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Derek Stepan Negotiations (9/19-Dreger: "Unlikely" Stepan signs before season opens)

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09-18-2013, 04:01 AM
  #251
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There is no progress whatsoever toward resolving the negotiating impasse between the Rangers and Stepan, with a pair of sources indicating the parties’ positions have hardened
http://nypost.com/2013/09/17/no-room...t-an-enforcer/

BTW,Who is Prowe?

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Darroll Powe, who last season became only the 11th forward in the last 25 NHL seasons to fail to record a point while playing at least 40 games, seemed on the verge of Rangers extinction after clearing waivers in late June.
Big hockey fans at the Post? No one saw it to edit it.

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09-18-2013, 05:59 AM
  #252
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Why is the URL for that articled titled 'no room on rangers for just an enforcer' and then it's an article about Darroll Powe???


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09-18-2013, 06:05 AM
  #253
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Honestly I am of the mind that this whole Stepan thing is just ho-hum until Sather sees where the cards fall in camp and the roster is finalized. People will be waived and cut, then they will look at their cap situation and get him signed.

I sincerely doubt they go to opening night Stepanless. If I am wrong then we could have a RoR situation on our hands and I am not looking forward to that.

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09-18-2013, 06:08 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Why is the URL for that articled titled 'no room on rangers for just an enforcer' and then it's an article about Darroll Powe???

Haha, that's funny. I said to myself "no, there isn't" after reading the title and didn't think anything else of it after realizing the whole article was about Powe.

So not only is he "Prowe" he's also an enforcer. Or maybe this Prowe fellow is his twin who is an enforcer.

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09-18-2013, 06:31 AM
  #255
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Drew Doughty signed on September 29,2011 and the season started on October 6.

PK Subban missed 8 days and 4 games of the lockout season.

The Rangers and Mike Richter couldn't agree on a contract in September 1991 and he missed the start of the season. The Rangers had VBK so it didn't hurt them that much.

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09-18-2013, 06:42 AM
  #256
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If or whenever Stepan signs,no excuses. No excuses for not being in proper game shape. No excuses for being rusty. That's why they have training camp. Yes it's a very short camp but players use the first preseason game or 2 to get the rust off and get their timing back. At this point,his agents could be looking at Callahan and Hagelin being out for part or all of October and they are looking to squeeze the Rangers into raising their offer. They could take it into October. The Rangers season begins 2 weeks from tomorrow. Why not?

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09-18-2013, 06:45 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
If or whenever Stepan signs,no excuses. No excuses for not being in proper game shape. No excuses for being rusty. That's why they have training camp. Yes it's a very short camp but players use the first preseason game or 2 to get the rust off and get their timing back.
anybody know or has heard if hes training with ... idk his old school and trainers from ummm whats it called..... st.marys something other ??

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09-18-2013, 06:51 AM
  #258
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anybody know or has heard if hes training with ... idk his old school and trainers from ummm whats it called..... st.marys something other ??
Stepan is home in Minnesota. That's what has been reported. Nothing else has been reported. He is probably skating. Stepan went to Shattuck St. Mary's.

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09-18-2013, 07:06 AM
  #259
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He's hurting himself at this point. If he thinks he's going to be the guy that breaks Sather, he's better off soliciting an offer sheet. Too bad that the only teams that could afford to give him what he wants are the dregs of the league.

It's ok. He can watch the Olympics from his couch.

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09-18-2013, 07:28 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
If or whenever Stepan signs,no excuses. No excuses for not being in proper game shape. No excuses for being rusty. That's why they have training camp. Yes it's a very short camp but players use the first preseason game or 2 to get the rust off and get their timing back. At this point,his agents could be looking at Callahan and Hagelin being out for part or all of October and they are looking to squeeze the Rangers into raising their offer. They could take it into October. The Rangers season begins 2 weeks from tomorrow. Why not?
We have Brassard, Richards, Lindberg, Boyle, Moore. We'll manage a few games without him.

Honestly, WTF is he thinking? If the Rangers are willing to offer $3M+/year they are being generous. If Stepan demands more than $3.5M/year he is delusional.

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09-18-2013, 07:35 AM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
He's hurting himself at this point. If he thinks he's going to be the guy that breaks Sather, he's better off soliciting an offer sheet. Too bad that the only teams that could afford to give him what he wants are the dregs of the league.

It's ok. He can watch the Olympics from his couch.
I don't get comments like this. Hurting himself in what way? He's a smart guy--he's going to be in shape--it may take him a few games to catch up and get rid of some rust but when he does get here he'll be the same player--maybe even better as he's gotten better every year so far.

RB brings up Richter's hold out. Another one who held the Rangers over the fire numerous times was Mark Messier--but people just want to remember Dubinsky. Messier IMO as just a by the way--hated training camp and I suspect would deliberately hold out not just to get the last possible dime out of the team but because he'd rather been fishing off his yacht down in Hilton Head than going through drills. Nobody ever questioned his loyalty.

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09-18-2013, 07:41 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
We have Brassard, Richards, Lindberg, Boyle, Moore. We'll manage a few games without him.

Honestly, WTF is he thinking? If the Rangers are willing to offer $3M+/year they are being generous. If Stepan demands more than $3.5M/year he is delusional.
That doesn't scare ANYONE



At 3 million he's underpaid.

At 3.5 million he's underpaid.

Now, while I get that he has LIMITED leverage, he still has to think long term.

A 3.25 contract today means a QO of 3.25 in 2 years after this bridge deal expires. Should his development stall for any reason, in order for the Rangers to keep their 45-50+ point scoring center, Stepan is ensuring that he maximizes his potential earning power beyond this contract.

Just like a game of chess, moves made today are done with the eye towards the future.

If his development continues the upward trend, then the next contract will take care of itself.

At the end of the day, the Rangers are trying to limit his money today with an eye towards the future as well.

Stepan, with limited leverage and all, is well within his rights to make sure that should this be his last contract he makes as much as he can.

These guys play a game where career ending injuries happen. They may not happen every year, and they may not happen all that often, but they happen and you have to protect yourself against that when you have the opportunity to do so...such as when you are a Free Agent as Stepan is in this case.

I don't give a good rats arse what he's making. $250k is STILL A LOT OF MONEY


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09-18-2013, 07:53 AM
  #263
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and that is your opinion. which you are 100% entitled to.

Im MY opinion, holding out is fine until you get the deal you are happy with. and if the difference of $250k per year extra is the difference between being happy and un happy, thats more than fine as well.
I bet if he was asking for 7 mil you wouldn't feel this way. I think we all know there's a line of reasonability, a market, and rules. Stepan is in the red asking for almost 4 mil based on half a damn season in which he actually was really invisible for a significant portion of the beginning of it

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09-18-2013, 07:55 AM
  #264
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I don't get comments like this. Hurting himself in what way? He's a smart guy--he's going to be in shape--it may take him a few games to catch up and get rid of some rust but when he does get here he'll be the same player--maybe even better as he's gotten better every year so far.

RB brings up Richter's hold out. Another one who held the Rangers over the fire numerous times was Mark Messier--but people just want to remember Dubinsky. Messier IMO as just a by the way--hated training camp and I suspect would deliberately hold out not just to get the last possible dime out of the team but because he'd rather been fishing off his yacht down in Hilton Head than going through drills. Nobody ever questioned his loyalty.
You don't get it? There's a new coach of the NY rangers. New system. He's not playing pre-season games against NHL competition. Yes, that is HURTING himself for the season. Working out on your own is not the same as working out in an NHL training camp. He can't afford the time he's already missed.

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09-18-2013, 07:58 AM
  #265
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Stepan better have a damn good season after all this is over with.

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09-18-2013, 07:59 AM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
You don't get it? There's a new coach of the NY rangers. New system. He's not playing pre-season games against NHL competition. Yes, that is HURTING himself for the season. Working out on your own is not the same as working out in an NHL training camp. He can't afford the time he's already missed.

It's pretty obvious you don't "get" a lot.
He is hurting himself but it might not be to such a significant degree that he can't recover. Hell Staal showed up after months for the WC. Crosby missed almost a full year without skipping a beat. Stepan has no injury. I'm optimistic he'll be fine although the situation does warrant that he get here faster. But really if a player can be traded mid season and adapt to a new system why can't a player do the same to start the year?

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09-18-2013, 07:59 AM
  #267
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A 3.25 contract today means a QO of 3.25 in 2 years after this bridge deal expires.
Not likely. These contracts are usually structured such that the 2nd year pays more than the 1st year. So it would probably be more like 2.75 and 3.75, with his QO then being 3.75.

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09-18-2013, 08:07 AM
  #268
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Originally Posted by shinchanyo View Post
I bet if he was asking for 7 mil you wouldn't feel this way. I think we all know there's a line of reasonability, a market, and rules. Stepan is in the red asking for almost 4 mil based on half a damn season in which he actually was really invisible for a significant portion of the beginning of it
I wouldn't feel that way because he's NOT a 7 million per year guy.

He IS a 4 million per year guy at the very least and will be taking less because of the LIMITED leverage he does have.

He's not basing it on half a season, he's basing it on three straight seasons of progression as a player in every facet of the game. He's basing it on his importance to the team as the teams #1 center. He's basing it on the confidence that he believes that his progression and development will continue on an upward trend making the fact that he's been underpaid continue for another two years.

As for the last part, being invisible for the first quarter of the season only makes the last 3 quarters that much more impressive.

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09-18-2013, 08:10 AM
  #269
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
I don't get comments like this. Hurting himself in what way? He's a smart guy--he's going to be in shape--it may take him a few games to catch up and get rid of some rust but when he does get here he'll be the same player--maybe even better as he's gotten better every year so far.

RB brings up Richter's hold out. Another one who held the Rangers over the fire numerous times was Mark Messier--but people just want to remember Dubinsky. Messier IMO as just a by the way--hated training camp and I suspect would deliberately hold out not just to get the last possible dime out of the team but because he'd rather been fishing off his yacht down in Hilton Head than going through drills. Nobody ever questioned his loyalty.
In all fairness, Messier and Richter made us forget... they did things that forced us to remeber other things instead. Dubinsky never did.

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09-18-2013, 08:10 AM
  #270
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Not likely. These contracts are usually structured such that the 2nd year pays more than the 1st year. So it would probably be more like 2.75 and 3.75, with his QO then being 3.75.
The point remains.

The more he makes, the more he guarantees that he will make on his next contract should his development stall.

regardless of how it is structured, more now means more later.

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09-18-2013, 08:10 AM
  #271
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I wouldn't feel that way because he's NOT a 7 million per year guy.

He IS a 4 million per year guy at the very least and will be taking less because of the LIMITED leverage he does have.

He's not basing it on half a season, he's basing it on three straight seasons of progression as a player in every facet of the game. He's basing it on his importance to the team as the teams #1 center. He's basing it on the confidence that he believes that his progression and development will continue on an upward trend making the fact that he's been underpaid continue for another two years.

As for the last part, being invisible for the first quarter of the season only makes the last 3 quarters that much more impressive.
He's probably going to play at a 4+ mil level the next two years but it's just not a guarantee. He could also easily get hurt or regress. His sample size of good play was just too small to warrant 4 mil especially when our cap is thrown in but even without it I'd feel the same. 3.5 is the absolute limit I could see. If it had been an 82 game season I'd probably feel differently.

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09-18-2013, 08:11 AM
  #272
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In all fairness, Messier and Richter made us forget... they did things that forced us to remeber other things instead. Dubinsky never did.
I remember Messier screwing us over in 1997.

That's what I remember.

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09-18-2013, 08:12 AM
  #273
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He's probably going to play at a 4+ mil level the next two years but it's just not a guarantee. He could also easily get hurt or regress. His sample size of good play was just too small to warrant 4 mil especially when our cap is thrown in but even without it I'd feel the same. 3.5 is the absolute limit I could see. If it had been an 82 game season I'd probably feel differently.
Thank you for making my point.

Theres' no guarantee that he will get better or stay healthy which only intensifies the reasoning for gettign as much as you can today.

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09-18-2013, 08:21 AM
  #274
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I remember Messier screwing us over in 1997.

That's what I remember.
I remember Garden management choosing to pay perpetual loser Patrick Ewing the big money over Messier.

I also remember Checketts asking Messier "How long do you expect us to pay you for '94?" which, 20 years later, is painfully ironic considering how that year STILL gets shoved down our throats.

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09-18-2013, 08:25 AM
  #275
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I remember Messier screwing us over in 1997.

That's what I remember.
Really? That's all?

I doubt that's true.

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