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Old
09-16-2013, 07:09 PM
  #376
Illinihockey
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Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
All I saw was the last 15 minutes and they never had the ball.
I don't know if its fitness or what, but they've sat back in the 2nd half and just conceded possession. Aspas sucks and when he comes on is usually when they get in trouble. Can't wait for Suarez to get back

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09-16-2013, 07:12 PM
  #377
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TEMPE, Ariz. (AP) -- The Pac-12 Conference has reprimanded the officials in Saturday night's game between Wisconsin and Arizona State for their actions in the bizarre closing seconds. The Pac-12 said the officials did not act with enough urgency or properly handle the end of game situation when Wisconsin quarterback Joel Stave awkwardly took a knee and the clock ran out on the Badgers in the ensuing confusion. ''This was an unusual situation to end the game,'' Pac-12 Commissioner Larry Scott said in a statement on Monday. ''After a thorough review, we have determined that the officials fell short of the high standard in which Pac-12 games should be managed. We will continue to work with all our officials to ensure this type of situation never occurs again.''
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/officia...98--ncaaf.html

Do you guys agree with the reprimand?

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09-16-2013, 07:20 PM
  #378
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finally saw the play. that was absolutely horrible.

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09-16-2013, 07:42 PM
  #379
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Pac 12 officials have standards?

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09-16-2013, 10:41 PM
  #380
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Cashner faced the minimum and one hit the Pirates.

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09-17-2013, 01:24 AM
  #381
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Cashner faced the minimum and one hit the Pirates.
Wow. 3.40 1.21 is not bad. Maybe we should have kept him.

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09-17-2013, 09:40 AM
  #382
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Cashner's K numbers scare me considering he's a power pitcher.

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09-17-2013, 09:49 AM
  #383
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He probably could strike more guys out if he wanted to. Pitching in Petco, may as well pitch to contact. It's like Coors Field for pitchers.

Just looked it up:

5.67 K/9 in Petco

7.08 K/9 on the road

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09-17-2013, 09:52 AM
  #384
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
He probably could strike more guys out if he wanted to. Pitching in Petco, may as well pitch to contact. It's like Coors Field for pitchers.

Just looked it up:

5.67 K/9 in Petco

7.08 K/9 on the road
That's still not good. He's going to age very poorly if this continues.

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09-17-2013, 09:56 AM
  #385
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That's still not good. He's going to age very poorly if this continues.
He's still getting used to starting. He has very little experience pitching deep into games.

I don't understand why he has a -2.8 WAR though, 3.21 ERA and 1.15 WHIP, is it that much of a drag on the team??? I've really been seeing a lot of holes in that stat lately, starting to question why anyone even talks about it. What a joke.

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09-17-2013, 10:01 AM
  #386
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Originally Posted by Hawkman View Post
Wow. 3.40 1.21 is not bad. Maybe we should have kept him.
Keep in mind where he pitches

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09-17-2013, 10:07 AM
  #387
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LOL, **** WAR, I am done with that tin foil hat garbage.

Cashner: 3.21 ERA 1.15 WHIP -2.8 WAR

Thank God they have Eric Stults to pick up the slack.

Stults: 4.03 ERA 1.27 WHIP +3.6 WAR, batters hitting .273 against him.

Apparently getting battered like a pitching machine and having a far worse K rate than even Cashner is a good thing.

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09-17-2013, 10:16 AM
  #388
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
LOL, **** WAR, I am done with that tin foil hat garbage.

Cashner: 3.21 ERA 1.15 WHIP -2.8 WAR

Thank God they have Eric Stults to pick up the slack.

Stults: 4.03 ERA 1.27 WHIP +3.6 WAR, batters hitting .273 against him.

Apparently getting battered like a pitching machine and having a far worse K rate than even Cashner is a good thing.
Its because Stults has pitched 17 more innings than him and has 5 more starts. Fangraphs has it 2.0 WAR to 2.4 WAR.

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09-17-2013, 10:18 AM
  #389
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Its because Stults has pitched 17 more innings than him and has 5 more starts. Fangraphs has it 2.0 WAR to 2.4 WAR.
ESPN has it -2.8 to +3.6. 17 more innings and 5 more starts...what, do you earn points just for simply taking the mound, even if you get shelled?

Why are the two sites so different? And secondly, I still don't understand how even fangraphs values Stults that much higher, for innings?

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09-17-2013, 10:21 AM
  #390
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
ESPN has it -2.8 to +3.6. 17 more innings and 5 more starts...what, do you earn points just for simply taking the mound, even if you get shelled?

Why are the two sites so different? And secondly, I still don't understand how even fangraphs values Stults that much higher, for innings?
You're a hockey fan. You should know that ESPN is retarded.

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09-17-2013, 10:25 AM
  #391
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You're a hockey fan. You should know that ESPN is retarded.
Yeah, I guess you can't go on their WAR, that is just the most ridiculous stat I have ever seen, it's always backwards and ****ed up. I'll start going to fangraphs but still, Stults can't hold Cashner's jock this year. No WAR should value him as the better player. If innings are the biggest thing in WAR, nope, sorry. Give me the 5 180 IP 3.20 ERA 1.15 WHIP scrubs, you can have the mop up men that go 7+ innings a game. We'll see who wins more games.

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09-17-2013, 10:25 AM
  #392
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WAR isn't a set stat. Different sites have different algorithms.

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09-17-2013, 10:26 AM
  #393
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His FIP is similar to Cashner's and he's pitched more. It's pretty logical.

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09-17-2013, 10:29 AM
  #394
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Originally Posted by MurrayBannerman View Post
His FIP is similar to Cashner's and he's pitched more. It's pretty logical.
What isn't logical is that anyone with half a brain would agree that a team with 5 Cashners would be leading a team with 5 Stults by 10-15 games at this point, if not more, offense being identical. Isn't that the point of the stat, to tell you which player contributes more to the team success?

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09-17-2013, 10:32 AM
  #395
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
What isn't logical is that anyone with half a brain would agree that a team with 5 Cashners would be leading a team with 5 Stults by 10-15 games at this point, if not more, offense being identical. Isn't that the point of the stat, to tell you which player contributes more to the team success?
No, the Stults team would be winning in a vaccum by a marginal amount of wins, because that's what the stat says. The guys behind Cashner have played better than the guys behind Stults.

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09-17-2013, 10:38 AM
  #396
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
What isn't logical is that anyone with half a brain would agree that a team with 5 Cashners would be leading a team with 5 Stults by 10-15 games at this point, if not more, offense being identical. Isn't that the point of the stat, to tell you which player contributes more to the team success?
Not if they weren't on the mound. A team with 5 Cashners would pitch 85 less innings. Say your average start is 6 innings, thats almost 15 less games pitched.

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09-17-2013, 10:39 AM
  #397
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No, the Stults team would be winning in a vaccum by a marginal amount of wins, because that's what the stat says. The guys behind Cashner have played better than the guys behind Stults.
So what I am gathering is that when the defenders play behind Cashner, they have exceptionally more range, significantly stronger arms, much better gloves, turn double plays way better. I mean, they must if Stults is getting hit 40 points higher and the walk rates are similar.

There is always something missing with WAR when I try to understand it. I need to see the algorithm. I'm grasping at straws here, but I get that sense that when it comes to WAR, a pitcher could retire the first two batters, then an error occurs on batter number 3, followed by the pitcher giving up back to back homers. According to WAR, the back to back homers mean very little, if anything at all since there was an error that would have finished the inning. Am I starting to understand how the stat works? Because that is what it looks like. How does WAR reconcile all of the bad pitching, the countless hits given up?

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09-17-2013, 10:41 AM
  #398
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Defenders play better behind faster pitchers.

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09-17-2013, 10:46 AM
  #399
Illinihockey
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
So what I am gathering is that when the defenders play behind Cashner, they have exceptionally more range, significantly stronger arms, much better gloves, turn double plays way better. I mean, they must if Stults is getting hit 40 points higher and the walk rates are similar.

There is always something missing with WAR when I try to understand it. I need to see the algorithm. I'm grasping at straws here, but I get that sense that when it comes to WAR, a pitcher could retire the first two batters, then an error occurs on batter number 3, followed by the pitcher giving up back to back homers. According to WAR, the back to back homers mean very little, if anything at all since there was an error that would have finished the inning. Am I starting to understand how the stat works? Because that is what it looks like. How does WAR reconcile all of the bad pitching, the countless hits given up?
Stutls' BABIP is .299, Cashner's is .271. Last years Cashner's was .311 and the year before .308. He's having a lucky year with where balls are being hit.

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09-17-2013, 10:46 AM
  #400
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And really, a .4 WAR gap is pretty negligible. Its not like Stults is 4.5 and Cashner is 1.8.

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