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Old
09-18-2013, 02:07 PM
  #976
zzoo
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
Does anyone else feel as if our team has gotten a lot slower?
Me me me
Murray, Markov, Bouillon, Tinordi, Parros ....

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Old
09-18-2013, 02:09 PM
  #977
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Oh I agree about depth...and that's precisely what Bouillon should be, a depth player

But seems like his position on the depth chart is unchallenged. There's virtually nothing one of the kids can do to unseat Bouillon

That's where I disagree...the top 4 is pretty much set

But the following players

Bouillon, Murray, Tinordi, Pateryn, Beaulieu, Drewiskie and even Nygren should in theory be battling for the 5-6-7-8 spots

Yes, Tinordi still has a lot to learn and will be prone to mistakes. But can anyone tell me Bouillon doesn't make mistakes?

If the performance of Bouillon vs the other young players is virtually the same, I have trouble understanding how it makes more sense to play Bouillon.

Just my opinion...although I admit, i've NEVER been a Bouillon fan
If Tinordi looks like a full fleged NHL d-man the last few exhibitions(against NHLers) I think they'll find a way to have him on the team and in the lineup.

Bouillon does make mistakes, but if you watched last year's playoffs, Tinordi didn't play against top lines and still had a few plays that directly or indirectly led to some goals. Bouillon did not.

It makes more sense to play Bouillon because you can develop your kids instead of rushing them into a spot where they have to try and just survive, plus you need to have a mix of vets with the kids.

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Old
09-18-2013, 02:11 PM
  #978
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Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
Me me me
Murray, Markov, Bouillon, Tinordi, Parros ....
Bouillon and Tinordi don't make a team slower, both have good mobility. Murray and Parros will combine for about 18 minutes a game in certain situations, it's not like those guys are replacing Subban Diaz or Plekanec.

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Old
09-18-2013, 02:25 PM
  #979
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One huge change that MB and MT have brought in.. There are now no depth players that don't bring grit or physical play. Prust, White, Moen, Parros, Blunden, Murray, Bouillon, Drewiske. No more Darche, Weber, Kaberle, Campoli, whoever. There's still some dead weight in there but only on defence for another season or so until Pateryn, Tinordi, and Beaulieu move in.

Say what you will about Bouillon's game declining, he's definitely a heart and soul Hab, can fight, hit, skate the puck well- just shouldn't be playing huge minutes or on the PP. And Murray may be slow as ****, but it's good to see the team have a 6'3 tank as depth instead of extra soft puck movers.

Also really comfortable with Bournival and hopefully Leblanc adding skill and energy anywhere in the top nine as call ups. Could see them filling in well of the three lines.

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Old
09-18-2013, 02:27 PM
  #980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Bouillon and Tinordi don't make a team slower, both have good mobility. Murray and Parros will combine for about 18 minutes a game in certain situations, it's not like those guys are replacing Subban Diaz or Plekanec.
They're still replacing 2 guys that are faster then them. I understand the Parros situation as we need an enforcer but Murray after watching all of the Pens playoffs not sure he is a good fit. He kills penalties but 5 on 5 he is slow as hell and will be caught with plenty of "holding" penalties

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Old
09-18-2013, 02:30 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
They're still replacing 2 guys that are faster then them. I understand the Parros situation as we need an enforcer but Murray after watching all of the Pens playoffs not sure he is a good fit. He kills penalties but 5 on 5 he is slow as hell and will be caught with plenty of "holding" penalties
Again, we're talking minor roles.

He's lost some weight from last year, so hopefully Murray is a bit faster. 5 on 5 you just need to watch his minutes/matchups. If Hal Gill can play NHL hockey and be an effective role player Murray can too. He does everything Gill can, maybe a bit less reach, but more of a mean streak and can fight.

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Old
09-18-2013, 02:34 PM
  #982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doors View Post
One huge change that MB and MT have brought in.. There are now no depth players that don't bring grit or physical play. Prust, White, Moen, Parros, Blunden, Murray, Bouillon, Drewiske. No more Darche, Weber, Kaberle, Campoli, whoever. There's still some dead weight in there but only on defence for another season or so until Pateryn, Tinordi, and Beaulieu move in.

Say what you will about Bouillon's game declining, he's definitely a heart and soul Hab, can fight, hit, skate the puck well- just shouldn't be playing huge minutes or on the PP. And Murray may be slow as ****, but it's good to see the team have a 6'3 tank as depth instead of extra soft puck movers.

Also really comfortable with Bournival and hopefully Leblanc adding skill and energy anywhere in the top nine as call ups. Could see them filling in well of the three lines.
It's true that our depth players are now physical guys, but at the same time we are paying a premium for them as well. We are spending nearly 10m on our 4th line, bottom pairing D, and healthy scratches. That's 15% of the salary cap. We probably have the most expensive 4th line in the league.

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Old
09-18-2013, 02:39 PM
  #983
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
It's true that our depth players are now physical guys, but at the same time we are paying a premium for them as well. We are spending nearly 10m on our 4th line, bottom pairing D, and healthy scratches. That's 15% of the salary cap. We probably have the most expensive 4th line in the league.
The 4th line is not like a typical NHL 4th line. A guy like Prust will play more minutes, often jumping up on other lines, plus he and Moen get a lot of PK minutes and late game protecting a lead type minutes also.

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Old
09-18-2013, 03:07 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
It's true that our depth players are now physical guys, but at the same time we are paying a premium for them as well. We are spending nearly 10m on our 4th line, bottom pairing D, and healthy scratches. That's 15% of the salary cap. We probably have the most expensive 4th line in the league.
That's true. Prust is worth it for the toughness and versatility. Moen earned his deal but its outlasting him. Hopefully MB can get out of his and DD contract before they expire. Murray and Bouillon are gone next year.

The teams drafted well though. So Hopefully overpaying for size and skill will soon be replaced by drafted players that have a combo of both. Next year a top six of Pacioretty, Plekanec, Gallagher, Eller, Galchenyuk and Bourque sounds good to me. Nobody there is a one dimensional player. And with a future defence of Subban, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Emelin, Gorges and whoever else.. in a year or two the roster should be balanced enough that they can pull a Chicago and fill in the bottom of the lineup every year with one or two bargain vets and talented prospects on cheap deals.

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Old
09-18-2013, 05:17 PM
  #985
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Tinordi had a fight today and played mean.

The way he handle himself so far, MB will have to make room for him in the top6.

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Old
09-18-2013, 05:25 PM
  #986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
Me me me
Murray, Markov, Bouillon, Tinordi, Parros ....
Well I think the team has gotten continually slower over the last 6 years
or so. But I don't think anyone you mentioned is involved in that process.
OK, maybe Markov. But Markov's passes still drive team speed. In fact, that
may be the biggest reason we still have average team speed.

I'm going to get killed for this. But here it is. The people that make this
version of the habs slow ( and |I didn't mean only slower, but slow.), are
Galchenyuk, Galegher, and DD. Also an older Gionta.

Having players who play limited minutes, and then to supply muscle,
not be fast, doesn't much effect a teams speed. Having players like
Tinordi, skate as well as he does, makes a team faster.

Having players like DD and Galagher be adaquate skaters, really makes
you a slower team. When opponents have players like that in their top six,
they are usually "speed-burners". One might not make a lot of difference.
But you would still be a slower team.

Galchenyuk, adaquate skater, but mostly because of the other things he
brings.
Gallagher, adaquate skater, but only because of the other things he brings.
DD, is certainly less that an average skater in his role. Most very small players
who play his minutes, in his role, are much faster.
If you add this to an ageing Gionta, this is a slow group of forwards. Only
Plenc and Eller are very good skaters. No one is a great skater.
MaxPac is a plus for his size, but really, among 1st line forwards he's
not going to be much over average.

Anyhow, it is the top end of the roster that decides if you have a fast team.
I lived in Edmonton when Gretzky, Messier, Anderson, Kurri, Coffey, and such
were young. I won't bore you with all the slow players that played a lot less
minutes. Trust me for this, they didn't make the Oilers a slow team.

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Old
09-18-2013, 05:27 PM
  #987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
Tinordi had a fight today and played mean.

The way he handle himself so far, MB will have to make room for him in the top6.
w8 wut? No game today.

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Old
09-18-2013, 05:28 PM
  #988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
Tinordi had a fight today and played mean.

The way he handle himself so far, MB will have to make room for him in the top6.
Da ****? He fought where? Practice?

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Old
09-18-2013, 05:31 PM
  #989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habaddict View Post
Well I think the team has gotten continually slower over the last 6 years
or so. But I don't think anyone you mentioned is involved in that process.
OK, maybe Markov. But Markov's passes still drive team speed. In fact, that
may be the biggest reason we still have average team speed.

I'm going to get killed for this. But here it is. The people that make this
version of the habs slow ( and |I didn't mean only slower, but slow.), are
Galchenyuk, Galegher, and DD. Also an older Gionta.

Having players who play limited minutes, and then to supply muscle,
not be fast, doesn't much effect a teams speed. Having players like
Tinordi, skate as well as he does, makes a team faster.

Having players like DD and Galagher be adaquate skaters, really makes
you a slower team. When opponents have players like that in their top six,
they are usually "speed-burners". One might not make a lot of difference.
But you would still be a slower team.

Galchenyuk, adaquate skater, but mostly because of the other things he
brings.
Gallagher, adaquate skater, but only because of the other things he brings.
DD, is certainly less that an average skater in his role. Most very small players
who play his minutes, in his role, are much faster.
If you add this to an ageing Gionta, this is a slow group of forwards. Only
Plenc and Eller are very good skaters. No one is a great skater.
MaxPac is a plus for his size, but really, among 1st line forwards he's
not going to be much over average.

Anyhow, it is the top end of the roster that decides if you have a fast team.
I lived in Edmonton when Gretzky, Messier, Anderson, Kurri, Coffey, and such
were young. I won't bore you with all the slow players that played a lot less
minutes. Trust me for this, they didn't make the Oilers a slow team.
This guy with all his guts and his controversial opinions. It's kind of what I was feeling as well and why I worry about potentially losing guys like Markov and Diaz (puck-movers who can speed up a team's attack) to Free Agency while we add slow players like Murray and Bouillon with little puck-moving ability. He wouldn't have fit with our hope for more size but, I was pushing for us to sign Mason Raymond this summer. He would have given us another option on the attack other than just skill. Thomas might fit well with this group, he's a very fast skater.

Skill, speed, size.

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Old
09-18-2013, 05:31 PM
  #990
Lars Mon Amour
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
Tinordi had a fight today and played mean.

The way he handle himself so far, MB will have to make room for him in the top6.
What. the. flying. ****.
Explain.

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Old
09-18-2013, 05:47 PM
  #991
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Da ****? He fought where? Practice?

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Old
09-18-2013, 05:48 PM
  #992
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mover View Post
What. the. flying. ****.
Explain.
they said this on 98,5. Think it was a fight with Prust.

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Old
09-18-2013, 05:49 PM
  #993
Lars Mon Amour
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Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
they said this on 98,5. Think it was a fight with Prust.
What the hell, okay man. Need to see a video of this asap!

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Old
09-18-2013, 05:53 PM
  #994
Smoky Thompson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
they said this on 98,5. Think it was a fight with Prust.
... Seriously?

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Old
09-18-2013, 05:56 PM
  #995
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It's everywhere on twitter. Came here expecting some footage.

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Old
09-18-2013, 05:57 PM
  #996
Lars Mon Amour
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Tinordi wanted to show he can fight or they were really mad against each other?

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Old
09-18-2013, 05:59 PM
  #997
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A big part of team speed is having very good puck moving d-men. You can be as fast as you want but if break outs are slow and painful then your speed is pretty useless.

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Old
09-18-2013, 06:13 PM
  #998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
Me me me
Murray, Markov, Bouillon, Tinordi, Parros ....
You guys want some speed? bench Moen and play Bournival intead....

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Old
09-18-2013, 06:17 PM
  #999
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
A big part of team speed is having very good puck moving d-men. You can be as fast as you want but if break outs are slow and painful then your speed is pretty useless.
Agreed. That's what I meant. Markov makes our team faster. But
man it hurts to watch him skate.
Still my favorite player since I (ok we ) lost Koivu.

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Old
09-18-2013, 06:23 PM
  #1000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draft View Post
Does anyone else feel as if our team has gotten a lot slower?
sure looked like it during the boston game...we're really slow in the neutral zone.

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