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Derek Stepan Negotiations (9/19-Dreger: "Unlikely" Stepan signs before season opens)

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Old
09-19-2013, 09:23 PM
  #751
Lundsanity30
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why do people continue to think Richards not being bought out has any bearing on Stepan? Rangers just dont want to pay him what hes asking for, thats it

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09-19-2013, 10:10 PM
  #752
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
why do people continue to think Richards not being bought out has any bearing on Stepan? Rangers just dont want to pay him what hes asking for, thats it
Perhaps they didn't buy out Richards because they were worried about getting Stepan signed?

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09-19-2013, 10:13 PM
  #753
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Except that it is a factor.

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09-19-2013, 10:14 PM
  #754
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Except that it is a factor.
How so?

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Old
09-19-2013, 10:18 PM
  #755
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Limited in how much they can spend. Assume the case of no cap they would not care so much if they slightly overpaid him since it would have no effect on anything else. (See Holik, Kasparaitis, Lindros etc..lots of guys we signed pre the 04-05 lockout) Dolan is willing to spend whatever it's not like we have a self imposed cap. Even though we can open up a little bit of room now by sending guys to the minors Sather and co. still don't want to get that close to the cap now that will make it hard for us to make midseason acquisitions. By having only 2.2M (pre sending guys to the minors) compared to 9M or so they are forced to be more selective since they want to keep flexibility to make other moves this year and in later years.

I don't think it's the main reason but it definitely is a factor.

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09-19-2013, 10:24 PM
  #756
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The cap situation is being blown way out of proportion. Two of Pyatt, Asham, Powe won't be on this team, add that to the 2.2m they currently have and the fact that they can still spend 10% above the cap as long as they're compliant by opening day and the only reason Stepan hasn't signed is the inability of the two sides to agree on a deal.

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09-19-2013, 10:29 PM
  #757
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You did not read my post. It's not about just fitting him in. It's about fitting him in and trying to leave some room to maneuver midseason. If our cap hits this year = cap then we cannot make any moves midseason without shedding salary first. Every little bit helps here. And the 10% doesn't really mean anything at this point as that's only for the next two weeks anyway. Obviously that extra amount we need will be gained by getting rid of Powe/Asham/maybe Pyatt.

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09-19-2013, 10:37 PM
  #758
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Originally Posted by SA16 View Post
You did not read my post. It's not about just fitting him in. It's about fitting him in and trying to leave some room to maneuver midseason. If our cap hits this year = cap then we cannot make any moves midseason without shedding salary first. Every little bit helps here. And the 10% doesn't really mean anything at this point as that's only for the next two weeks anyway. Obviously that extra amount we need will be gained by getting rid of Powe/Asham/maybe Pyatt.
Yes, but they wouldn't be hitting the cap if they shed the salaries of players that won't be on the team, and the 10% matters because essentially Stepan can sign immediately and within the next two weeks those players are moved.

They can sign him, shed those salaries and have 1-2m in cap, any moves they make mid season will probably involve a contract being moved as well so that is a moot point.

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09-19-2013, 10:40 PM
  #759
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Yea but they could also sign him and send those two guys to the minors right away so it really makes little difference. And they won't be hitting the cap either way but it's best to try and leave as much room as possible when it's tight. The difference from say 500k cap room to 1M cap room is much larger than the difference between say 5M to 6M in terms of how you can use it during a season.

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09-19-2013, 10:43 PM
  #760
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Mid season to trade deadline (depending on when you do the deal) is pro-rated. But the rangers still want as much space before they hit the deadline.

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09-19-2013, 10:45 PM
  #761
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Yes, but it's going to be over 1m and as you say leaving the most possible is best. Which is why they are playing hard ball.

My post wasn't directed at you personally, but there are a lot of people who think we can't afford to sign him because Sather sucks.

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09-19-2013, 11:09 PM
  #762
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Yes, but it's going to be over 1m and as you say leaving the most possible is best. Which is why they are playing hard ball.

My post wasn't directed at you personally, but there are a lot of people who think we can't afford to sign him because Sather sucks.
No offense taken. I know you weren't directing it at me. I was just adding to what you said in agreement.

I'm not mad at either side. Its a frustrating process but thats part of the business. People don't understand that. Sather has to win every dollar and cent he can out of this deal. Richards contract has nothing to do with this situation. Sather paid Richards to what the market (other interested teams) were willing to pay. The Rangers desperately needed a #1 center. Whether he has lived up to that or not is still up for debate. Hindsight is 20/20. I believe it was LAK or CGY or both. Sather got him for less. Sather and company are negotiating based on comparable bridge deals with guys like Couture, Kadri, and Duchene. They know what their max is they would be willing to pay, but when you are a GM you don't to just give the max up front. You negotiate as far from the max as possible and call it a day. Stepan has no leverage. No arb rights. They know he likes NY. They know his college buddy, McDonagh is here. They have fellow Americans here that he has played with through international play. It is a comfort zone he cant get anywhere else.

Its business. Criticize Sather all you want, but he is handling this the right way.

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09-19-2013, 11:22 PM
  #763
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
75% of the team are free agents after this season.

Sather took a team that finished 1st in the east, and completely revamped the forward lineup - twice.

The notion of having a window to compete assumes that the roster will stay relatively consistent. When has that happened under Sather?
The most important part of our competitiveness, AKA Lundqvist has stayed the same.

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09-19-2013, 11:23 PM
  #764
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If the Rangers had 50 million dollars in cap space left to spend, this would still be happening.

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09-19-2013, 11:42 PM
  #765
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Originally Posted by SA16 View Post
Limited in how much they can spend. Assume the case of no cap they would not care so much if they slightly overpaid him since it would have no effect on anything else. (See Holik, Kasparaitis, Lindros etc..lots of guys we signed pre the 04-05 lockout) Dolan is willing to spend whatever it's not like we have a self imposed cap. Even though we can open up a little bit of room now by sending guys to the minors Sather and co. still don't want to get that close to the cap now that will make it hard for us to make midseason acquisitions. By having only 2.2M (pre sending guys to the minors) compared to 9M or so they are forced to be more selective since they want to keep flexibility to make other moves this year and in later years.

I don't think it's the main reason but it definitely is a factor.
The Rangers have had less cap space than $1m at the start of the season and been just fine plenty of times.

The cap situation has zero, and I mean zero, to do with Sather's negotiating position. Buyout Richards or don't buyout Richards, and we end up exactly where we are today. With no cap, of course it wouldn't matter how much we paid him. But who cares about that reality? Sather doesn't spend hard on 2nd contracts for forwards. Ever. It's not about our cap situation today or for this season. It's about Sather's organizational philosophy.

All of that being said, $3.5m isn't really an unreasonable number, so I'm frustrated that we're sitting where we are.

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Old
09-20-2013, 03:36 AM
  #766
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Dreger's become a shill. Sad really, he used to be really informative with the likes of Bobby Mac.

I'm willing to wager the Stepan camp leaked that little bit to Dreger to turn up the heat on the Rangers FO. It's nothing but posturing, but it's getting to be danger close to the start of the season. Posturing at this point in negotiations is bush league. The difference is 500K a year? Meet in the middle and backload the deal. It's not too difficult.

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09-20-2013, 05:00 AM
  #767
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Dreger's become a shill. Sad really, he used to be really informative with the likes of Bobby Mac.

I'm willing to wager the Stepan camp leaked that little bit to Dreger to turn up the heat on the Rangers FO. It's nothing but posturing, but it's getting to be danger close to the start of the season. Posturing at this point in negotiations is bush league. The difference is 500K a year? Meet in the middle and backload the deal. It's not too difficult.
The rangers already won this battle. He is willing to sign the bridge deal.
He could use all the other players that have been given the long term committment from the team to the players they value. Nugent hopkins is another example of this. The rangers on the other hand play the game this way. Which I am not saying is right or wrong but I really feel he will make them pay in 2 years for the treatment he is receiving from management right now. 6 years at 30 should be the play here... but because they kept Richards that is not doable.
Give him the 3.5 and get it done. and in 2 years when the deal comes up he will get 50 over 6 and everyone on this board will go crazy because he didnt get locked up for a managable price today. Go look at the players who are 21 over the last 10 years and run the numbers hes in a elite group. Plus he is was groomed by torts to be a very good 2way player. He was a 1st or 2nd unit pk guy last year as well.
Too me they are blowing it here and it will come back to bite us in the ass in 2 years...

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Old
09-20-2013, 06:28 AM
  #768
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Originally Posted by Gardner McKay View Post
The most important part of our competitiveness, AKA Lundqvist has stayed the same.
All Lundqvist has done has ensured that the Rangers have remains mediocre.

Hank can't score goals which has kept the Rangers from being more than mediocre.

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09-20-2013, 06:37 AM
  #769
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All Lundqvist has done has ensured that the Rangers have remains mediocre.

Hank can't score goals which has kept the Rangers from being more than mediocre.
I would just say our first round drafting has sucked and we can't seem to find any luck with F. FOr example both Gabs and BR falling of a cliff was insanely bad luck.

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09-20-2013, 07:04 AM
  #770
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Originally Posted by Gardner McKay View Post
The most important part of our competitiveness, AKA Lundqvist has stayed the same.
Can he score goals too? Because the last time I checked our craptastic offense has gone to sleep in the playoffs

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09-20-2013, 07:06 AM
  #771
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I would just say our first round drafting has sucked and we can't seem to find any luck with F. FOr example both Gabs and BR falling of a cliff was insanely bad luck.
You can call it bad luck, I'll call it ****** front office management

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09-20-2013, 07:38 AM
  #772
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You can call it bad luck, I'll call it ****** front office management
To be fair to management, I don't think anyone in the world could've predicted that combined abortion Richards and Gaborik were last year. If anything, I thought the lockout was gonna be a godsend in regards to Gaborik's shoulder rehab

I'm gonna try to be as positive with this contract situation as possible. Sure Dreger said it would spill over into the season, but with this kind of **** it could happen at any given time. Hell, I'm pretty sure Kadri and Toronto were "very far apart" hours before he signed

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Old
09-20-2013, 07:55 AM
  #773
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Can he score goals too? Because the last time I checked our craptastic offense has gone to sleep in the playoffs
I said nothing about the offense or playoffs. All I said was lundqvist is the most important part of the team when it comes to remaining competitive. Competitive we have been, and competitive we will remain. Will we win a cup without an improved offense? Highly unlikely. Our offense this year is deeper than it has been in a few years but without lundqvist, it wouldn't matter. I'd argue we could still sneak into the playoffs without Stepan. Not without Lundqvist.

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09-20-2013, 08:42 AM
  #774
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No offense taken. I know you weren't directing it at me. I was just adding to what you said in agreement.

I'm not mad at either side. Its a frustrating process but thats part of the business. People don't understand that. Sather has to win every dollar and cent he can out of this deal. Richards contract has nothing to do with this situation. Sather paid Richards to what the market (other interested teams) were willing to pay. The Rangers desperately needed a #1 center. Whether he has lived up to that or not is still up for debate. Hindsight is 20/20. I believe it was LAK or CGY or both. Sather got him for less. Sather and company are negotiating based on comparable bridge deals with guys like Couture, Kadri, and Duchene. They know what their max is they would be willing to pay, but when you are a GM you don't to just give the max up front. You negotiate as far from the max as possible and call it a day. Stepan has no leverage. No arb rights. They know he likes NY. They know his college buddy, McDonagh is here. They have fellow Americans here that he has played with through international play. It is a comfort zone he cant get anywhere else.

Its business. Criticize Sather all you want, but he is handling this the right way.
Not mad at either side either. They're both within their rights. It's absurd to think that his teammates won't welcome Stepan back when it's finally over like some people think. He's doing what other players in his situation would do. Richards moves into the conversation however because of the nature of his contract and the decline in his play last year. If the Rangers had bought him out we probably wouldn't be arguing about Stepan now because a few hundred thousand of the money saved from his bought out contract would be no big deal. Richards stays in the conversation because even if his play goes back up to the level he played two-three years ago the Rangers are in a situation with the long term ramifications of his contract that they will (or should) probably buy him out next summer anyway--barring injury. It's early but I feel a lot more comfortable with Stepan and Brassard centering scoring lines than I do with Brad. Even putting cap hits aside I'd easily choose both over Richards if one had to go. The emergence of young centers such as Lindberg, Miller etc. should make that decision of buying out Brad even easier.

Stepan is using the leverage he has because not signing is leverage at least if the team struggles. It calls for some sufferance on his own part--true but the Rangers won't have one of their better--arguably their best forward. It may give someone like Lindberg an opportunity and the way Oscar has looked so far there's some reason to believe that his play can mitigate in large part Stepan's absence--having quality replacements already in place could very well work in the Rangers favor to bring this situation to a conclusion.

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Old
09-20-2013, 08:45 AM
  #775
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You can call it bad luck, I'll call it ****** front office management
Gabs and BR falling off a cliff wasn't bad front office management but I agree most of the reason we have been slightly above average at best is b/c of the garbage FO.

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