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Crosby proclaims Price the best goalie in the league.

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Old
09-19-2013, 07:10 PM
  #276
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
We also know that goalies aren't facing enough 100 mph slap shots from 15 feet out to outweigh the vast majority of shots from the slot which probably clock much closer to half of that. So while I'm sure you're technically correct not just in theory, but also in practice, players are also typically pressured far more (and less prepared) on shots from close in and are thus a) less likely to see the actual space(s) available to them (let alone have time to evaluate which one makes the best target), b) take the time to aim directly at a selected spot, and c) generate the same speed on their shots that we see at all-star weekend skills competitions.
So, to you the same shot taken from the blue line that is deflected is more dangerous than the same shot taken in the slot ?

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09-19-2013, 07:10 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
So, to you the same shot taken from the blue line that is deflected is more dangerous than the same shot taken in the slot ?
My point is that the "same shot" wouldn't be taken in the slot. I've seen the heat spread diagrams showing where all the goals in the NHL are scored from, so I know where the "prime" scoring areas are, but we're talking about whether or not facing a lot of shots can be a good thing or not depending on what "kind" of shots they are. I'm pretty sure coaches would prefer to face fewer shots - period - because goals can, and are, manufactured from just about everywhere in the offensive zone. You can watch a game between two specific teams and make an eye test assessment of how many of each fell into whichever category, but "in general" there are just too many teams with varied zone entry/forechecking strategies, varied personnel, varied situations. I can't find my link to the most recent example I've read, but look at the sheer volume of blue marks on this random sample of 100 NHL games from '10/11. We'd all agree that the green cluster represent "more dangerous" shots, but how many of them were actually tipped/deflected point shots, I wonder (conversely, how many blue ones are empty net, I suppose)? I think it's obvious that you'll lose games if you don't shut down the outside shots adequately, as well. Shots against is always a bad thing, even if statistics can show in hindsight that your team, specifically, handled them efficiently.



edit: here's the '12/13 heat map for those interested:


Last edited by Ohashi_Jouzu: 09-20-2013 at 08:33 AM.
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09-19-2013, 07:20 PM
  #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
We also know that goalies aren't facing enough 100 mph slap shots from 15 feet out to outweigh the vast majority of shots from the slot which probably clock much closer to half of that. So while I'm sure you're technically correct not just in theory, but also in practice, players are also typically pressured far more (and less prepared) on shots from close in and are thus a) less likely to see the actual space(s) available to them (let alone have time to evaluate which one makes the best target), b) take the time to aim directly at a selected spot, and c) generate the same speed on their shots that we see at all-star weekend skills competitions.

As a fun thing you can do for yourself watching games, watch point shots through traffic versus shots from closer in through traffic, and notice which ones turn into tips/deflections and which ones more often just get knocked down/stopped dead along the way. Loaded up shots from farther out can easily be "more dangerous" (depending on the shooter) than rushed shots from much closer for a variety of reasons.
Speaking from my playing experience. I am always comfortable when someone is trying to take a shot from further out. Granted, no one is cranking a Chara shot from back there.

The point of the whole discussion really boils down to that shots for/against is no where near a good enough metric to determine whether or not one team is better than another offensively or defensively. It only tells us that one team gives up more shots than another during a season.

Until you have a definition of a scoring chance, which, as the discussion implies now, is greatly varied depending on what criteria you choose, you can't really have a comparison of two teams defensively.

An unscreened shot from the point, no matter how hard, I don't think is a legitimate scoring chance. However, any shot from the point that is screened and tipped, can be, as you said, dangerous. However, not every tip is dangerous, some actually take a shot away from the net, some barely change the flight pattern at all.

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09-19-2013, 07:22 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Speaking from my playing experience. I am always comfortable when someone is trying to take a shot from further out. Granted, no one is cranking a Chara shot from back there.

The point of the whole discussion really boils down to that shots for/against is no where near a good enough metric to determine whether or not one team is better than another offensively or defensively. It only tells us that one team gives up more shots than another during a season.

Until you have a definition of a scoring chance, which, as the discussion implies now, is greatly varied depending on what criteria you choose, you can't really have a comparison of two teams defensively.

An unscreened shot from the point, no matter how hard, I don't think is a legitimate scoring chance. However, any shot from the point that is screened and tipped, can be, as you said, dangerous. However, not every tip is dangerous, some actually take a shot away from the net, some barely change the flight pattern at all.
If you're going to look at and compare goaltenders, save percentage is the best stat with which to do it. But stats are not the be all and end all of everything. Cam Ward is a perfect example of that.

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09-19-2013, 07:37 PM
  #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
My point is that the "same shot" wouldn't be taken in the slot. I've seen the heat spread diagrams showing where all the goals in the NHL are scored from, so I know where the "prime" scoring areas are, but we're talking about whether or not facing a lot of shots can be a good thing or not depending on what "kind" of shots they are. I'm pretty sure coaches would prefer to face fewer shots - period - because goals can, and are, manufactured from just about everywhere in the offensive zone. You can watch a game between two specific teams and make an eye test assessment of how many of each fell into whichever category, but "in general" there are just too many teams with varied zone entry/forechecking strategies, varied personnel, varied situations. I can't find my link to the most recent example I've read, but look at the sheer volume of blue marks on this random sample of 100 NHL games from '10/11. We'd all agree that the green cluster represent "more dangerous" shots, but how many of them were actually tipped/deflected point shots, I wonder (conversely, how many blue ones are empty net, I suppose)? I think it's obvious that you'll lose games if you don't shut down the outside shots adequately, as well. Shots against is always a bad thing, even if statistics can show in hindsight that your team, specifically, handled them efficiently.

I think were just beating around the bush and not actually answering to what matters with all that exercise. We all know that all shots are not equal and we all know that SA/SF are not a good statistic to evaluate a defense. Only Goal accorded should be taken into account.

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09-19-2013, 07:49 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
I think were just beating around the bush and not actually answering to what matters with all that exercise. We all know that all shots are not equal and we all know that SA/SF are not a good statistic to evaluate a defense. Only Goal accorded should be taken into account.
Oh, not at all. I have no problem labeling a team that averages more shots on goal per game than everyone else as "more offensive", and a team that allows the fewest shots against as "more defensive". Plenty of leeway to flesh out a case one way or another for a particular team/coach/whatever, but given how good of a job SV% does at ranking goalies, and that SV% is just another way of presenting SA, I don't see the issue with it as a statistic.

Defenses actively prevent shots from everywhere in the defensive zone, regardless of whatever the prevailing "strategy" looks like to us in action, and what works in limiting shots against one team might not be nearly as effective against the group you face on the next night anyway.

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09-19-2013, 07:50 PM
  #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
If you're going to look at and compare goaltenders, save percentage is the best stat with which to do it. But stats are not the be all and end all of everything. Cam Ward is a perfect example of that.
But it isn't.. really goalie stats are awful.. but yes, save percentage is usually the best stat metric we have for a goalie..

Which isn't saying much.

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09-19-2013, 08:00 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Oh, not at all. I have no problem labeling a team that averages more shots on goal per game than everyone else as "more offensive", and a team that allows the fewest shots against as "more defensive". Plenty of leeway to flesh out a case one way or another for a particular team/coach/whatever, but given how good of a job SV% does at ranking goalies, and that SV% is just another way of presenting SA, I don't see the issue with it as a statistic.

Defenses actively prevent shots from everywhere in the defensive zone, regardless of whatever the prevailing "strategy" looks like to us in action, and what works in limiting shots against one team might not be nearly as effective against the group you face on the next night anyway.

Then would you say Chicago is defensive or offensive ?

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09-19-2013, 08:01 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
But it isn't.. really goalie stats are awful.. but yes, save percentage is usually the best stat metric we have for a goalie..

Which isn't saying much.
I actually think save percentage is a pretty good stat. But it's like everything in hockey, you can't just look at it in a vacuum. Esp with goalies because more than any other position the stats can really have huge swings depending on the team in front of them.

Brian Elliot is a really good example of this. When Ken Hitchcock takes over a team that goalie's stats usually take a nice bump. Mason, Elliot, Halak... that's not coincidence. The D in front of a goalie makes a huge difference.

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09-19-2013, 08:05 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I actually think save percentage is a pretty good stat. But it's like everything in hockey, you can't just look at it in a vacuum. Esp with goalies because more than any other position the stats can really have huge swings depending on the team in front of them.

Brian Elliot is a really good example of this. When Ken Hitchcock takes over a team that goalie's stats usually take a nice bump. Mason, Elliot, Halak... that's not coincidence. The D in front of a goalie makes a huge difference.
It's not a really good stat at all... The point that me and WTK are trying to make is that sv% doesnt take on-ice action into action, so you can't judge performance based on that.

It's like if someone won the rocket-richard with 50 empty netters... Does he deserve it ?

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09-19-2013, 08:16 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I'd like to know which, in your opinion, blueline sucks so that we could compare the goalies that plays behind such a bad defensive core. Again, it makes me laugh when I keep hearing almost as if Lundqvist, Rask, and everybody else have no merit as they are suppose to be playing behind such a great defensive squad or a great defensive team, and yet, I've never how Dubnyk is surely the best goalie in the league based on how increidbly bad hsi team is in front of him....So let's not talk about those great goalies 'cause they have no merit, and for everybody else who plays with bad team, let's not talk about them either 'cause they just plain suck because...they suck (based on their numbers, which has to reflect how bad the team they are playing in are but we're not going to remember that)....So it leaves Price as the greatest I guess......
Since most agree that Rinne is one of the best goaltenders in the league, how do you explain his "bad stats" from last year? He had an off year or the team in front of him is just not good enough?

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09-19-2013, 08:38 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I actually think save percentage is a pretty good stat. But it's like everything in hockey, you can't just look at it in a vacuum. Esp with goalies because more than any other position the stats can really have huge swings depending on the team in front of them.

Brian Elliot is a really good example of this. When Ken Hitchcock takes over a team that goalie's stats usually take a nice bump. Mason, Elliot, Halak... that's not coincidence. The D in front of a goalie makes a huge difference.
And its not all about the D core, fowards play an important role these days inside a solid defensive system, thats about the global structure goaltenders have in front of them.. Bruins for example are playing so tight, so disciplined, they are extremmely tough to play against, they are big tough, they give very few quality scoring chances per game, they basically never make costly mistakes, no turnovers, the way they control the neutral zone is something to see.. Even their backup goalie have incredible stats.. While I think Rask is already one of the best goaltenders in the league, he still has an amazing hockey machine playing in front of him, put Price under a such structure and he will shine, thats all I am saying.

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09-19-2013, 08:41 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
It's not a really good stat at all... The point that me and WTK are trying to make is that sv% doesnt take on-ice action into action, so you can't judge performance based on that.

It's like if someone won the rocket-richard with 50 empty netters... Does he deserve it ?
It definitely has limitations. It's just the best stat we've got for netminders... It's definitely a stat that needs context. I had several debates in the past with Mathman on this subject. I think stats have their place but hockey is a much more fluid game than a stat driven game like baseball is. A pitcher for example has a defense behind him but it's going to make far less of a difference than it will in hockey. A pitcher's stats actually do a very good job of capturing just how good he really is. In hockey it's not so simple...
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
Since most agree that Rinne is one of the best goaltenders in the league, how do you explain his "bad stats" from last year? He had an off year or the team in front of him is just not good enough?
Losing Suter didn't help for sure. Don't know how much that had to do with it but it's interesting that his off year comes after Suter leaves.


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09-19-2013, 08:48 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
It definitely has limitations. It's just the best stat we've got for netminders... It's definitely a stat that needs context. I had several debates in the past with Mathman on this subject.

Losing Suter didn't help for sure. Don't know how much that had to do with it but it's interesting that his off year comes after Suter leaves.
Indeed, they lost a pretty big piece of their blueline.. They were already pretty weak up front..

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09-19-2013, 09:37 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Staal is pretty solid defensively too. The Rangers blueline has suddenly become one of the best defensive units in the league. I wouldn't have said that a few years ago but it's a pretty good group now.
Staal is is equal defensively when not injured. McD is better O.

Their D and Lundqvist are the equal of any NHL team. They fall short on O. However, if Brassard is about to blossom and they can get meaningful growth out of another forward, they will contend this season.

Edit: On second thought, the Rangers D has to improve offensively in order to be a top unit.

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09-19-2013, 10:06 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
It definitely has limitations. It's just the best stat we've got for netminders... It's definitely a stat that needs context. I had several debates in the past with Mathman on this subject. I think stats have their place but hockey is a much more fluid game than a stat driven game like baseball is. A pitcher for example has a defense behind him but it's going to make far less of a difference than it will in hockey. A pitcher's stats actually do a very good job of capturing just how good he really is. In hockey it's not so simple...

Losing Suter didn't help for sure. Don't know how much that had to do with it but it's interesting that his off year comes after Suter leaves.
Actually, Roman Josi has pretty much replaced the production and play of Suter. Really solid. The rest of the squad was pretty much underwhelming, and the fact that Josi got bumped up but no one replaced him...

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09-20-2013, 05:24 AM
  #292
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Not surprising, Carey Price, despite what his detractors say, is a great goalie

But apparently, being a great goalie means you have to be perfect every night and you can't have slumps and you also have to be able to carry very average teams to the Stanley Cup every single year

Carey Price is entering the prime of his career, which is odd to say since it seems like he's been at it so long. This is the point in his career where he should logically be taking the next step. He's got all the physical and technical attributes, and considering what he's gone through in MTL, I think the mental part of his game is reaching it's apex as well.

Playing goalie for the Montreal Canadiens is literally the toughest job in hockey, it doesn't matter if it's Price, Fucale, Theo, Thibault, Huet, etc...

The expectation, regardless of how good/bad this team is, will always be for the goalie of this team to be perfect.

Tough job for anyone, but especially when you're 21-22...at his age now, with his experience..i'm sure we'll see him take the next step this year
I agree on everything you said right there. Being the number one goaltender of the Montreal Canadiens is really the toughest job in the league. I still remember when the crowd howled Carey Price in the 2008-2009 playoffs and in the first pre-season game of the 2010-2011 season, I'm surprised he didn't pull a Roy and ask for a trade. We definitely got the best and the worst fans in the NHL. That being said, I never lost faith in Carey Price.

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09-20-2013, 05:48 AM
  #293
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
Since most agree that Rinne is one of the best goaltenders in the league, how do you explain his "bad stats" from last year? He had an off year or the team in front of him is just not good enough?
He had an off year mostly because of the injury he had to play with all year long.

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09-20-2013, 06:04 AM
  #294
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
He had an off year mostly because of the injury he had to play with all year long.
If it was a full season, he never would've started right out of the gate.

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09-20-2013, 06:22 AM
  #295
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Okay...

Toronto was 28th for Shots for in the league...
Yet 6th for Goals for in the league...
Ottawa 23rd for shots against in the league (7th worst)
Yet 2nd in Goals Against..
Dallas 11th for Goals for in the league.. yet they had the 29th fewest shots per game..

You can try to bend your stats all you want.. stats will never and can never tell the whole story about a game, a series, or an entire season. Law of averages do dictate that if you shoot more, you should score more yet law of averages also dictates if you are always shooting from a prime scoring area, you will need less shots to score.

It's crazy how this eludes you.
Did you just pick out two exceptions and then argue your point based around this and then tell me I don't know what I am talking about .

The problem with your post is that no team is always shooting from a prime shooting area. It's a false narrative.

I'm not bending anything, you have an idea that "Carey Price is a top 5 goalie", so you will go out of your way to defend the results or twist facts to support your arguments.

There are zero teams always shooting from prime shooting areas, likewise there are zero teams always shooting from the perimeter. You don't understand the numbers or what your're talking about, that's OK.

If our Defense is so bad that Price can't be expected to post a SV % north of .905, then what defenses are good? Why are we paying a goalie 6.5 million a year if he is completely relying upon a stellar defense to get good results? There is no logic on earth that could call the habs defensively poor last season.

We have weaknesses like each and every club, crease clearers ect, but the fact that we gave up the 5th fewest shots proves that those areas of concern a minor and don't wash away all the good that happened. Defense, isn't getting stuck in your own zone and getting down on one leg like Hal Gill and Gorges to an extent, a good defense also involves transitioning the puck out of your own end, the habs have that in spades.

We have a Norris trophy winner who is dynamite skating the puck out, a former Norris candidate who probably has the best first pass in the NHL, then we have Diaz who is good in both skating/passing, and Boullion as a 6th dman who is quite adequate as well. Emelin was also very good, the only problems back there moving the puck is Gorges/Drewiske.

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09-20-2013, 06:41 AM
  #296
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Did you just pick out two exceptions and then argue your point based around this and then tell me I don't know what I am talking about .

The problem with your post is that no team is always shooting from a prime shooting area. It's a false narrative.

I'm not bending anything, you have an idea that "Carey Price is a top 5 goalie", so you will go out of your way to defend the results or twist facts to support your arguments.

There are zero teams always shooting from prime shooting areas, likewise there are zero teams always shooting from the perimeter. You don't understand the numbers or what your're talking about, that's OK.

If our Defense is so bad that Price can't be expected to post a SV % north of .905, then what defenses are good? Why are we paying a goalie 6.5 million a year if he is completely relying upon a stellar defense to get good results? There is no logic on earth that could call the habs defensively poor last season.

We have weaknesses like each and every club, crease clearers ect, but the fact that we gave up the 5th fewest shots proves that those areas of concern a minor and don't wash away all the good that happened. Defense, isn't getting stuck in your own zone and getting down on one leg like Hal Gill and Gorges to an extent, a good defense also involves transitioning the puck out of your own end, the habs have that in spades.

We have a Norris trophy winner who is dynamite skating the puck out, a former Norris candidate who probably has the best first pass in the NHL, then we have Diaz who is good in both skating/passing, and Boullion as a 6th dman who is quite adequate as well. Emelin was also very good, the only problems back there moving the puck is Gorges/Drewiske.
No, no team is always shooting from the perimeter and no team is always shooting from price scoring areas.

Just like no team with a lot of shots per game is always getting a lot of scoring chances.

You are answering your own debate. Stats cannot tell the whole story because they can only make assumptions but none of them are true unless you juxtapose them with actual footage of the game.

Let's use this game as an example once more: http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/con...20122013,2,626

First goal. Simmonds is allowed to skate right at Price, force Price to make a pad save (which generates a rebound), the Habs defense is lagging behind the play, meaning they are pushing players toward the net rather than away from it, it hits a player and causes a goal against.

Second goal. Price makes a save from the slot, puck goes back to the point, players in front of the net are incapable of moving the screen, Price lets in a shot that he should have saved but it was through traffic.

Price makes a breakaway save on Voracek (Look at the ATROCIOUS penalty killing that is doing nothing to PROTECT THE SLOT. He just goes right through which, if you look at the NJ game, happens with Elias.. all too often we gave up the middle on the PK.)

Another breakaway save by Price.

Third goal: Gorges fans on the puck, one-timer out in the slot.. 3-2.

A third breakaway save by Price.

Fourth goal: Once again leave the middle of the ice open, one-timer from the slot.

Fifth goal: Price makes a save.. the defense follows to the side boards, opening up the slot, rebound goes into the net.

Sixth goal: Cross-seam pass through our atrocious Penalty Kill, tipped into the side of the net.

The Flyers managed 21 shots on goal in this game.

Yet, Price makes 3 breakaway saves.. and 5 of the 6 goals against him were pretty difficult saves to make. Ones that you'd never blame your goalie for letting in.. So we've already accounted for near half the total of shots for the Flyers in the game, especially when you consider a few of them came off control of rebounds that our D was never in position to defend.

This is just one example of a game that makes Price look bad, but when you get into the actual gameplay, you see that the Flyers didn't take much shots, because they didn't need to, because they scored on almost all of their chances since their chances were always in prime scoring areas.

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09-20-2013, 06:52 AM
  #297
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Those posts are way too long for a Friday morning... What are you machines ?

on a more serious note , it's crazy how many shots we gave from the slots.

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09-20-2013, 08:12 AM
  #298
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Did you just pick out two exceptions and then argue your point based around this and then tell me I don't know what I am talking about .

The problem with your post is that no team is always shooting from a prime shooting area. It's a false narrative.

I'm not bending anything, you have an idea that "Carey Price is a top 5 goalie", so you will go out of your way to defend the results or twist facts to support your arguments.

There are zero teams always shooting from prime shooting areas, likewise there are zero teams always shooting from the perimeter. You don't understand the numbers or what your're talking about, that's OK.

If our Defense is so bad that Price can't be expected to post a SV % north of .905, then what defenses are good? Why are we paying a goalie 6.5 million a year if he is completely relying upon a stellar defense to get good results? There is no logic on earth that could call the habs defensively poor last season.

We have weaknesses like each and every club, crease clearers ect, but the fact that we gave up the 5th fewest shots proves that those areas of concern a minor and don't wash away all the good that happened. Defense, isn't getting stuck in your own zone and getting down on one leg like Hal Gill and Gorges to an extent, a good defense also involves transitioning the puck out of your own end, the habs have that in spades.
There's no doubt that Price has to be better than he was at the end of last year. He wasn't good. That's not all on the D. But keep in mind it was a shortened year. A five game slump will kill your stats a lot more than it would in a regular season. And while I do think there was some coincidence with Price having terrible numbers after Emelin went down, I don't think it was ALL coincidental.

He played great for most of the season and then sucked. He's got to be better and I don't have a problem with anyone saying this. What I am saying though is that our GM did diddly **** to help the situation. We really need a shutdown guy and we don't really have one. Murray, Tinordi... we're rolling the dice.
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
We have a Norris trophy winner who is dynamite skating the puck out, a former Norris candidate who probably has the best first pass in the NHL, then we have Diaz who is good in both skating/passing, and Boullion as a 6th dman who is quite adequate as well. Emelin was also very good, the only problems back there moving the puck is Gorges/Drewiske.
Markov and Diaz are offensive guys. The rest are also rans. Gorges is supposed to be good but he sucked last year and that hurt too.

Subban is really the only top flight defender we have. And for whatever reason, our coach decided not to use him nearly enough nor was he used on the PK. It's a very, very weak defensive group. And nobody out of this group is particularly good at clearing the net which is where we really need the help. God help us if Tinordi can't step in or if Gorges plays like he did last season. That group sucks defensively man, please don't sit there and tell us how Markov and Diaz are going to provide the kind of protection we're talking about because they won't.

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09-20-2013, 08:19 AM
  #299
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
No, no team is always shooting from the perimeter and no team is always shooting from price scoring areas.

Just like no team with a lot of shots per game is always getting a lot of scoring chances.

You are answering your own debate. Stats cannot tell the whole story because they can only make assumptions but none of them are true unless you juxtapose them with actual footage of the game.

Let's use this game as an example once more: http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/con...20122013,2,626

First goal. Simmonds is allowed to skate right at Price, force Price to make a pad save (which generates a rebound), the Habs defense is lagging behind the play, meaning they are pushing players toward the net rather than away from it, it hits a player and causes a goal against.

Second goal. Price makes a save from the slot, puck goes back to the point, players in front of the net are incapable of moving the screen, Price lets in a shot that he should have saved but it was through traffic.

Price makes a breakaway save on Voracek (Look at the ATROCIOUS penalty killing that is doing nothing to PROTECT THE SLOT. He just goes right through which, if you look at the NJ game, happens with Elias.. all too often we gave up the middle on the PK.)

Another breakaway save by Price.

Third goal: Gorges fans on the puck, one-timer out in the slot.. 3-2.

A third breakaway save by Price.

Fourth goal: Once again leave the middle of the ice open, one-timer from the slot.

Fifth goal: Price makes a save.. the defense follows to the side boards, opening up the slot, rebound goes into the net.

Sixth goal: Cross-seam pass through our atrocious Penalty Kill, tipped into the side of the net.

The Flyers managed 21 shots on goal in this game.

Yet, Price makes 3 breakaway saves.. and 5 of the 6 goals against him were pretty difficult saves to make. Ones that you'd never blame your goalie for letting in.. So we've already accounted for near half the total of shots for the Flyers in the game, especially when you consider a few of them came off control of rebounds that our D was never in position to defend.

This is just one example of a game that makes Price look bad, but when you get into the actual gameplay, you see that the Flyers didn't take much shots, because they didn't need to, because they scored on almost all of their chances since their chances were always in prime scoring areas.
Wasn't this the game right after the Leaf blowup? I remember people hammering Price and he wasn't all that bad. Same thing happened in the playoffs. He held us in against Ottawa (maybe it was game four or five) for a few periods and then the floodgates open. It's viewed as Price's failure but the reality is that we throw him to the wolves.

It's not that hard of a fix either. Get a big number four guy who can clear the net and play him in defensive situations. It's not rocket science. I have no idea why we didn't do that this year. Instead we get Murray and hope for the best.... doesn't make any sense to me at all, esp when you're sitting there hoping to get more out of your goalie.

I won't bother talking about the forward situation because I've already talked at length on the Briere fiasco.

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Old
09-20-2013, 08:42 AM
  #300
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Then would you say Chicago is defensive or offensive ?
Both, obviously, i.e. one of (if not) the best 2-way team(s) in the league. I would have concluded the same thing, though, based just on the fact that they scored the 2nd most goals in the league while allowing the fewest. Bringing it back around to the SF/SA side, they took the 5th most shots and allowed the 4th fewest shots in the league along the way, so...

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