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Habs Cuts (28th: Dumont clears waivers)

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Old
09-17-2013, 09:33 AM
  #226
shutehinside
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
the acquisition and signing of Nokelainan was the first LL red flag for me. The second was a lack of planning for an open roster spot for him this year. Yesterday's decision is a clincher for me, LL is not in Montreal's plans. He will move on soon in some minor league transaction.
i can see him moved like Kristo was. One for one prospects that need a new team to move to. Hopefully we can get a prospect who can develp in this new organizations mold and hopefully brings some size.

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09-17-2013, 09:36 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Chris Cutter View Post
It's funny because maybe instead of relying on the consensual opinion, you should check out the games. Leblanc would not look out of place on Boston's bottom 6, what's the difference between Paille or Kelly and Leblanc in terms of physicality?
I don't want to talk about the bruins because I don't watch all of their games and am not 100% familiar with their line-up night in night out. But my guess is Bruins in general have a much grittier and tougher team and probably he would be a better fit with that kind of team where he would have more space. But not with the Habs, we already have too many small forwards that don't hit and can't stand up for themselves, we don't need another one.

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09-17-2013, 09:38 AM
  #228
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With all respect Grant. On this one I do not agree.
LL was a bad pick.
With all due respect - way too early to make that proclamation. You wait a minimum of five years before starting to definitively judge a prospect...it's the tried and true rule of thumb.

Injuries set him back last year..these things happen. Louis showed me as a 20-year-old that he has an NHL future...he played a smart two-way game and did not look out of place. Last year was a setback..he had his sophomore slump and battled injury..not the first prospect to do that and won't be the last.

Do folks already forget that Patch played in Hamilton at 22 after being with the big club? It was only three years ago..are our memories that poor? Leblanc is in the exact same boat.

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09-17-2013, 09:44 AM
  #229
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The problem is we, as fans, have our own expectations and criterias in the evaluation of these young players. They are not just thrown on the ice with no instructions, just asked to "do what they do best" in order to impress journalists, relatives, casual or hardcore fans.

The team is run just like a company, not like a circus. They know about prospects' strengths and weaknesses, and they use training camps to experiment things they couldn't do the rest of the year. The point is not to showcase what most of us here already know and do whatever it takes to win a meaningless game.

We're not there to hear what the coaching staff asks players to focus on. Putting them in an unusual situation is part of the evaluation. If someone is a gifted goalscorer and they ask him to work on the 3rd or 4th line doesn't mean they try to "punish" them. They want to see how they react, if they can stick to a game plan, etc.

From a fan's point of view we could just say "he had a terrible game, no points, no offense" and still the coach could be extremely satisfied. Or the other way around, in Leblanc's case, who knows? You can't always do what you like, or what you're good at. Or they wouldn't call that a job!

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09-17-2013, 09:51 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
Jessica Rusnak was saying this morning that it may have more to do with LL attitude than his abilty.

She was saying he doesn't like the role he's been given as a 3rd liner and he's clashed with Lefebvre in Hamilton over it. The Habs sending him down is a message that he needs an attitude adjustment and that just because he's a 1st rounder, he still needs to earn his spot.

Makes sense to me.
rightfully. I acted the same way when clearly inferior players took my spot or someone else spot when I played football. Sports, especially professional, are about winning. Nothing else.

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Not sure why so many people want to discount last year.

So last year counts for nothing? If Leblanc hadn't been a first-round pick there would be no hullabaloo right now.

There was no spot for Louis coming out of training camp this season based on his performance last year. I'm sure his strong camp didn't go unnoticed however.

Just like Pateryn, who I'm relatively certain will be sent back because of numbers...Leblanc will be given plenty of ice time and opportunity, and now he has to make the most of it. since turning pro Leblanc has failed to put up good offensive numbers - this isn't a sign of them giving up on him..not at all. If they were doing that..they'd keep him with the big club as the 12-13th forward and let him stagnate..showcase him a couple of times..then trade him.

Not many forwards coming off 18-point AHL season are handed NHL jobs the following season - first-round pick or not.

Louis is 22...the majority of prospects do not become NHL regulars until 23-24 years of age, especially ones who needed to mature physically and add muscle.
We're mad at the fact he got one preseason game. The guy didn't play in the rookie camp and he's going to play in the ahl camp now ... Don't see any good for the kid there

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09-17-2013, 09:54 AM
  #231
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Sucks for leblanc

but it honestly looks like theirs only 1 spot available at the moment, and it looks like Bournival and Thomas are in the running for it

hopefully leblanc impreses enough at the AHL level to warant a future call up but as of now its another hill to climb it seems

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09-17-2013, 09:54 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
With all due respect - way too early to make that proclamation. You wait a minimum of five years before starting to definitively judge a prospect...it's the tried and true rule of thumb.

Injuries set him back last year..these things happen. Louis showed me as a 20-year-old that he has an NHL future...he played a smart two-way game and did not look out of place. Last year was a setback..he had his sophomore slump and battled injury..not the first prospect to do that and won't be the last.

Do folks already forget that Patch played in Hamilton at 22 after being with the big club? It was only three years ago..are our memories that poor? Leblanc is in the exact same boat.
Yes you are right he is in the same situation Patch was, still doesn't change the fact that Leblanc doesn't excel at anything. Patch was always a powerful big body skater that could drive the net, something this team desperately lacked and still lacks. Leblanc will never have those physical attributes. He needs to make this team based purely based on his skill or play but there is not one thing he does really well. Average skater, average shot, not very tough, doesn't hit alot. He's just average and will be a depth player. That's fine but I don't think he can be a depth player with Habs.

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09-17-2013, 09:56 AM
  #233
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I am wholeheartedly with Grant on this one. Leblanc is trying out for a spot in the top 6-9, he doesn't belong at the camp and is better suited to playing/starting the year in Hamilton.

Tokarski
Dumont
St-Pierre
Blunden
Tarnasky

Thomas
McCarron

Bournival
Dumont

Nygren - Signed to a PTO after playing in Europe
Holland - I'm not sure he's ever been to a Habs development camp
Collberg - Brought over from Europe and recovering from an injury
Pateryn - Trying out for #7 dman
Tinordi - Trying out for #7 dman

The bolded all need to clear waivers.
The underlined are high-profile prospects acquired within the last year.
The italicized are trying out for a spot on the 4th line.

Leblanc doesn't fit with this group, there's nothing wrong with that and nothing wrong with management's decision to send him back down. Take the tin foil hats off, there's no conspiracy or looming trade.

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09-17-2013, 10:00 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Adriatic View Post
Yes you are right he is in the same situation Patch was, still doesn't change the fact that Leblanc doesn't excel at anything. Patch was always a powerful big body skater that could drive the net, something this team desperately lacked and still lacks. Leblanc will never have those physical attributes. He needs to make this team based purely based on his skill or play but there is not one thing he does really well. Average skater, average shot, not very tough, doesn't hit alot. He's just average and will be a depth player. That's fine but I don't think he can be a depth player with Habs.
I don't think you understand Leblanc's game very well, you should watch him more. His biggest attribute is his ability to win puck battles, something sorely needed on a hockey team. He's an excellent defensive forward and is a very intelligent playmaker. He's a guy that makes the players around him better because of his style of play.

Perfect complimentary winger on a scoring line or a big contributor on a defensive line.

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09-17-2013, 10:07 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Adriatic View Post
Yes you are right he is in the same situation Patch was, still doesn't change the fact that Leblanc doesn't excel at anything. Patch was always a powerful big body skater that could drive the net, something this team desperately lacked and still lacks. Leblanc will never have those physical attributes. He needs to make this team based purely based on his skill or play but there is not one thing he does really well. Average skater, average shot, not very tough, doesn't hit alot. He's just average and will be a depth player. That's fine but I don't think he can be a depth player with Habs.
LeBlanc has three nhl qualities: his drive, his ability to win puck battles and his smarts. It's what got him drafted and it's what will take him to the NHL

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09-17-2013, 10:12 AM
  #236
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Does no one notice Leblanc's lack of explosiveness? My thoughts are that currently with his skill set he could probably compete for a 3rd or fourth line roll but management wants to know if they can get more from him. He does have good hands but doesn't have that NHL caliber speed that most need to be a goal scorer. Maybe he is sent to the AHL to try to work on this so that when he eventually makes the jump permanently he is more than a bottom line winger.

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09-17-2013, 10:14 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
I don't think you understand Leblanc's game very well, you should watch him more. His biggest attribute is his ability to win puck battles, something sorely needed on a hockey team. He's an excellent defensive forward and is a very intelligent playmaker. He's a guy that makes the players around him better because of his style of play.

Perfect complimentary winger on a scoring line or a big contributor on a defensive line.
Well that's your opinion and as of now he hasn't done any of those things successfully at the NHL level. Maybe he's done them well at the junior level but I don't think he can win puck battles and be a good playmaker at the nhl level. Again I'm not talking about if he could do it in october or for a couple of games during the season, can he do it successfully in a playoffs run...don't think so.

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09-17-2013, 10:18 AM
  #238
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rightfully. I acted the same way when clearly inferior players took my spot or someone else spot when I played football. Sports, especially professional, are about winning. Nothing else.


We're mad at the fact he got one preseason game. The guy didn't play in the rookie camp and he's going to play in the ahl camp now ... Don't see any good for the kid there
So you were one of those athletes who acted like a petulant child when you faced adversity? ;-) I got cut when I shouldn't have in hockey..only made me work harder and made me stronger mentally...I didn't go whining to mommy.

What does not going to rookie camp have to do with anything? Leblanc needed to add weight...not lose it. I for one am glad he spent more time in the weight room than on the ice this summer. Looked stronger and faster at training camp - now he weighs 190 pounds...these are good things.

Based on last season..Leblanc did not deserve to have anything handed to him at training camp. The club wants him to be a leader and the best player in Hamilton - they also wanted to send him a message that nothing will be handed to him as a former first rounder. Louis is a character guy - this won't destroy him in any manner...management knows he will take it as a challenge and will react positively instead of negatively to it.

I interviewed a lot of LL's former coaches in his draft year - I've never heard more positive comments about a player's character and competitiveness....ever. I expect him to accept the challenge wholeheartedly and have an excellent AHL campaign while rediscovering his scoring touch.

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09-17-2013, 10:21 AM
  #239
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From what I've seen so far this camp, LL hasn't been a stand out player. There have been players who have stood out more and even though LL has been good, he hasn't won a spot on the roster by any means. Look at Gally's last year and compare that the LL this year and its not even close.

I think the Habs expected more compete from him and didn't get it, hence the early demotion. Shot across the bow to work harder.

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09-17-2013, 10:22 AM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
With all due respect - way too early to make that proclamation. You wait a minimum of five years before starting to definitively judge a prospect...it's the tried and true rule of thumb.

Injuries set him back last year..these things happen. Louis showed me as a 20-year-old that he has an NHL future...he played a smart two-way game and did not look out of place. Last year was a setback..he had his sophomore slump and battled injury..not the first prospect to do that and won't be the last.

Do folks already forget that Patch played in Hamilton at 22 after being with the big club? It was only three years ago..are our memories that poor? Leblanc is in the exact same boat.
Good point, but let's face a fact. There are players still in camp that have virtually no NHL future yet Leblanc is on a plane to Hamilton. There has to be a message here.


Last edited by Agnostic: 09-17-2013 at 10:30 AM.
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09-17-2013, 10:24 AM
  #241
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Well that's your opinion and as of now he hasn't done any of those things successfully at the NHL level. Maybe he's done them well at the junior level but I don't think he can win puck battles and be a good playmaker at the nhl level. Again I'm not talking about if he could do it in october or for a couple of games during the season, can he do it successfully in a playoffs run...don't think so.
Oh really?


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09-17-2013, 10:26 AM
  #242
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Well that's your opinion and as of now he hasn't done any of those things successfully at the NHL level. Maybe he's done them well at the junior level but I don't think he can win puck battles and be a good playmaker at the nhl level. Again I'm not talking about if he could do it in october or for a couple of games during the season, can he do it successfully in a playoffs run...don't think so.
He did it for 42 games the year before last in the NHL. He's done all of these things well during camp. I'm not sure who you're watching but Leblanc is a very gritty forward and plays a playoff brand of hockey. I get that you might have issues with his size but what he's shown he's capable of doing through each level of hockey points towards him potentially being a very important piece for our team in the future during the regular season and playoffs. This is a heart and soul, hardworking, defensively responsible player who's a pain to play against. That says playoff hockey to me.

But why did you bring up playoffs? I thought we were talking about why Leblanc was cut, where he fits into the team, and what kind of player he is...?

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09-17-2013, 10:32 AM
  #243
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The only players that would be "taking Leblanc's spot" are Thomas, Dumont, Bournival, and Holland. To me, Bournival and Dumont are trying out for a 4th line spot as all signs point to Gionta being ready for camp. They're both playing a style or have experience in that 4th line role. Thomas was JUST acquired a couple months ago and I'm sure the team wants to get to know him and see what he's capable of. I'm not entirely sure about Holland, could be that Bergevin isn't very familiar with him and wanted to get a better look, Holland hasn't been with the organization very long.

Leblanc is not being slighted or sent a message. If there's no spot, what's the point in keeping him?

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09-17-2013, 10:35 AM
  #244
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Good point, but let's face a fact. There are players still in camp that have virtually no NHL future yet Leblanc is on a plane to Hamilton. There has to be a message here.
I agree, and the message is the club expects more from him than they got last year. They have not given up on him at all - they want him to be a top 9 NHL forward for many years. No way Club de Hockey Canadien doesn't want a first round French Canadian kid to succeed...quite the opposite.

Louis is ultra competitive and full of character......I think he will accept this challenge with zeal - and that's what Duds, Bergy and co. think as well.

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09-17-2013, 10:35 AM
  #245
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He did it for 42 games the year before last in the NHL. He's done all of these things well during camp. I'm not sure who you're watching but Leblanc is a very gritty forward and plays a playoff brand of hockey. I get that you might have issues with his size but what he's shown he's capable of doing through each level of hockey points towards him potentially being a very important piece for our team in the future during the regular season and playoffs. This is a heart and soul, hardworking, defensively responsible player who's a pain to play against. That says playoff hockey to me.

But why did you bring up playoffs? I thought we were talking about why Leblanc was cut, where he fits into the team, and what kind of player he is...?
Sounds to me like the player you are describing should make it past the 1st week of training camp. People seriously have blinders on, incredible the way some habs prospects are overrated around here. Sure he's great at everything, he has heart, grit, smart but he can't make it past week 1...get real and stop being in denial. He's not as good as you make him out to be. He can't even do those things consistently at the AHL level. Don't be surprised if he gets traded.

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09-17-2013, 10:43 AM
  #246
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So you were one of those athletes who acted like a petulant child when you faced adversity? ;-) I got cut when I shouldn't have in hockey..only made me work harder and made me stronger mentally...I didn't go whining to mommy.

What does not going to rookie camp have to do with anything? Leblanc needed to add weight...not lose it. I for one am glad he spent more time in the weight room than on the ice this summer. Looked stronger and faster at training camp - now he weighs 190 pounds...these are good things.

Based on last season..Leblanc did not deserve to have anything handed to him at training camp. The club wants him to be a leader and the best player in Hamilton - they also wanted to send him a message that nothing will be handed to him as a former first rounder. Louis is a character guy - this won't destroy him in any manner...management knows he will take it as a challenge and will react positively instead of negatively to it.

I interviewed a lot of LL's former coaches in his draft year - I've never heard more positive comments about a player's character and competitiveness....ever. I expect him to accept the challenge wholeheartedly and have an excellent AHL campaign while rediscovering his scoring touch.
It's not about adversity at all it's about flat out preference to another athlete. Ive always been a big mouth kind of guy when it comes to sports, if something doesn't work I tell them. They didn't like how I practiced, yet I averaged a sack a game and about ten tackles ... Far and beyond of anyone else on my team, yet they gave the playing time to some guy who ran a 40 yard in 5.5 secs and couldn't even finish the 3 cone in time... I bet Louis feels the same and I understand him.

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09-17-2013, 10:56 AM
  #247
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Sounds to me like the player you are describing should make it past the 1st week of training camp. People seriously have blinders on, incredible the way some habs prospects are overrated around here. Sure he's great at everything, he has heart, grit, smart but he can't make it past week 1...get real and stop being in denial. He's not as good as you make him out to be. He can't even do those things consistently at the AHL level. Don't be surprised if he gets traded.
You're not reading what other people are writing, right?

There isn't a spot to gain except 4th line or bottom line D, so keep guys that could play there. (Dumont/Bournival/Tinordi/Pateryn/Blunden).

Others are new to the organisation/America so they're getting a longer look. (Tarnasky, St-Pierre, Collberg,Nygren, McCarron, Thomas).

And you still need some goalies for pratice, explaining the goalie prospects still here.

Only guy I don't really understand why he's still there is Holland. I guess they wanted him to have a first longer training camp.

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09-17-2013, 11:00 AM
  #248
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Are Leblanc and Aleksandra Wozniak an item? She seems pretty upset about him being cut from the team. Maybe she's a member of this board .

Aleksandra Wozniak ‏@alekswoz 16 h
La saison de hockey a commencé!! #GOHABSGO #TeamLebly / It's hockey season!! #GOHABSGO #TeamLebly


Aleksandra Wozniak ‏@alekswoz 28 min
Une vrai joke avec la pire excuse pour "cuter" quelqu'un!! Vraiment pas un "fair shot"! Trop de manipulations! Super nouvelle organisation!


Translation: A real joke with the worst excuse for cutting someone. Definitely not a fair shot! Too many manipulations! Great new organization!

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09-17-2013, 11:06 AM
  #249
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You're not reading what other people are writing, right?

There isn't a spot to gain except 4th line or bottom line D, so keep guys that could play there. (Dumont/Bournival/Tinordi/Pateryn/Blunden).

Others are new to the organisation/America so they're getting a longer look. (Tarnasky, St-Pierre, Collberg,Nygren, McCarron, Thomas).

And you still need some goalies for pratice, explaining the goalie prospects still here.

Only guy I don't really understand why he's still there is Holland. I guess they wanted him to have a first longer training camp.
And here I thought I was going to have to try and explain again! Thanks Treb for explaining AND understanding!

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09-17-2013, 11:06 AM
  #250
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Good point, but let's face a fact. There are players still in camp that have virtually no NHL future yet Leblanc is on a plane to Hamilton. There has to be a message here.
My guess is that the decision was made before the game.

I know it's unfair, but he showed some good stuff, he might be back soon. This or he still has issues we don't know about (with coaches, attitude problem, etc)

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