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Murray & Parros practicing with the team (no contact) Oct. 25

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09-19-2013, 11:53 AM
  #76
HiggsBozon
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
It's unfortunate you feel that way because you're wrong. Diaz's defensive game is a lot better than what you portray it as.
Wait a minute...

Let's take a look at the other young, promising d-men coming in the league full-time, and who they were being paired with.

Doughty got time with Scuderi.
Karlsson started with Phillips.
Subban started with Gill.
Cowen was mainly paired with Phillips last season.

LET'S ****ING PAIR TINORDI WITH RAFAEL DIAZ!

Excellent idea. What could possibly go wrong? Diaz is such a good mentor after all.

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09-19-2013, 11:55 AM
  #77
Andy
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Wait a minute...

Let's take a look at the other young, promising d-men coming in the league full-time, and who they were being paired with.

Doughty got time with Scuderi.
Karlsson started with Phillips.
Subban started with Gill.
Cowen was mainly paired with Phillips last season.

LET'S ****ING PAIR TINORDI WITH RAFAEL DIAZ!

Excellent idea. What could possibly go wrong? Diaz is such a good mentor after all.
lol What kind of an argument is that? Really? Try again, you can do better.

Also, relax. And you're wrong. Diaz is much better than you portray him to be. Stop being biased.

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09-19-2013, 11:55 AM
  #78
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some chick just told me Louis Leblanc can play D

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09-19-2013, 11:55 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Of course, your preference is Tinordi > Pateryn > Murray. You were singing the apocalypse after a preseason loss with less than 10 regulars dressed.
Yes I had the wacky idea that NHL experience would benefit a 21 year defenceman old more than it would benefit a 38 year old defenceman. Also that the Habs are a small team and could use a behemoth, another weird theory I been a-singin'

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09-19-2013, 11:56 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
It's unfortunate you feel that way because you're wrong. Diaz's defensive game is a lot better than what you portray it as. Considering the amount of ice-time he received pre-injury, the head coach tends to agree.
Not to mention that Gorges-Diaz was the 3rd most used pairing last year and had the second highest ES +/- of any combination of Habs defensemen as a 2nd pairing. So obviously Tinordi-Diaz as a 3rd pairing would be too much for Diaz to handle, as Gorges was universally considered a defensive god last year, right? ...

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09-19-2013, 11:59 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
What kind of an argument is that? Really? Try again, you can do better.
Of course, I wouldn't expect people who mostly base their evaluations on stats to value the importance of being put in winning conditions with an experienced guy to start off in this league.

Let's pair Tinordi with Diaz. That's definitely the right way to show him his role in the big league.

Watch Subban go on the penalty kill now, and tell me Gill didn't have any influence on how he plays the game. Ask him if Gill, who while not being my favorite out there, still was one hell of a good mentor, had any influence on his attitude off the ice as well.

Putting Tinordi with Diaz is asking for trouble.

And at 21 years of age? With his style? Yeah. YOU can do better.

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09-19-2013, 11:59 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by xposbrad View Post
Murray is a tough strong guy, but his skating is soooo bad. His footwork is really weak. We need a Murray but who could skate somewhat. He's going to get beat a bunch of times. The only thing I like about him is he can clear the crease and let price see the puck. It's way too late to train and teach him how to skate though lol
So what?

The NHL is about production and results, you don't get points for artistic expression.

Guys like Gill, Chara, Carkner, Regehr, Scuderi etc have been effective NHL players for years without great mobility.

Nurray will be used in a role and in certain situations, much like Glachenyuk and Gallagher last year(different ones, same concept). He should do really well in that role, as long as you don't ask him to shut down a top line. He will also add a whole lot of mean streak on defense with Emelin out.

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09-19-2013, 12:00 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Not to mention that Gorges-Diaz was the 3rd most used pairing last year and had the second highest ES +/- of any combination of Habs defensemen as a 2nd pairing. So obviously Tinordi-Diaz as a 3rd pairing would be too much for Diaz to handle, as Gorges was universally considered a defensive god last year, right? ...
After re-watching a bunch of games (including every single one of the playoffs on NHL network this summer), I actually have much more sympathy towards Gorges than I had last year after the season. He had to play with one pathetic excuse of a DEFENSEman.

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09-19-2013, 12:01 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Not to mention that Gorges-Diaz was the 3rd most used pairing last year and had the second highest ES +/- of any combination of Habs defensemen as a 2nd pairing. So obviously Tinordi-Diaz as a 3rd pairing would be too much for Diaz to handle, as Gorges was universally considered a defensive god last year, right? ...
But we're not allowed to use stats. Only Higgsbozon can use them.

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09-19-2013, 12:01 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Wait a minute...

Let's take a look at the other young, promising d-men coming in the league full-time, and who they were being paired with.

Doughty got time with Scuderi.
Karlsson started with Phillips.
Subban started with Gill.
Cowen was mainly paired with Phillips last season.

LET'S ****ING PAIR TINORDI WITH RAFAEL DIAZ!

Excellent idea. What could possibly go wrong? Diaz is such a good mentor after all.
Except that Tinordi-Diaz would be used as a 3rd pair defenseman.

And your argument is pretty irrelevant. You're saying that if Tinordi plays for Montreal, it has to be with Subban.. or maybe Markov if Tinordi can play on the right side? I won't say Gorges since you dislike him too and probably think he's not good enough to mentor Tinordi.


And please, Diaz is not as bad defensively as you seem to think.

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Old
09-19-2013, 12:02 PM
  #86
Andy
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
After re-watching a bunch of games (including every single one of the playoffs on NHL network this summer), I actually have much more sympathy towards Gorges than I had last year after the season. He had to play with one pathetic excuse of a DEFENSEman.
That's a pathetic excuse of an argument. No offense. I'm really starting to doubt your eyes.

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09-19-2013, 12:02 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Wait a minute...

Let's take a look at the other young, promising d-men coming in the league full-time, and who they were being paired with.

Doughty got time with Scuderi.
Karlsson started with Phillips.
Subban started with Gill.
Cowen was mainly paired with Phillips last season.

LET'S ****ING PAIR TINORDI WITH RAFAEL DIAZ!

Excellent idea. What could possibly go wrong? Diaz is such a good mentor after all.
Haha yeah Diaz can teach Tinordi so much !

Truth is I wouldn't want Tinordi with Gorges either, to learn how to be thoroughly unexceptional. But even that would be better than Diaz.

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09-19-2013, 12:04 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
After re-watching a bunch of games (including every single one of the playoffs on NHL network this summer), I actually have much more sympathy towards Gorges than I had last year after the season. He had to play with one pathetic excuse of a DEFENSEman.
Yeah, you're right. He and Subban finished in the negative for ES +/- as the 2nd most used pairing.

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09-19-2013, 12:04 PM
  #89
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
But we're not allowed to use stats. Only Higgsbozon can use them.
Haven't seen this demonstrated, so not willing to accept it as fact.

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09-19-2013, 12:04 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
lol What kind of an argument is that? Really? Try again, you can do better.

Also, relax. And you're wrong. Diaz is much better than you portray him to be. Stop being biased.
You're the one who call other people's opinions "retarded", and who skips words when put in a debate with someone who doesn't agree with you. So skip the "relax" advices, please.

You keep singing the praise of Tinordi, which is cool, as he's a great defenseman... FOR HIS AGE. He's still 21 and still has plenty to learn. Of course, that's something statistical evaluations don't take into consideration. All players are robot, toughness/intimidation factors don't exist, and the age of a player has no importance on his developement.

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09-19-2013, 12:06 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Oh... another micro-stats lover... Great.
Keep studying those, I'll keep looking at the on-ice play.

People here sometimes, lol.

1. Douglas Murray is not an NHL d-man, according to micro-stats
2. Microstats are good, several teams, like the Sharks, use them a lot in their evaluation.
3. Sharks kept using Murray in a decent role despite those "stats".
4. Following this logic, I can say that Murray is a bad d-man.

Something is flawed there
Keep suggesting what you want. Defensive d-men spend more time in their zone. That's why those ridiculous stats claim Scuderi is a bad d-man also.
I watched Iginla blow by Murray like he was standing still. Murray might have been good in the past but recent performance proves that he is no longer.

You want some logic? Here it is:

Murray can't skate.
Murray can't win puck battles he can't get to.
Murray can't get to the puck so he can't get it out of his zone.
Habs get outshot/outplayed dramatically while Murray's on the ice.
Habs lose with Murray.

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09-19-2013, 12:06 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Yes, this is exactly what this user suggested! That Murray will make us win games by himself!
I guess you missed the smiley.

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Old
09-19-2013, 12:06 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Yeah, you're right. He and Subban finished in the negative for ES +/- as the 2nd most used pairing.
Of course, keep seeing what you see in stats.
Rafael Diaz... Seriously guys... have we got low enough to actually praise that?

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09-19-2013, 12:06 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Crimson Skorpion View Post
No. Likely due to the fact that it's not really funny...
That was such an easy response. I had written that response myself but was wondering who would have the "luxury" of responding that way....you won.

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09-19-2013, 12:08 PM
  #95
Andy
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
You're the one who call other people's opinions "retarded", and who skips words when put in a debate with someone who doesn't agree with you. So skip the "relax" advices, please.

You keep singing the praise of Tinordi, which is cool, as he's a great defenseman... FOR HIS AGE. He's still 21 and still has plenty to learn. Of course, that's something statistical evaluations don't take into consideration. All players are robot, toughness/intimidation factors don't exist, and the age of a player has no importance on his developement.
When did I use the word retarded? WTH are you talking about.

Robots? toughness? Seriously what are you talking about.

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09-19-2013, 12:09 PM
  #96
HiggsBozon
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That's a pathetic excuse of an argument. No offense. I'm really starting to doubt your eyes.
Again with the violent words and personal insults... You really are doing some reflection when you're telling other people to relax, eh? You should take your own advice.

Keep qualifying other arguments as pathetic, retarded, name it... For one, I'll let you live in your own world where only your opinion is not retarded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
When did I use the word retarded? WTH are you talking about.

Robots? toughness? Seriously what are you talking about.
You perfectly get the picture. Or you're too much blinded by your obnoxiousness to see it.
The way you clamor in favor of starting Tinordi in the NHL without taking the experience of his potential linemate, his age, and the developement of his physical game into account leads me to believe that yes, you consider players to be robots without feelings, emotions, emotional developement and without maturity whatsoever. A 21 years old, stay-at-home defenseman starting in the NHL with a guy who has one year and a half of NHL experience would be a gross mistake. I'm calling it like I see it.

Of course, it's "pathetic", "wrong" and... whatever you name it.

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Old
09-19-2013, 12:12 PM
  #97
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Of course, keep seeing what you see in stats.
Rafael Diaz... Seriously guys... have we got low enough to actually praise that?
You claim to have re-watched the games. How is your evaluation so far off of that of the NHL coach which increased his responsibilities from 14-18 minutes per game to 20-24 per game? There were options available to Therrien when the injuries hit, he gave them to Diaz, and the stats bear out that he was much more proficient/efficient than you were able to notice.

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09-19-2013, 12:14 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by impudent_lowlife View Post
I watched Iginla blow by Murray like he was standing still. Murray might have been good in the past but recent performance proves that he is no longer.

You want some logic? Here it is:

Murray can't skate.
Murray can't win puck battles he can't get to.
Murray can't get to the puck so he can't get it out of his zone.
Habs get outshot/outplayed dramatically while Murray's on the ice.
Habs lose with Murray.
Murray won't be on the ice when the other team has speedy guys on. He probably won't be used on the PP also. But if the other team sends out grinders, Murray could be used. Let's face it, all the faults Murray has, Diaz is lacking as well in many areas.

Can Diaz clear the crease? No
Can Diaz move guys along the boards and get the puck out?? Not really so well
Can Diaz check? Not well
Can Diaz stop a guy driving to the net? No

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Old
09-19-2013, 12:14 PM
  #99
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Again with the violent words and personal insults...
Oh yes, you're the victim of an internet hate crime. Find yourself a 1-800 number if you need consoling.

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09-19-2013, 12:14 PM
  #100
HiggsBozon
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
You claim to have re-watched the games. How is your evaluation so far off of that of the NHL coach which increased his responsibilities from 14-18 minutes per game to 20-24 per game? There were options available to Therrien when the injuries hit, he gave them to Diaz, and the stats bear out that he was much more proficient/efficient than you were able to notice.
Mind you, it goes both ways. How is your evaluations of Doug Murray so different than two experienced NHL coaches, who kept using him in a regular role, despite him being "not good enough to play in the NHL"?

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