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Crosby proclaims Price the best goalie in the league.

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09-19-2013, 01:15 PM
  #226
Habz2006
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You can ask anyone outside of the Montreal Canadiens fanbase about Carey Price and most of them will tell you he is overrated. I truly hope he can finally establish himself as a FRANCHISE goalie.

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09-19-2013, 01:28 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Rangers fan for 50 years and to me McDonagh is already in their top 5 D over that period. Park, Leetch, Beck, Zubov.

Nobody beats McDonagh one on one and at even strength he was top 5 in points for D last year.
Looking at that list, I believe you. Wowsah.

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09-19-2013, 01:42 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Habz2006 View Post
Well then what you are essentially saying is that the Canadiens should build a great 2 way defensive oriented team like columbus did .... AND if they do that, they can afford to pretty much throw any goalie in nets and they will win the vezina ??? How about this .. why don't we do that ... trade Price and but Mayer in nets and maybe we will groom a Vezina winner ?? haha what a joke
Yes they should build a great 2-way team like CBJ. And no, they can't afford that. Bob is not any goaltender, he's a top tier goalie. What was he doing in philly ? Nothing ! Why ? ... Goes back to the system and the team. Bryz ? Same story. Mike Smith ? Same thing.

There's 15 ish goaltenders in the league that can pretty much be labeled as best at one point... That depends on the team. It happens that Rask/Thomas, Hank, Rinne (Until last year) all had the best of the teams in that regards, not too complicated.

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Originally Posted by Habz2006 View Post
You can ask anyone outside of the Montreal Canadiens fanbase about Carey Price and most of them will tell you he is overrated. I truly hope he can finally establish himself as a FRANCHISE goalie.
Everyone is overrated for them... it's not unbiased, its the good ol' my player is better than yours. From people who think Toews is the 4th best player in the world... I'll take my opinion. They are heavily media-hyped.

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Looking at that list, I believe you. Wowsah.
TBH, over the last 20 or so years, we can do pretty much the same thing with P.K. and Markov. Aside from them... There's nothign really special

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09-19-2013, 02:08 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Habz2006 View Post
2007-2008 !!!!! Last playoff series win (and his only 1). !!!!!
Needs more exclamation marks

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09-19-2013, 02:15 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Habz2006 View Post
2007-2008 !!!!! Last playoff series win (and his only 1). !!!!!
And the 3 since then?

2008-09 was a complete and total gongshow. Anyone who actually even remotely blames Price for that series is out to lunch.

2010-11, Price had an excellent series and pushed the eventual Stanley Cup champs to 7 games. We lost 3 games in OT that year, and there were plenty of chances to score in all of the OT games. Thomas was having a season for the ages, in years to come I think people will really realize that 2010-11 Tim Thomas was something special and an anomalous season. Hard to grill Price for having a great series but not playing at a generational level.

Last season, I think we can all agree that he was underwhelming and could have been better. Doesn't really mean we can pin the loss on him though.

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09-19-2013, 02:21 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Habz2006 View Post
You can ask anyone outside of the Montreal Canadiens fanbase about Carey Price and most of them will tell you he is overrated. I truly hope he can finally establish himself as a FRANCHISE goalie.
Crosby is outside our fanbase you literrally are making a statement without being able to back it, if anything I feel like we give him a harder time than other fanbases

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09-19-2013, 02:21 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Noob616 View Post
And the 3 since then?

2008-09 was a complete and total gongshow. Anyone who actually even remotely blames Price for that series is out to lunch.

2010-11, Price had an excellent series and pushed the eventual Stanley Cup champs to 7 games. We lost 3 games in OT that year, and there were plenty of chances to score in all of the OT games. Thomas was having a season for the ages, in years to come I think people will really realize that 2010-11 Tim Thomas was something special and an anomalous season. Hard to grill Price for having a great series but not playing at a generational level.

Last season, I think we can all agree that he was underwhelming and could have been better. Doesn't really mean we can pin the loss on him though.
Your reasonable response will not slow the hysteria from the haters.

Price isn't the best goalie in the league but he is a top 5 goalie. He does have brain cramps every once in a while but then so does everyone on the ice. Just that when a goalie does it you end up down a goal.

For those advocating trading him, give your head a shake. So you fill a hole on offence or defence but create a massive hole in net. Great thinking!

All this bs and still haven't played game 1 this season.

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09-19-2013, 02:39 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Noob616 View Post
And the 3 since then?

2008-09 was a complete and total gongshow. Anyone who actually even remotely blames Price for that series is out to lunch.

2010-11, Price had an excellent series and pushed the eventual Stanley Cup champs to 7 games. We lost 3 games in OT that year, and there were plenty of chances to score in all of the OT games. Thomas was having a season for the ages, in years to come I think people will really realize that 2010-11 Tim Thomas was something special and an anomalous season. Hard to grill Price for having a great series but not playing at a generational level.

Last season, I think we can all agree that he was underwhelming and could have been better. Doesn't really mean we can pin the loss on him though.
Why is it always the team or the defense not playing well that explains his mediocre numbers/performance so far in his NHL career ? I think that argument isn't always valid and even IF it is .... have you ever heard of a goalie standing on his head and winning a game for his team when everything else is going wrong ? You know ... what Halak did for the habs ... remember that ? How about Anderson's performance last year against the habs ?? We need that from Price and we never get it ... especially in the games that mean the most (playoffs)

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09-19-2013, 02:41 PM
  #234
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Who's opinion do you value most?

A guy obsessed with the game, watches every game, league champion, Olympic Gold winner, does not take a moment off, scoring champ and is the best player alive.

Myopic local media (who only watch the Habs) and their viewers/readers, who simply repeat what they hear/read and convince themselves they formed their own opinion.

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09-19-2013, 02:44 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Drive425 View Post
Your reasonable response will not slow the hysteria from the haters.

Price isn't the best goalie in the league but he is a top 5 goalie. He does have brain cramps every once in a while but then so does everyone on the ice. Just that when a goalie does it you end up down a goal.

For those advocating trading him, give your head a shake. So you fill a hole on offence or defence but create a massive hole in net. Great thinking!

All this bs and still haven't played game 1 this season.
Well and the fact that people honestly believe that Price is actually a liability in net is just completely bonkers.

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Originally Posted by Habz2006 View Post
Why is it always the team or the defense not playing well that explains his mediocre numbers/performance so far in his NHL career ? I think that argument isn't always valid and even IF it is .... have you ever heard of a goalie standing on his head and winning a game for his team when everything else is going wrong ? You know ... what Halak did for the habs ... remember that ? How about Anderson's performance last year against the habs ?? We need that from Price and we never get it ... especially in the games that mean the most (playoffs)
Like I said, if you actually think that 2008-09 had anything to do with Price you're completely out to lunch and are just blindly looking at his playoff W/L record with no thought. We could have had a prime Dominik Hasek in net that series and still got swept. In 2010-11 we played against the team that ended up winning the cup and were one OT goal away from winning. We had the best team in the league on the ropes and we couldn't get it done, and the other team's goalie was playing at an absurdly high level that can't be reasonably expected from anyone (he set the SV% record that year). Sure you could argue Price could have "won the series" for us (whatever that means), but the other side of that is that the team had 3 chances in OT to close it out and couldn't get it done. Why aren't we grilling Gionta for firing an open shot into Thomas' gut?

Last playoff, yeah it was pretty clearly not Price's best performance. And for all the hype about Anderson he didn't have a spectacular series against Pittsburgh now did he? I'm admitting and agreeing with you that he wasn't good enough last year. But that doesn't mean I'm going to blindly go back and say OMG HE'S LOST 3 SERIES IN A ROW and ignore the context to fit a stupid narrative.

Guess the haters won't be happy until we trade Price and call up Fucale.


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09-19-2013, 02:46 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
The team wasn't fine once Emelin went down. The D is thin even with him in the lineup. He's the only real fear factor we have back there and without him we haven't got a whole lot back there. And it's not like Emelin is all that great to begin with. But at least players had some respect in our end of the rink when he was on the ice.

Moreover, our PK sucked and I don't see that changing now.
Your post once again is not supported by reality. The habs were more than fine when Emelin went down. Price hit an all time low during that stretch, **** happens, but it's what happened. If you think Emelin has that much value you're out of control.

Aside from that, none of the numbers support you, zero, and the eye test shows this even more clearly, Price stunk for close to a month, and even in the beginning they were winning games despite Price. He didn't steal many games, but he certainly cost his share. You can say the same old things over and over, it won't make them any more true.

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09-19-2013, 02:49 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
If you think Colombus were bad in their own end you are clearly missing something. They were one of the strongest defensive team in the league, the problem is that they cannot score.

And have Reimer and Holtby been better than Price ?
Last year, Reimer was easily better than Price.

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09-19-2013, 02:57 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
I really don't see the GAA/save % relation to goal scored by your own team. I might have missed something here.
You asked when was Reimer better, he showed you. If this doesn't convince you, nothing will. What would it take to prove to you Reimer was better?

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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Price put up a .923% in a 7 game series against the Boston Bruins team that won the cup.
Care to cherry pick more stats?
Who's cherry-picking?

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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Shots allowed does not indicate quality of shots.

My god, people really need to be taught statistics in high school so this false belief in them can go to hell.

100% of people who drink water and breathe air die.
STOP BREATHING and DRINKING WATER now!!!

If the team you are playing gives you free reign to pass the puck through the slot and take shots/redirections from there.. are you going to go over the blueline, rip a shot from the perimeter and hope to regain possession from a rebound? Or will you take the puck in, set up, and score on a prime chance because the defensive system is horrible?

Martins defensive system was way better at limiting scoring chances than Therrien's, yet the shots against in Martin's system was way higher than Therrien's regime. You have to take a nugget of information, especially statistical information, then analyze it and use logic to determine why these discrepancies exist.

Teams will gladly take one shot in a prime scoring chance vs. 3-4 shots from the perimeter on every offensive zone possession.
It's you who needs a course on statistics. Debate the points without personal attacks. Do you disagree with the notion that teams who give up the most shots also give up the most chances? This is basically not even debatable.

Over the course of an entire season, a team who consistently out-shoots his opponents will have undoubtedly out-chanced his opponents. Your shot-quality argument is an attempt at misdirection. It isn't true.

The rest of your post is just a bunch of miss-informed nonsense with no basis in reality.

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09-19-2013, 03:02 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
Who's opinion do you value most?

A guy obsessed with the game, watches every game, league champion, Olympic Gold winner, does not take a moment off, scoring champ and is the best player alive.

Myopic local media (who only watch the Habs) and their viewers/readers, who simply repeat what they hear/read and convince themselves they formed their own opinion.
The media overwhelmingly over hypes Price, not the other way around. You showed your bias with your very first sentence, you're trying to appeal to authority here. It doesn't work and how the hell would you know how many games Crosby watches?

You sure you didn't try to frame this post in a manner that supports your own opinion

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09-19-2013, 03:09 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Habz2006 View Post
Why is it always the team or the defense not playing well that explains his mediocre numbers/performance so far in his NHL career ? I think that argument isn't always valid and even IF it is .... have you ever heard of a goalie standing on his head and winning a game for his team when everything else is going wrong ? You know ... what Halak did for the habs ... remember that ? How about Anderson's performance last year against the habs ?? We need that from Price and we never get it ... especially in the games that mean the most (playoffs)
Why is it not ? Anderson had a great year, under a great system, a team that underachieved and he played against a team that couldn't get a shot off, that wasn't landing right in his crest or that was from the blue line. Halak was a mix of that, clutch offense(Cause yeah, we outscored the pens AND the Caps, which brings me straight to the yeah, no... Halak did not carry anyone.)

That final runs was an anomaly, but a sweet one. Rarely do you see a team that has everything going for them like we had that year, a goalie gets hot, their main scorer gets hot, clutch scoring from out bottom 6(Moen/Moore were amazing), every body believes in the system... Halak had a whole lot of stinkers in that run, does it mean he wasn't good ? Nope. He did good and he was key in the wins, since he stopped the pucks. Same thing happened with the cup winning Bruins, the hawks during the two years and the Kings. We just happened to come up short because we faced a steam roller in Philly and we had no more energy.

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Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
Who's opinion do you value most?

A guy obsessed with the game, watches every game, league champion, Olympic Gold winner, does not take a moment off, scoring champ and is the best player alive.

Myopic local media (who only watch the Habs) and their viewers/readers, who simply repeat what they hear/read and convince themselves they formed their own opinion.
To be honest, its not about valuing opinion, it's about (like you mentioned) making one for yourself. Every team in the league has that media hype to them, some players get positive exposure(Best example I can think of is Toews...) and some don't get it(Bergeron until really recently or players like Backstrom, Plekanec, Kopitar before their cup run...) Its mainly of what the opinion of people are made up. Even the actual media opinion is made up of ... crap ? I love hearing people on RDS who don't know squat abotu XYZ prospect yet they give him bad/good rep... This happens every draft/trade... I think they actually read the internet and build an opinion from that.
TL;DR Every fan base is like that, go read the main board and you will see a crap load of unconstructive opinion and misconceptions..
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Last year, Reimer was easily better than Price.
Since your argument is so deep, I'll counter with : No he wasn't.

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09-19-2013, 03:11 PM
  #241
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Why is it not ? Anderson had a great year, under a great system, a team that underachieved and he played against a team that couldn't get a shot off, that wasn't landing right in his crest or that was from the blue line. Halak was a mix of that, clutch offense(Cause yeah, we outscored the pens AND the Caps, which brings me straight to the yeah, no... Halak did not carry anyone.)

That final runs was an anomaly, but a sweet one. Rarely do you see a team that has everything going for them like we had that year, a goalie gets hot, their main scorer gets hot, clutch scoring from out bottom 6(Moen/Moore were amazing), every body believes in the system... Halak had a whole lot of stinkers in that run, does it mean he wasn't good ? Nope. He did good and he was key in the wins, since he stopped the pucks. Same thing happened with the cup winning Bruins, the hawks during the two years and the Kings. We just happened to come up short because we faced a steam roller in Philly and we had no more energy.



To be honest, its not about valuing opinion, it's about (like you mentioned) making one for yourself. Every team in the league has that media hype to them, some players get positive exposure(Best example I can think of is Toews...) and some don't get it(Bergeron until really recently or players like Backstrom, Plekanec, Kopitar before their cup run...) Its mainly of what the opinion of people are made up. Even the actual media opinion is made up of ... crap ? I love hearing people on RDS who don't know squat abotu XYZ prospect yet they give him bad/good rep... This happens every draft/trade... I think they actually read the internet and build an opinion from that.
TL;DR Every fan base is like that, go read the main board and you will see a crap load of unconstructive opinion and misconceptions..


Since your argument is so deep, I'll counter with : No he wasn't.
He was in every possible measurable metric and it wasn't particularly close.

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09-19-2013, 03:12 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
You asked when was Reimer better, he showed you. If this doesn't convince you, nothing will. What would it take to prove to you Reimer was better?



Who's cherry-picking?



It's you who needs a course on statistics. Debate the points without personal attacks. Do you disagree with the notion that teams who give up the most shots also give up the most chances? This is basically not even debatable.

Over the course of an entire season, a team who consistently out-shoots his opponents will have undoubtedly out-chanced his opponents. Your shot-quality argument is an attempt at misdirection. It isn't true.

The rest of your post is just a bunch of miss-informed nonsense with no basis in reality.
So, you're actually saying that s hot from the blue line is the same as a shot from the slot, right ? That a shot by Stamkos is the same as a shot by Moen ?

There's always a probability that the puck goes in the net on any shots, some are higher than the other. This is pretty simple to understand.

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09-19-2013, 03:12 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
You asked when was Reimer better, he showed you. If this doesn't convince you, nothing will. What would it take to prove to you Reimer was better?



Who's cherry-picking?
Apparently you missed the giant


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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
It's you who needs a course on statistics. Debate the points without personal attacks. Do you disagree with the notion that teams who give up the most shots also give up the most chances? This is basically not even debatable.

Over the course of an entire season, a team who consistently out-shoots his opponents will have undoubtedly out-chanced his opponents. Your shot-quality argument is an attempt at misdirection. It isn't true.

The rest of your post is just a bunch of miss-informed nonsense with no basis in reality.
Actually he makes a great point, you just chose to ignore it. Under JM the Habs gave up a hell of a lot more shots, but I wouldn't be ready to say that they gave up more scoring chances. You can slap a puck in the goalie's chest from 30 feet out 100 times in a game, none of those shots will be considered scoring chances though.

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09-19-2013, 03:15 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Strik_IX View Post
Apparently you missed the giant




Actually he makes a great point, you just chose to ignore it. Under JM the Habs gave up a hell of a lot more shots, but I wouldn't be ready to say that they gave up more scoring chances. You can slap a puck in the goalie's chest from 30 feet out 100 times in a game, none of those shots will be considered scoring chances though.
Either that... Or you can take a really weak shot from 30 feet away, that never actually leaves the ice and this will be counted as a shot.

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09-19-2013, 03:17 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
He was in every possible measurable metric and it wasn't particularly close.
Then, St-Louis is the best player in the league and Jiri Tlustly is the 3rd best goal scorer in the league, because in every possible measurable metric, he was the 3rd best.

Also, the best goalies in the league would be : Anderson, Emery, Crawford, Bernier and Robin Lehner

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09-19-2013, 03:23 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Then, St-Louis is the best player in the league and Jiri Tlustly is the 3rd best goal scorer in the league, because in every possible measurable metric, he was the 3rd best.

Also, the best goalies in the league would be : Anderson, Emery, Crawford, Bernier and Robin Lehner
Wow. Talk about straw man.

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09-19-2013, 03:25 PM
  #247
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Can't disagree with Crosby- Carey's a stud

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09-19-2013, 03:28 PM
  #248
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Wow. Talk about straw man.
How is that a straw man
To make a straw man, I need to actually try to refute his argument, I'm not trying to refute anything, I'm actually asking an informal question. I'm using the Socratic method.

He claimed that Reimer was better than Price, because he had better stats. Isn't that what I just did ? I took the highest rated scorers and goaltenders in the league.(Two of which are actually on the SAME TEAM., which reinforce the good team argument.)

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09-19-2013, 03:31 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
The media overwhelmingly over hypes Price, not the other way around. You showed your bias with your very first sentence, you're trying to appeal to authority here. It doesn't work and how the hell would you know how many games Crosby watches?

You sure you didn't try to frame this post in a manner that supports your own opinion
RDS/JdM does not hype Price. Maybe Melnick at TSN 690 does (I believe he would be alone with that opinion at 690). Who has the bigger listenership and influences more of people's thoughts?

My bias is definitely anti-myopic guys like the Anti-Chambre, Rejean Tremblay types, I will not try to hide that. I value people who watch all other teams, not just the Habs. I wasn't trying to seem unopinionated.

When you only watch one team, and evaluate everything through that, you lack any objectivity.

I often find myself defending the common opinions about Price, and the worst part is that he is not the type of goaltender I like most. I like guys who are active in their nets, aggressive (like Thomas), where Price is the positional, "let the puck hit you", calm approach. It is efficient, but not entertaining to me.

But in the end, he is a top ten goalie in the NHL. On the shortlist for the Olympic team, repeat all star, Crosby's pick. There is no conspiracy theory here. All those hockey minds have opinions divorced of emotion, and based on hockey. Not eye rolling and (not so) secretly pining for the glory of the Halak experience.

Even if Price was as bad as all these local so-called experts say he is, who is ready to take his place? Which new young star will the very same people will burn within a year? No upside that I can see.

So, if there is no upside in the anti-Price bandwagon, is the fun of watching the Habs simply *****ing about Price?

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09-19-2013, 03:39 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
To be honest, its not about valuing opinion, it's about (like you mentioned) making one for yourself.
The problem is that many of the folks that you are saying make their own opinion, well, they seem to simply parrot RDS.

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