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,033
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draft View Post
Well, to me, I want Tinordi to reach the highest level of his potential and not pigeon-hole him into becoming only a shutdown dman, I think there's some potential he can grow offensively and more skilled. If he can develop his playmaking skills and become a more capable defenceman in all regards, playing a fully capable two-way game, all the better. I think he has a better chance at reaching his potential playing in Hamilton. So I think it would just be a question of whether you value Montreal's performance now over developing Tinordi as a prospect. Both are important!
You do make a good point, but I also see Tinordi as a future top pairing dman who wil play next to PK. PK provides the scoring while Tinordi shuts down the other teams' top lines. Nice combo, right? Besides, we'll have Beaulieu too, who will provide scoring as a 2nd pairing dman. But anyway, good talk, no name callings..lol. I guess im just more excited for next year than this year. GHG!

Dont Poke Subban is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:05 PM
  #180
Forsead
Registered User
 
Forsead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Québec City
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,189
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Braydon Cobourn. That's the guy I wanted us to go after.
I can't see the Flyers trading that guy, especially with Timonen and Meszaros as possible UFAs. Grossman will be the man out IMO.

Forsead is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:06 PM
  #181
hototogisu
Global Moderator
Poked the bear!!!!!
 
hototogisu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,935
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Braydon Cobourn. That's the guy I wanted us to go after.
Philly's defense is too thin as it is, they would never trade Coburn unless they got a massive overpayment.

hototogisu is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:10 PM
  #182
SmurfsFTW
DD for Masterton
 
SmurfsFTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,109
vCash: 500
I want Ryan Mcdonaugh for our #2 spot.

SmurfsFTW is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:11 PM
  #183
Habz2006
Registered User
 
Habz2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 89
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Play with semantics as much as you want, I for one don't think Diaz is more useful on the ice than those two in all 82 games.



In any way, I don't think it's fair to say Diaz is better than those two, as there are a very fair amount of games where Diaz will be useless. If there's a difference between those d-men, who all have their weaknesses of their own, it's only marginal.

I have read this entire exchange and I am really confused as to why someone would question Diaz's importance to this team ... Did you forget that while Subban was sitting and waiting for his contract issue to be resolved, Diaz stepped in quite well ?? His stats while Subban was gone:

6GP - 8 PTS playing close to 20 mins a game.

Is he great defensively ? NO ... he is actually below average I would say but he IS USEFUL because of his offensive game and we dont have many of those besides Subban/Markov. I think you are underestimating how important he is to the Canadiens. A more ready Beautieu would def. be an upgrade but dont say Bouillon has more importance to the habs when we already have Murray, Tinordi and Gorges as defensive specialists.

Habz2006 is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:14 PM
  #184
HiggsBozon
LOLZ, keep hating
 
HiggsBozon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,001
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habz2006 View Post
I have read this entire exchange and I am really confused as to why someone would question Diaz's importance to this team ... Did you forget that while Subban was sitting and waiting for his contract issue to be resolved, Diaz stepped in quite well ?? His stats while Subban was gone:

6GP - 8 PTS playing close to 20 mins a game.

Is he great defensively ? NO ... he is actually below average I would say but he IS USEFUL because of his offensive game and we dont have many of those besides Subban/Markov. I think you are underestimating how important he is to the Canadiens. A more ready Beautieu would def. be an upgrade but dont say Bouillon has more importance to the habs when we already have Murray, Tinordi and Gorges as defensive specialists.
I never talked about individual importance for each player. I just mentioned I don't think Diaz is significantly better than Bouillon. And in some games, Bouillon might be even more needed than Diaz.

Once again, 9 of his 11 first assists were secondary. I just can't judge the offensive prowess of a guy like this based on 2nd assists, most of which benifitted from the attention Markov got.

HiggsBozon is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:19 PM
  #185
Habz2006
Registered User
 
Habz2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 89
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
I never talked about individual importance for each player. I just mentioned I don't think Diaz is significantly better than Bouillon. And in some games, Bouillon might be even more needed than Diaz.

Once again, 9 of his 11 first assists were secondary. I just can't judge the offensive prowess of a guy like this based on 2nd assists, most of which benifitted from the attention Markov got.
Well you can't really compare the two because one is an OFD and the other a DFD. You can make an argument and say that Bouillon is the more responsible D and makes less errors which is true HOWEVER I can say Diaz is much better on the PP. Therefore ..... it boils down to whom is more important for the habs to have in their lineup.

Habz2006 is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:29 PM
  #186
ak90210
Registered User
 
ak90210's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
I never talked about individual importance for each player. I just mentioned I don't think Diaz is significantly better than Bouillon. And in some games, Bouillon might be even more needed than Diaz.

Once again, 9 of his 11 first assists were secondary. I just can't judge the offensive prowess of a guy like this based on 2nd assists, most of which benifitted from the attention Markov got.
Diaz and Bouilon don't belong in the same sentence. Diaz is way better offensively, defensively and is great at moving the puck up ice transitioning from offence to defence.

ak90210 is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:32 PM
  #187
HiggsBozon
LOLZ, keep hating
 
HiggsBozon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,001
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ak90210 View Post
Diaz and Bouilon don't belong in the same sentence. Diaz is way better offensively, defensively and is great at moving the puck up ice transitioning from offence to defence.
Good Lord. "Way better. Great at... Don't belong in the same sentence.". You'd actually think he was our best d-man in last years' playoffs reading that, not our worst.

HiggsBozon is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:40 PM
  #188
Draft
Registered User
 
Draft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,973
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmurfsFTW View Post
I want Ryan Mcdonaugh for our #2 spot.
He would have been perfect.....

So Coburn is out because of Philly's putrid defence and therefore they have little interest in trading him.

Any chance we can poach one of Vancouver's big 3? Bieksa, Hamhuis, Edler

Only UFA targets would be Girardi and Phaneuf.

Draft is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:55 PM
  #189
Adriatic
Registered User
 
Adriatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,563
vCash: 500
The PK show starts tonight I guess. After watching the game last night, Drewiski sucks, Diaz sucks, Tinordi is slower than a turtle, Markov we know is made out of glass...all I can say is I hope PK is ready for the season cause he'll be playing about 35 min per game.

Adriatic is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 12:55 PM
  #190
MasterDecoy
Carlos Danger
 
MasterDecoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Beijing
Posts: 9,675
vCash: 1707
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmurfsFTW View Post
I want Ryan Mcdonaugh for our #2 spot.
oh man up, that was like a million years ago, PUT THOSE TEARS BACK WHERE THEY CAME FROM

MasterDecoy is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 01:05 PM
  #191
SouthernHab
Registered User
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 9,541
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habz2006 View Post
I have read this entire exchange and I am really confused as to why someone would question Diaz's importance to this team ... Did you forget that while Subban was sitting and waiting for his contract issue to be resolved, Diaz stepped in quite well ?? His stats while Subban was gone:

6GP - 8 PTS playing close to 20 mins a game.

Is he great defensively ? NO ... he is actually below average I would say but he IS USEFUL because of his offensive game and we dont have many of those besides Subban/Markov. I think you are underestimating how important he is to the Canadiens. A more ready Beautieu would def. be an upgrade but dont say Bouillon has more importance to the habs when we already have Murray, Tinordi and Gorges as defensive specialists.
Diaz is a barely average offense only DMan. DMen like that on a team are acceptable if you have a rock solid defense as a whole

We dont have that yet here in Montreal so we cannot afford that luxury.

I would much rather prefer to give up the few potential points that he will deliver and replace that with someone who is more defensively oriented.

I watched Tinordi skate the puck up the ice yesterday. He is more than adequate in that job. He is also superior to Diaz defensively.

Diaz and Drewiske are Depth. DDD.

Try to move Diaz this season. Gradually we will get away from the concept of trying to win Cups with undersized DMen who really dont play defense.

SouthernHab is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 01:08 PM
  #192
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
I can't see the Flyers trading that guy, especially with Timonen and Meszaros as possible UFAs. Grossman will be the man out IMO.
There was a lot of talk about him being available. Flyers are right at the cap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Philly's defense is too thin as it is, they would never trade Coburn unless they got a massive overpayment.
It's irrelevant anyway... we don't have the cap space for him. No point in really discussing it as I don't see how we could add him.

He's definitely the kind of guy we could've used though. Good defensively with at least a little offensive skill. He would've helped tremendously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmurfsFTW View Post
I want Ryan Mcdonaugh for our #2 spot.
Yeah. He would've helped tremendously too..

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 01:08 PM
  #193
Adriatic
Registered User
 
Adriatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,563
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ak90210 View Post
Diaz and Bouilon don't belong in the same sentence. Diaz is way better offensively, defensively and is great at moving the puck up ice transitioning from offence to defence.
Only problem is he's afraid of his own shadow. He's another October champion we have in our lineup that can't and won't ever be useful in the playoffs.

Adriatic is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 01:09 PM
  #194
SouthernHab
Registered User
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 9,541
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habz2006 View Post
Well you can't really compare the two because one is an OFD and the other a DFD. You can make an argument and say that Bouillon is the more responsible D and makes less errors which is true HOWEVER I can say Diaz is much better on the PP. Therefore ..... it boils down to whom is more important for the habs to have in their lineup.
Defense wins championships.

Offense makes for great highlight YouTube videos.

Montreal has the offensive firepower if you look at last season. We lost in the playoffs because our defense was over-matched. Price needs help.

SouthernHab is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 01:12 PM
  #195
SmurfsFTW
DD for Masterton
 
SmurfsFTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,109
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Defense wins championships.

Offense makes for great highlight YouTube videos.

Montreal has the offensive firepower if you look at last season. We lost in the playoffs because our defense was over-matched. Price needs help.
I so agree with this. Sick and tired of soft players. I want a talented, hard working, tough line up.

SmurfsFTW is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 01:12 PM
  #196
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Defense wins championships.

Offense makes for great highlight YouTube videos.

Montreal has the offensive firepower if you look at last season. We lost in the playoffs because our defense was over-matched. Price needs help.
No doubt our D needs big time help. But I find folks underrate offense. You can't win if you can't score. Problem is that in the playoffs you score by getting in the opposing goalie's grill. We don't do this and other teams do. That's what kills us. And yeah, Price is completely left on his own and it sucks.

And I don't see it being much different this year either. We're still not built for the postseason.

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 01:15 PM
  #197
SmurfsFTW
DD for Masterton
 
SmurfsFTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,109
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriatic View Post
Only problem is he's afraid of his own shadow. He's another October champion we have in our lineup that can't and won't ever be useful in the playoffs.
Yeah and we can even say that Diaz totally screwed us in last season's POs with his suicide pass to Eller. He is not only not helping, he broke the team's morale by himself. Habs never recovered, they were all out trying to make the Sens pay wich isn't their game.

SmurfsFTW is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 01:15 PM
  #198
Draft
Registered User
 
Draft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,973
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Defense wins championships.

Offense makes for great highlight YouTube videos.

Montreal has the offensive firepower if you look at last season. We lost in the playoffs because our defense was over-matched. Price needs help.
This isn't football.

One of the biggest reasons why we had such a good offence is because of how well our team could distribute the puck. Our very capable PMD/OFD pushed the rush and aided in creating sustainable pressure in the offensive zone.

It's also a big reason why we won our last cup IIRC.


Last edited by Draft: 09-16-2013 at 01:21 PM.
Draft is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 01:16 PM
  #199
Adriatic
Registered User
 
Adriatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,563
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Defense wins championships.

Offense makes for great highlight YouTube videos.

Montreal has the offensive firepower if you look at last season. We lost in the playoffs because our defense was over-matched. Price needs help.
Problem is most people on here seem to be a little too impressed when a player gets a few power play points in October and seem to quickly forget how atrocious we are in our zone every playoffs

Adriatic is offline  
Old
09-16-2013, 01:18 PM
  #200
Draft
Registered User
 
Draft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,973
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
No doubt our D needs big time help. But I find folks underrate offense. You can't win if you can't score. Problem is that in the playoffs you score by getting in the opposing goalie's grill. We don't do this and other teams do. That's what kills us. And yeah, Price is completely left on his own and it sucks.

And I don't see it being much different this year either. We're still not built for the postseason.
Getting in the goalies grill and getting pucks on net from the point. Our forwards are not good enough to be solely depended on for our offence.

Draft is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:16 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.