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2013-2014 Roster Discussion III

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Old
09-15-2013, 08:10 AM
  #76
deeshamrock
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I didn't know there was rule that said only 10 minutes a night for fourth lines.
It's not a rule, but 10 mins is the average for most 4th lines, and it's slightly over what Fraser's line averaged last year at 9:22 per game

http://makewayforthekings.com/articl...ies-once-again

With his aforementioned average ice time of 9:22 last season, it is a clear indication that Fraser let his limited time on the ice count as he proved just a little more to his team that being a line-filler for his team’s third or fourth line.

Fraser did make use of this limited minutes, with the second highest amount of hits per minute on the team, behind only Kyle Clifford:
http://lakingsinsider.com/2013/07/06...tion-fraser-2/


. He was a physical presence when called upon and recorded a “hit” for every 4:29 he was on the ice this season. Only Kyle Clifford, who registered one hit every for every 3:17 of ice time, logged more hits per minute on the team –


the fourth line disproportionately opened shifts against easier competition and in the offensive zone.

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09-15-2013, 08:28 AM
  #77
butteryslugz
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i had a long drawn out post of playing the fourth line more but my cpu froze upo and wont rewreite it....

basically what deeshamrock said and toffoli wont be an offensive threat on the fourth line cause he wont be playing with guys who can compliment and maximize his skill set.

the biggest problem however is that we would have to take minutes away from our top 9 and more importantly our top 6 just so toffoli can play on the fourth line with energy/role players. yup genius ideas to get our offense going. terrible proposal.

we need a fourth line that will chip n chase and play a heavy north south game. offense should not be a priority for the fourth line. look how effective fraser and nolan were for us in our cup run. and think of what a force the CPR line was against the kings. that physical dynamic is extremely important for the kings and thats a dynamic that toffoli lacks. and thats not a knock on toffoli he just doesnt belong in the role of a 4RW.


Last edited by butteryslugz: 09-15-2013 at 08:34 AM.
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Old
09-15-2013, 11:22 AM
  #78
The Black1963
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While I agree that having TT on the 4th line doesn't make much sense, you do realize that he can also get some pp time and even play with other line combos increasing his toi right?

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09-15-2013, 11:39 AM
  #79
Johnny Utah
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TT won't start on the 4th line. Sutter will put him in Mancheter before that happens.

I have posted numerous times, the Kings have 9 NHL d-men, 13 forwards and one forward in Kozun who will have to pass waivers. No way Vey makes the team and I don't even see how TT pencils in right now unless Brown is injured.

DL would have to trade 2 d-man for TT to make it or 1 d-man and 1 forward.

Kopitar
Brown
Williams
Frattin
Richards
Carter
King
Stoll
Lewis
Clifford
Carcillo
Fraser
Nolan

That's 13. Then you have Kozun who is waiver eligible.

On D we have...

Doughty
Voynov
RR
Mitchell
Greene
Muzzin

Thats 6. Then we have 3 extra in Martinez, Ellerby and Schultz.

When the regular season starts Kings have to get down to 2 spare forwards and 1 spare D OR 2 spare D and 1 spare forward. Sutter said he is leaning toward 2 spare D. So that doesn't leave room for Kozun or TT. Plus we are over the cap and TT makes more than Carcillo, Frattin, Fraser, Nolan and King.


Last edited by Johnny Utah: 09-15-2013 at 11:48 AM.
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Old
09-15-2013, 11:49 AM
  #80
Peter James Bond
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsHockey24 View Post
Tbh, I honestly believe that the Kings would do just fine without King and Fraser..
(Meaning that we should trade them)

This is how I feel it would look like without them. (Still a very good roster Imo)

Brown-Kopitar-Williams
Frattin-Richards-Carter
Clifford-Stoll-Toffoli
Carcillo-Lewis/Andreoff-Nolan
I like this the best. Fraser and King should be replaced...unless they both outplay every other player listed in your bottom 7 here. I think Toffoli should be on the team, unless he has a very poor camp. As some have said, he doesn't belong on the 4th line, yet could get decent minutes on the third line and he's not a liability defensively and should stay at his natural RW.
The possibility of seeing these lines above, is not great, in that Sutter loves King and likes Lewis as his 3rd line RW. The Kings bottom 6 was probably last or in the bottom 10% in the NHL in producing offense. At least with Toffoli and Carcillo in this bottom 6, there will be somewhat better production.

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Old
09-15-2013, 11:50 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
TT won't start on the 4th line. Sutter will put him in Mancheter before that happens.

I have posted numerous times, the Kings have 9 NHL d-men, 13 forwards and one forward in Kozun who will have to pass waivers. No way Vey makes the team and I don't even see how TT pencils in right now unless Brown is injured.

DL would have to trade 2 d-man for TT to make it or 1 d-man and 1 forward.

Kopitar
Brown
Williams
Frattin
Richards
Carter
King
Stoll
Lewis
Clifford
Carcillo
Fraser
Nolan

That's 13. Then you have Kozun who is waiver eligible.

On D we have...

Doughty
Voynov
RR
Mitchell
Greene
Muzzin

Then we have 3 extra in Martinez, Ellerby and Schultz.

When the regular season starts Kings have to get down to 2 spare forwards and 1 spare D OR 2 spare D and 1 spare forward. Sutter said he is leaning toward 2 spare D. So that doesn't leave room for Kozun or TT. Plus we are over the cap and TT makes more than Carcillo, Frattin, Fraser, Nolan and King.
LA is not over Cap the Cap is counting 24 players at the end the CAP is suppose to only count 23 players they have to cut one from that list so they are under the CAP.

Los Angeles Kings » $64,386,894 -$86,894 24

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Old
09-15-2013, 12:33 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by butteryslugz View Post
toffoli on the 4th line?? some of you guys have gone off the deep end. why would we give our most naturally gifted goal scorer a max of 10 minutes a night? #offseasonproblems
Well, DL has suggested that himself. Even using Doug Gilmour as an example. He has to earn his dues, cause dean runs this organization like a union....seniority counts.

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Old
09-15-2013, 07:03 PM
  #83
Trolfoli
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Wait I got the solution

Brown/Kopitar/Williams
Frattin/Richards/Carter
Clifford/Vey/Toffoli
King/Stoll/Lewis
Carcillo, Nolan

There Toffoli's on the 3rd line!!!! Everyone happy now. Anyone notice if Clifford was going to be playing with Vey tonight? Just currious.

edit: http://lakingsinsider.com/2013/09/14...darryl-sutter/

Sutter Interview:
"[Reporter: So is the thought to start the year with eight defensemen?] I really don’t know that yet. I mean, if you start with eight, then you’re going 13 forwards, so I really don’t know. We’re not to that point yet."

Doesn't sound to me that Sutter is 100% committed to going with 8D at the start of the season.


Last edited by Trolfoli: 09-15-2013 at 07:10 PM.
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Old
09-15-2013, 07:13 PM
  #84
Ziggy Stardust
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In former Kings news, Jeff Zatkoff hasn't looked very sharp in his pre-season game against the Blue Jackets.

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Old
09-15-2013, 07:15 PM
  #85
Peter James Bond
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhino 350 View Post
Wait I got the solution

Brown/Kopitar/Williams
Frattin/Richards/Carter
Clifford/Vey/Toffoli
King/Stoll/Lewis
Carcillo, Nolan

There Toffoli's on the 3rd line!!!! Everyone happy now. Anyone notice if Clifford was going to be playing with Vey tonight? Just currious.

edit: http://lakingsinsider.com/2013/09/14...darryl-sutter/

Sutter Interview:
"[Reporter: So is the thought to start the year with eight defensemen?] I really don’t know that yet. I mean, if you start with eight, then you’re going 13 forwards, so I really don’t know. We’re not to that point yet."

Doesn't sound to me that Sutter is 100% committed to going with 8D at the start of the season.
But now there's no toughness and no heavy hitters on line 4. King is a 230 lb marshmallow. I think they are higher on Andreoff making the team, than Vey and DL would never have a 3 million dollar, 4th line center. Andreoff is a center, but can play LW. I would rather have him at 4th line ctr, than Fraser.

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Old
09-16-2013, 07:47 PM
  #86
deeshamrock
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In former Kings news, Jeff Zatkoff hasn't looked very sharp in his pre-season game against the Blue Jackets.
\

and Jon Bernier had a very good 1st start for the Leafs tonight, played half the game and had 15 saves. The only goal he gave up was deflected in by one of his teammates (Fraser) From the fans who say it, Bernier had yelled for Fraser to get out of the way, which Fraser didn't and ended up deflecting it in.
But the Leafs comments on the HF were great, they liked what they saw. They were impressed with his being so technically sound, his denying rebounds and puck handling.

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09-16-2013, 08:04 PM
  #87
Trolfoli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeshamrock View Post
\

and Jon Bernier had a very good 1st start for the Leafs tonight, played half the game and had 15 saves. The only goal he gave up was deflected in by one of his teammates (Fraser) From the fans who say it, Bernier had yelled for Fraser to get out of the way, which Fraser didn't and ended up deflecting it in.
But the Leafs comments on the HF were great, they liked what they saw. They were impressed with his being so technically sound, his denying rebounds and puck handling.
Glad Bernier had a good showing... wish him the best....

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09-16-2013, 11:47 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter James Bond View Post
But now there's no toughness and no heavy hitters on line 4. King is a 230 lb marshmallow. I think they are higher on Andreoff making the team, than Vey and DL would never have a 3 million dollar, 4th line center. Andreoff is a center, but can play LW. I would rather have him at 4th line ctr, than Fraser.
Andreoff is already more dynamic than Fraser (which isnt saying much). Fraser was a wreck in the defensive zone all last year, I'm okay with waiving him if double A can keep it up

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09-17-2013, 08:04 AM
  #89
The Black1963
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Originally Posted by KBA4life View Post
Andreoff is already more dynamic than Fraser (which isnt saying much). Fraser was a wreck in the defensive zone all last year, I'm okay with waiving him if double A can keep it up
I wouldn't be surprised at all to see AA make the team out of camp.

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09-17-2013, 09:33 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Rhino 350 View Post
Glad Bernier had a good showing... wish him the best....
Also secretly wish he was still with the team. Best goalie style in the league, hands down. Those all-white pads... unreal.

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Old
09-17-2013, 11:48 AM
  #91
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Also secretly wish he was still with the team. Best goalie style in the league, hands down. Those all-white pads... unreal.
Except they're not Vaughn, which means he's kind of an idiot.

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09-17-2013, 05:53 PM
  #92
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Except they're not Vaughn, which means he's kind of an idiot.
That's not what a lot of people who have tried the new CCMs have said.

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Old
09-17-2013, 06:37 PM
  #93
Trolfoli
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http://mayorsmanor.com/2013/09/check...y-tested-knee/

WM doesn't want to do the Bike test from fear of hyper-extending his knee...

If going full out on a stationary bike concerns WM. How does he think he's going to skate at game speed without hesitating? I would love WM back, but he still has yet to play in a preseason game. Makes me think he's probably not ready. Hope Schults looks good out there...

Be nice to watch the game... Outside of me getting off my butt and driving down there, don't think it's going to happen. Why would anyone stream the feed over the internet?

Damn I'm in a bad mood..

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Old
09-17-2013, 07:26 PM
  #94
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Ouch. Not a good sign.

Schultz or Ellerby will def get that spot it's open...over Martinez since they each play a similar game to Mitchell....

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Old
09-17-2013, 07:40 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Ouch. Not a good sign.

Schultz or Ellerby will def get that spot it's open...over Martinez since they each play a similar game to Mitchell....
Mitchell is done. It's why Schultz was brought in.

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09-17-2013, 07:54 PM
  #96
The Black1963
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Some of you guys are funny.

Mitchell says he's "feeling great", and apparently, Sutter's going to bring him along slow and steady, rather than to rush him. I don't know about you guys, but I see that as a good thing.

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09-17-2013, 08:16 PM
  #97
Ziggy Stardust
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I'd say Mitchell gets in about 50 or so games this season and Schultz is there to fill in for spot duty whenever necessary as he's far more proven and NHL tested than Ellerby.

Should anything happen to Mitchell, Schultz steps in his place and Ellerby shifts up as the regular healthy scratch, ala Davis Drewiske.

One of Muzzin or Martinez will be gone by October as they're competing to pin down that LD spot next to Matt Greene.

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09-17-2013, 08:22 PM
  #98
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does muzzin have to pass thru waivers?

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09-17-2013, 08:24 PM
  #99
Ziggy Stardust
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeeking View Post
does muzzin have to pass thru waivers?
He certainly does. All of those fighting for a spot on the blueline, Martinez, Muzzin, Ellerby, Schultz, Bodnarchuk and Campbell all have to pass through waivers.

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09-17-2013, 09:06 PM
  #100
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thanks I couldn't remember.....with that kind of depth we are going to lose one probably two, well DL wanted to be like Detroit......lets hope there is a LW prospect buried somewhere that is in the same boat we can swap for

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