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Nothing is more frustrating then being a Habs Fan in BC

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Old
11-20-2006, 01:22 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
lets not even go there

you are opening a whole new can of worms
Please tell me you aren't an NDP supporter. For the love of god, please tell me this isn't true.

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Old
11-20-2006, 01:23 PM
  #52
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Please tell me you aren't an NDP supporter. For the love of god, please tell me this isn't true.

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Old
11-20-2006, 02:46 PM
  #53
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The real shame isn't the CBC not broadcasting any more games but that Bell Media could have enough influence as to get the SRC to abandon La Soirée du Hockey. Yeah, that`s freemarket and all and if Bell could buy amphitheatre, sport broadcaster (RDS) and humungous satellite equipment (express vu), that's their 'god given right' to refuse to simulcast with SRC (or make it pricey enough that they won't have to).

Still it sucks.

La Soirée du Hockey, like HNIC by the way, is about as old as TV in Canada. There was Hockey on SRC/CBC in those years when there wasn't more than 4 or 5 hours of broadcast a day. It's frickin cultural, I can't believe they *completely* dropped it.

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Old
11-20-2006, 03:54 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by skidboot View Post



LOL.


I still hate the fact that Expressvu is showing the Leafs on CBC Montreal.

and, no.....I won't get RDS.....I'm a cheap SOB.
6$ a month... 6$ a month.. thats 3 large coffee's, at Tim Horton's, or one Tall Grande @ Starbucks.

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Old
11-20-2006, 04:13 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post

Okay, let's make this simpler: let's ignore the fact that Toronto is a much larger city than Montreal. Let's assume, for the sake of simplicity, that Toronto and Montreal have the same population watching the games, even though we should all know Toronto, with a far larger market, has a larger fanbase.
Like Jean Drapeau said:

"-Let Toronto become Milano, Montreal will always be Rome!"

In your face

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11-20-2006, 05:23 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
6$ a month... 6$ a month.. thats 3 large coffee's, at Tim Horton's, or one Tall Grande @ Starbucks.
It's what I call man math. I'd galdly buy you an $8 beer but I'll stretch out my razor for 3 extra shaves when it's hacking chunks off of my face.

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Old
11-20-2006, 05:30 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
Like Jean Drapeau said:

"-Let Toronto become Milano, Montreal will always be Rome!"

In your face
Mind you, Jean Drapeau did plenty wrong for this city.

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Old
11-20-2006, 09:58 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Let's consider this carefully.

Would you say the Toronto Maple Leafs market is larger or smaller than Montreal's?

...even though we should all know Toronto, with a far larger market, has a larger fanbase.

Let's say 1.5 million people tune in to watch the Leafs.

Let's also say 1.5 million people tune in to watch the Habs.

Let's say CBC is debating whether to televise the Leafs or the Habs and they want to determine which audience will be larger, but given the fact that both fanbases consistently have 1.5 million people tuning in, they need to dig a little deeper. Two factors wind up swaying the CBC executives' minds:

(1) - Whattyaknow! RDS also has rights to all Montreal games! So of those 1.5 million viewers, some percentage of them will watch it on RDS! Instantly, this means Toronto is the more attractive market to capture, because CBC will have exclusive rights to the game, whereas they would not with a Montreal game.

(2) - Ohh! And the vast majority of the Montreal fanbase are french-speakers, which is coincidentally the language of RDS! Meaning we can safely assume that a majority of those french-speakers will be watching the game in their native tongue on their familiar television station.




I see your point now. It is ridiculous. Because, well, it just is!

It's not impossible to know that Toronto has a larger captive market, and that CBC has competition in Montreal. CBC also knows HNIC has lost popularity in Montreal. They may know they have themselves to blame, but that doesn't matter: Montreal is not a good market for them. They have too much competition. It's simple logic.



By the way, even if we ignore the fact that CBC can use some simple logic to know their ratings are best in Toronto, they can also look to TSN's ratings of Habs games and Leafs games. Toronto attracted more viewers there too. Again, no surprise: the familiarity and language is in favour of RDS over TSN. It's not close to a fair fight.

Mike,
I agree 100% with you regarding the fact that the Leafs have the largest English language fan base in Canada, but I will not accept even for a split second the imperative statement that they have a larger total fanbase. Such contentions appear on the surface to be very common-sensical but the The Habs consistently average the highest TV viewership audience of any Canadian hockey team, at least according to the Toronto Sun columnist Al Strachan (...even most Habs games are not televised in English in Canada!).

And even though the Leafs play 4 games in the much larger Bell Centre, Montreal averages higher attendance on the road, both in % capacity and real numbers (again, despite the fact that this stat includes the Leafs 4 road games in Montreal's huge building compared to the Habs 4 games in their smaller building). Those stats are from espn.com and appear to be consistent as far back as they are calculated.

When confronted with Strachan's statements and other arguments, the only responses I have ever received are regarding % capacity at home, merchandise sales numbers, ad hominem attacks n the apparently "anti-Leaf" Strachan, and also arguments appealing to "common sense" regarding the Toronto market size. None of those are legitimate premises for any conclusion. % capacity at home is simplay a function of what capacity your home rink declares compared to how many people you stuff in there. It tells you nothing. Merchandise sale numbers give you an idea of the spending power of a fanbase, not any indication of how large it is. Ad Hominem attacks are not a defeat of any argument, and appeals to common sense without any further evidence are just non-sense. They are even more non-sensical when there is evidence to contradict them, such as Strachan's reporting of the numbers and also the road attendance figures.

The myth that the Leafs have more fans than the Habs is based on nothing. Nada. It's based on the toronto media's own self-absorbant conjecture and assumptions.


Last edited by Catch-22: 11-20-2006 at 10:07 PM.
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Old
11-20-2006, 10:13 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
Mike,
I agree 100% with you regarding the fact that the Leafs have the largest English language fan base in Canada, but I will not accept even for a split second the imperative statement that they have a larger total fanbase. Such contentions appear on the surface to be very common-sensical but the The Habs consistently average the highest TV viewership audience of any Canadian hockey team, at least according to the Toronto Sun columnist Al Strachan (...even most Habs games are not televised in English in Canada!).

And even though the Leafs play 4 games in the much larger Bell Centre, Montreal averages higher attendance on the road, both in % capacity and real numbers (again, despite the fact that this stat includes the Leafs 4 road games in Montreal's huge building compared to the Habs 4 games in their smaller building). Those stats are from espn.com and appear to be consistent as far back as they are calculated.

When confronted with Strachan's statements and other arguments, the only responses I have ever received are regarding % capacity at home, merchandise sales numbers, ad hominem attacks n the apparently "anti-Leaf" Strachan, and also arguments appealing to "common sense" regarding the Toronto market size. None of those are legitimate premises for any conclusion. % capacity at home is simplay a function of what capacity your home rink declares compared to how many people you stuff in there. It tells you nothing. Merchandise sale numbers give you an idea of the spending power of a fanbase, not any indication of how large it is. Ad Hominem attacks are not a defeat of any argument, and appeals to common sense without any further evidence are just non-sense. They are even more non-sensical when there is evidence to contradict them, such as Strachan's reporting of the numbers and also the road attendance figures.

The myth that the Leafs have more fans than the Habs is based on nothing. Nada. It's based on the toronto media's own self-absorbant conjecture and assumptions.
Interesting.

Well, I'm fully prepared to concede this point. I don't know whether Toronto has a larger fanbase than Montreal or vice versa. And really, it doesn't have any impact on my point regarding CBC, but it is interesting nonetheless.

If you still have Strachan's article/data, I'd like to see it (not because I don't believe you).

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Old
11-20-2006, 10:16 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
Mike,
I agree 100% with you regarding the fact that the Leafs have the largest English language fan base in Canada, but I will not accept even for a split second the imperative statement that they have a larger total fanbase. Such contentions appear on the surface to be very common-sensical but the The Habs consistently average the highest TV viewership audience of any Canadian hockey team, at least according to the Toronto Sun columnist Al Strachan (...even most Habs games are not televised in English in Canada!).

And even though the Leafs play 4 games in the much larger Bell Centre, Montreal averages higher attendance on the road, both in % capacity and real numbers (again, despite the fact that this stat includes the Leafs 4 road games in Montreal's huge building compared to the Habs 4 games in their smaller building). Those stats are from espn.com and appear to be consistent as far back as they are calculated.

When confronted with Strachan's statements and other arguments, the only responses I have ever received are regarding % capacity at home, merchandise sales numbers, ad hominem attacks n the apparently "anti-Leaf" Strachan, and also arguments appealing to "common sense" regarding the Toronto market size. None of those are legitimate premises for any conclusion. % capacity at home is simplay a function of what capacity your home rink declares compared to how many people you stuff in there. It tells you nothing. Merchandise sale numbers give you an idea of the spending power of a fanbase, not any indication of how large it is. Ad Hominem attacks are not a defeat of any argument, and appeals to common sense without any further evidence are just non-sense. They are even more non-sensical when there is evidence to contradict them, such as Strachan's reporting of the numbers and also the road attendance figures.

The myth that the Leafs have more fans than the Habs is based on nothing. Nada. It's based on the toronto media's own self-absorbant conjecture and assumptions.
Thats interesting info, thanks.

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Old
11-20-2006, 10:54 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Interesting.

Well, I'm fully prepared to concede this point. I don't know whether Toronto has a larger fanbase than Montreal or vice versa. And really, it doesn't have any impact on my point regarding CBC, but it is interesting nonetheless.

If you still have Strachan's article/data, I'd like to see it (not because I don't believe you).

It's a 2004 article. I don't have the original anymore but here's a web page that cites what he says: http://www.channelcanada.com/Article440.html

This page itself is not the source, but I read the article and the quote is verbatim (sp?):

In Montreal, there is a strong sense that the team is not only part of the community, it is part of the cultural fabric of the province -- or of the nation if your thoughts take a separatist bent.

The Canadiens draw more television viewers than any team in the country and their attendance is the highest in the league. In announcing the acquisition of Kovalev, general manager Bob Gainey made it clear that this was very much a public-relations gesture, a move made to thank the fans for their support and to show them the team will try its best to show its gratitude.


-Al Strachan, 2004


24 Cups are not easy to forget. You might also be interested in this anecdote. The original link is also dead now, but it is cited here: http://www.cbcwatch.ca/?q=node&from=1811

More than 4 million Canadians watched Game 7 of the Bruins-Canadiens series. CBC drew 2.293 million for the national telecast, while RDS attracted a record audience of 1.8 million. It's interesting to note that the Canadiens game outdrew Game 7 of the Maple Leafs-Senators series, which attracted 3.769 million viewers on CBC.


^In the 2004 playoffs, Montreal alone outdrew the combined markets featured in the oh-so great battle of Ontario. I wonder what would happen if you added the US-Boston broadcast to our numbers?



.


Last edited by Catch-22: 11-20-2006 at 11:11 PM.
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Old
11-20-2006, 11:26 PM
  #62
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Some road attendance figures:


Montreal vs. Toronto attendance on road (% capacity):

2005-2006

6. Montreal 94.4%
14. Toronto 92.7%
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attend..._pct&year=2006


2003-2004

2. Montreal 97.3%
9. Toronto 92.1%
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attend..._pct&year=2004




Montreal vs. Toronto attendance on road (average)
2005-2006
4. Montreal 17,432
6. Toronto 17, 342
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attend..._avg&year=2006


2003-2004
3. Montreal 17, 482
6. Toronto 16,893
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attend..._avg&year=2004


.

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Old
11-20-2006, 11:57 PM
  #63
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Please tell me you aren't an NDP supporter. For the love of god, please tell me this isn't true.

Without getting into too much detail... as a person who is studying environmental engineering, I'm very upset towards the Liberal attitude in terms of the environment at a time when the environment is such a huge issue. Anything for the dollar, basically.

We are well on our way in becoming one of the top 3 provinical polluters per capita if something is not done.

Whether its the BC liberals or the NDP, this issue cant be ignored.

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